Thoughts in General, Rumors, etc 3.0

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Re: Thoughts in General, Rumors, etc 3.0 

Post#241 » by Resistance » Sat Apr 17, 2021 6:05 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:
cl2117 wrote:Poor man's Aaron Gordon at the minimum. I love it. I mean, why not?


How do you think so? They’re almost nothing alike. Gordon’s value lies in defensive potential and athleticism, while Parker has absolutely NO defense, admits he won’t play it, and has little athleticism left with the knee injuries.

If you want a poor mans Aaron Gordon, you’re gonna be disappointed.



Your description appears to be closer to a present day Melo.
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Re: Thoughts in General, Rumors, etc 3.0 

Post#242 » by tmorgan » Sat Apr 17, 2021 6:38 pm

I swear a lot of folks haven’t seen Parker play since college or his first pre-injury stint in the NBA. Dude is legit awful most of the time, despite the not bad looking shooting stats. Can’t play D, can’t pass, can’t stay in shape, can’t even appear to have a good attitude about the game. When *current* Carmelo is what you look like on your *best* day, you suck.
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Re: Thoughts in General, Rumors, etc 3.0 

Post#243 » by cl2117 » Sat Apr 17, 2021 6:42 pm

Resistance wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
cl2117 wrote:Poor man's Aaron Gordon at the minimum. I love it. I mean, why not?


How do you think so? They’re almost nothing alike. Gordon’s value lies in defensive potential and athleticism, while Parker has absolutely NO defense, admits he won’t play it, and has little athleticism left with the knee injuries.

If you want a poor mans Aaron Gordon, you’re gonna be disappointed.



Your description appears to be closer to a present day Melo.

I would also accept that.
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Re: Thoughts in General, Rumors, etc 3.0 

Post#244 » by cl2117 » Sat Apr 17, 2021 6:43 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:
cl2117 wrote:Poor man's Aaron Gordon at the minimum. I love it. I mean, why not?


How do you think so? They’re almost nothing alike. Gordon’s value lies in defensive potential and athleticism, while Parker has absolutely NO defense, admits he won’t play it, and has little athleticism left with the knee injuries.

If you want a poor mans Aaron Gordon, you’re gonna be disappointed.


Not stylistically, just in terms of impact they're similar despite heading in different trajectories at this stage:

https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1=parkeja01&player_id2=gordoaa01

It's a poor comparison honestly since AG is so much better/different, but I was trying to get myself to be more bullish on the addition. Just in terms of getting a role player who was doing too much and hoping they do more with less, I'm comparing him to AG since he was another guy C's were rumored to be in on. I'll take what I can get at this stage. Better than keeping Mo.
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Re: Thoughts in General, Rumors, etc 3.0 

Post#245 » by Resistance » Sat Apr 17, 2021 7:13 pm

cl2117 wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
cl2117 wrote:Poor man's Aaron Gordon at the minimum. I love it. I mean, why not?


How do you think so? They’re almost nothing alike. Gordon’s value lies in defensive potential and athleticism, while Parker has absolutely NO defense, admits he won’t play it, and has little athleticism left with the knee injuries.

If you want a poor mans Aaron Gordon, you’re gonna be disappointed.


Not stylistically, just in terms of impact they're similar despite heading in different trajectories at this stage:

https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1=parkeja01&player_id2=gordoaa01

It's a poor comparison honestly since AG is so much better/different, but I was trying to get myself to be more bullish on the addition. Just in terms of getting a role player who was doing too much and hoping they do more with less, I'm comparing him to AG since he was another guy C's were rumored to be in on. I'll take what I can get at this stage. Better than keeping Mo.



Edwards has another guaranteed year, so waiving him would have put a possibly unnecessary hit against the team salary for next season. But why haven't they experimented with at least one new player on a two-way contract instead of continuing on with both Fall & Waters?
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Re: Thoughts in General, Rumors, etc 3.0 

Post#246 » by zimpy27 » Sat Apr 17, 2021 10:27 pm

What pick is needed to be added to pick 6 to get you pick 5 in this draft?

I'd guess pick 6 plus pick 14 gets you pick 5
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Re: Thoughts in General, Rumors, etc 3.0 

Post#247 » by babyjax13 » Sat Apr 17, 2021 11:56 pm

zimpy27 wrote:What pick is needed to be added to pick 6 to get you pick 5 in this draft?

I'd guess pick 6 plus pick 14 gets you pick 5


I don't think so. I think you could offer pick 6 and 7 and not get the 5th pick. It's a huge dropoff. Every one of the top 5 players in the draft is realistically a better prospect than Anthony Edwards was last year, they'd all be pretty legit as #1 picks in most years. At 6, the draft goes from an outlier to being a bit more average to above-average.
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Re: Thoughts in General, Rumors, etc 3.0 

Post#248 » by Texas Chuck » Sun Apr 18, 2021 12:58 am

babyjax13 wrote:
zimpy27 wrote:What pick is needed to be added to pick 6 to get you pick 5 in this draft?

I'd guess pick 6 plus pick 14 gets you pick 5


I don't think so. I think you could offer pick 6 and 7 and not get the 5th pick. It's a huge dropoff. Every one of the top 5 players in the draft is realistically a better prospect than Anthony Edwards was last year, they'd all be pretty legit as #1 picks in most years. At 6, the draft goes from an outlier to being a bit more average to above-average.


Who is on the board at 5 and what does that team think of them? For instance if I'm in charge of the team at 5 and as expected Cade and Suggs are gone, there isn't a player left that I wouldn't trade for 6 and 7 and I might well still get my favorite guy and a bonus pick one spot later.

I don't know that 14 gets me to drop unless I believe the team at 6 wants someone different from me and I get a free lotto pick and still get my guy, but 6 and 7 is a no brainer for me based on what I know--which admittedly is way less than the team who will actually own 5. And if you love a guy, take the guy no question.
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Re: Thoughts in General, Rumors, etc 3.0 

Post#249 » by eminence » Sun Apr 18, 2021 1:47 am

5 for 6/7 is an absolute no-brainer, I'd probably consider 6/10 for 5. And no, most of the top 5 wouldn't wouldn't be competing for #1 in most years.
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Re: Thoughts in General, Rumors, etc 3.0 

Post#250 » by MoneyTalks41890 » Sun Apr 18, 2021 1:53 am

eminence wrote:5 for 6/7 is an absolute no-brainer, I'd probably consider 6/10 for 5. And no, most of the top 5 wouldn't wouldn't be competing for #1 in most years.


If I felt like I knew what my GM was doing I’d do something like 6/10 for 5. There are a number of under-scouted guys that could be gems at 10. But Kuminga is also quite intriguing...
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Re: Thoughts in General, Rumors, etc 3.0 

Post#251 » by jayjaysee » Sun Apr 18, 2021 1:55 am

zimpy27 wrote:What pick is needed to be added to pick 6 to get you pick 5 in this draft?

I'd guess pick 6 plus pick 14 gets you pick 5


I’m not in love with Kuminga due to his shooting, but every mock I’ve seen has him going 5th.. so I think it’s safe to say the general opinion is he’s a stