Who is saying no? Porzingis for Lowry?

[JD45]

I just don't see Lowry having any value to the Mavs. He is 34. The Mavs aren't winning a championship this year. Why trade for a guy that old? He is a much better fit with one of the contending teams. He has been a terrific and underappreciated player throughout his career, but that career is coming to an end.

As much as people talk about KPs injuries, he is still likely got many times more NBA games left in him than Lowry.

[JasonStern]

If Lowry was younger, Mavs take the deal in a second. But he'll be ~40 in Dončić's prime when Dallas will likely be contending, so keeping the 25 year old Porziņģis makes more sense, even if the injury risk is real.

[Texas Chuck]

If Lowry was younger, Mavs take the deal in a second. But he'll be ~40 in Dončić's prime when Dallas will likely be contending, so keeping the 25 year old Porziņģis makes more sense, even if the injury risk is real.

If the Mavs wait 6 years to decide its Luka's prime and its time to start winning Donnie and Fin should be fired and Cuban should sell the team. Who cares if its technically his prime yet, he was 1st team all-NBA last year and he's playing at a similar level this year. He's a top ten player in the league right now. The time to build around him is right now.

Doesn't mean this is the right deal, but Dallas should absolutely be focused on talent more than age. Most players don't stay with one team more than a few years anyway. Just because Luka just turned 22 doesn't mean the whole roster needs to be under 25.

[JasonStern]

If Lowry was younger, Mavs take the deal in a second. But he'll be ~40 in Dončić's prime when Dallas will likely be contending, so keeping the 25 year old Porziņģis makes more sense, even if the injury risk is real.

If the Mavs wait 6 years to decide its Luka's prime and its time to start winning Donnie and Fin should be fired and Cuban should sell the team. Who cares if its technically his prime yet, he was 1st team all-NBA last year and he's playing at a similar level this year. He's a top ten player in the league right now. The time to build around him is right now.

Doesn't mean this is the right deal, but Dallas should absolutely be focused on talent more than age. Most players don't stay with one team more than a few years anyway. Just because Luka just turned 22 doesn't mean the whole roster needs to be under 25.

Understand and agree. But Lowry is a very short-term, win-now piece. And I don't see swapping Porziņģis for Lowry getting the Mavericks past the L.A. teams. Meanwhile, if Porziņģis' health does hold up, he could be a key piece long-term for a potential contender. And if his health doesn't hold up, then you're likely only out a two-year second round playoff run.

[gswhoops]

Yes Porzingis has injury scares but if he didn't Toronto wouldn't get even close to this.

Can go ahead and file this as “true but irrelevant”

Zinger’s injury history is baked into his value. If you’d rather gamble on him staying healthy then trade him for his current value that’s fine, but there’s no sense in pretending it doesn’t exist.

[Laimbeer]

I don't have Zinger as positive value, particularly for the Mavs. Luka and Cuban make for a situation that can possibly attract a major free agent. I'd do this to clear the salary in later years.

[nate33]

Both probably say no IRL. But I would do it as Dallas, but understand I probably think higher of Lowry than anyone else on this board or near as.

Really? It seems pretty short-sighted to me. Lowry turns 35 next month and his production is showing some signs of decline. His FTr is way down, his foul rate is up, and his steals are declining.

I suppose if you view this as taking a mulligan on the Porzingis signing, it can make sense. But the problem is, you have to acquire a replacement before your cap space goes away in 2022 when Luka is off his rookie deal.

[Texas Chuck]

Both probably say no IRL. But I would do it as Dallas, but understand I probably think higher of Lowry than anyone else on this board or near as.

Really? It seems pretty short-sighted to me. Lowry turns 35 next month and his production is showing some signs of decline. His FTr is way down, his foul rate is up, and his steals are declining.

I suppose if you view this as taking a mulligan on the Porzingis signing, it can make sense. But the problem is, you have to acquire a replacement before your cap space goes away in 2022 when Luka is off his rookie deal.

I would be doing this with a pretty strong assurance that Kyle would re-sign if Dallas paid him big for 2 more years. That would be my replacment.

I think his decline is still greatly overstated. I see no reason he won't age gracefully like Paul and Kidd. I just think he's a better player than KP right now. I think he will almost certainly be a better player than KP next year and if he's slightly worse in that 3rd year I'm okay with the benefits the first two years and if need be use his big expiring to flip for another expensive older player--or at that point Dallas has access to most of their picks and can aim higher.

That's where people are landing differently from me. I am higher on Lowry now and moving forward and I think KP's defensive issues offset almost all of what he adds offensively.

[Apz]

I don't have Zinger as positive value, particularly for the Mavs. Luka and Cuban make for a situation that can possibly attract a major free agent. I'd do this to clear the salary in later years.

Kawhi decling his po? Rather have KP over any of the FAs this year. Later years doesnt matter much since luka getting payed. Better to keep kp and try to get 1 more longterm piece beford lukas extension

[JD45]

I think his decline is still greatly overstated. I see no reason he won't age gracefully like Paul and Kidd. I just think he's a better player than KP right now. I think he will almost certainly be a better player than KP next year and if he's slightly worse in that 3rd year I'm okay with the benefits the first two years and if need be use his big expiring to flip for another expensive older player--or at that point Dallas has access to most of their picks and can aim higher.

That's where people are landing differently from me. I am higher on Lowry now and moving forward and I think KP's defensive issues offset almost all of what he adds offensively.

Two issues with that:

1. If it is easy to just flip expiring contracts for an expensive, older but productive player, why don't the Mavs just do that right now? They have several expiring contracts.

2. Brunson is playing the same position as Lowry and at around same level of efficiency, but with less minutes. The Mavs could just try to bump up Brunson's minutes to Lowry's level to see if he could maintain his production instead. And if they did pick up Lowry, part of his production would be offset by what they would lose from Brunson on the bench. On the other hand, take KP away and you replace him with more minutes from WCS and Powell. And can you really imagine the Mavs as a better team with Powell getting 30 minutes a game?

[Texas Chuck]

Two issues with that:

1. If it is easy to just flip expiring contracts for an expensive, older but productive player, why don't the Mavs just do that right now? They have several expiring contracts.

2. Brunson is playing the same position as Lowry and at around same level of efficiency, but with less minutes. The Mavs could just try to bump up Brunson's minutes to Lowry's level to see if he could maintain his production instead. And if they did pick up Lowry, part of his production would be offset by what they would lose from Brunson on the bench. On the other hand, take KP away and you replace him with more minutes from WCS and Powell. And can you really imagine the Mavs as a better team with Powell getting 30 minutes a game?

1. They don't do that right now because FA is still an option or because so many teams aren't sellers. But I'd also not be surprised at all if they did something like that at the deadline. But the flipping should start in earnest once they are over the cap for good whether that's before the trade deadline this year of after this off-season. It was the Dallas way around Dirk and Cuban has been clear he will pay tax around Luka.

2a. Brunson is a good player and he would still play 20 plus minutes. Luka is big and Lowry can guard 2's so there is no issue getting minutes for all three PG's.

2b. I'm not playing Powell/WCS much more. I'm moving Maxi to center, DFS to PF and playing smaller. I'd look to go out and get a cheap center--Whiteside or the like for the rest of the year, but I'm simply taking KP out of the starting lineup and replacing him with Lowry. And I expect to get better defensively for having done so. Probably offensively as well.

[Zan Tabacco]

In addition to the health and defense issue, acquiring porzingis may make us lose Powell to FA (if we want to avoid the tax), so i voted raptors say no

No that's not true. It's probably very close, but they can easily make it under. Can't see Norm making more than $22 million. Even then that's a really high number. He's not getting a bigger deal than Vanvleet from any team. There's still plenty of room to work with in that scenario.

Porzingis 31
Siakam 31
OG 16
FVV 19
Powell 18?
Boucher 7

That is 122M already. 15M to fill out rest of bench? Good luck on that

That's plenty of room to fill out the roster and also nowhere near putting them over the tax like you claimed. You forgot to mention Flynn and the $3 million apron room. They have guys like Bembry & Thomas at under 2 mil, a pick around 2.5 mil, Davis II they could sign for QO @ 2 mil, 1 $5 mil mid level type player and minimum roster charge.

FVV
Powell
Anunoby
Siakam
Porzingis

with Flynn - Davis II - Thomas - Bembry - Boucher - 2021 pick - 5 million

[Godaddycurse]

No that's not true. It's probably very close, but they can easily make it under. Can't see Norm making more than $22 million. Even then that's a really high number. He's not getting a bigger deal than Vanvleet from any team. There's still plenty of room to work with in that scenario.

Porzingis 31
Siakam 31
OG 16
FVV 19
Powell 18?
Boucher 7

That is 122M already. 15M to fill out rest of bench? Good luck on that

That's plenty of room to fill out the roster and also nowhere near putting them over the tax like you claimed. You forgot to mention Flynn and the $3 million apron room. They have guys like Bembry & Thomas at under 2 mil, a pick around 2.5 mil, Davis II they could sign for QO @ 2 mil, 1 $5 mil mid level type player and minimum roster charge.

FVV
Powell
Anunoby
Siakam
Porzingis

with Flynn - Davis II - Thomas - Bembry - Boucher - 2021 pick - 5 million

Davis' QO isn't his actual salary for the year man. he will likely make ~5-9M. what is this apron room you speak of? being above the tax and udner the hard cap means you're still paying lux tax.

[Zan Tabacco]

Porzingis 31
Siakam 31
OG 16
FVV 19
Powell 18?
Boucher 7

That is 122M already. 15M to fill out rest of bench? Good luck on that

That's plenty of room to fill out the roster and also nowhere near putting them over the tax like you claimed. You forgot to mention Flynn and the $3 million apron room. They have guys like Bembry & Thomas at under 2 mil, a pick around 2.5 mil, Davis II they could sign for QO @ 2 mil, 1 $5 mil mid level type player and minimum roster charge.

FVV
Powell
Anunoby
Siakam
Porzingis

with Flynn - Davis II - Thomas - Bembry - Boucher - 2021 pick - 5 million

Davis' QO isn't his actual salary for the year man. he will likely make ~5-9M. what is this apron room you speak of? being above the tax and under the hard cap means you're still paying lux tax.

1. They can offer him the QO and if he accepts he becomes unrestricted the following year. The most they can offer Davis is the mid-level without being below the cap (not tax). If he signs an offer sheet above the mid-level with another team (which I doubt happens) they can work out a S&T for additional assets or match. If they match then they have some room above the tax called the apron room to work with. Is he worth it? Debatable, I don't think he get anywhere near $9 million you threw out there, but who knows. If no other team is signing him to an offer sheet he might just say f*** it and bet on himself the following year as an unrestricted free agent, hence the QO. Maybe they do him a solid and give him a 1 year mid-level deal instead, but I wouldn't. I'd make him take a 3 year mid-level deal or the QO. It's not just a cap hold though like you claim. This is all circumstantial because we don't know if or how much interest there is in him on the open market. The QO could be appealing to a player of his caliber and depending on what options exist for him.

2. Regarding the Apron room, that's right it's is the amount a team can go over the tax without being hard capped. It doesn't give them extra tax room per se, it just demonstrates the ability to go over the tax if need be before further restrictions apply, therefore I thought it was worth mentioning.

Bottom line is this $15 mil is plenty of room to work with for a top tier front office. They can dump Thomas and/or Bembry, they can trade the pick, the can use the mid-level, they can S&T Davis, re-sign him or QO him. The hard part in building a roster is putting together a solid core, not filling out spots 7-12, which the Raps have proven they can do successfully time and time again. If you don't like Porzingis then that's fine, but he wouldn't prevent them from re-signing Powell or preclude them to being a tax paying team either.

[MotownMadness]

I like the swap for both sides actually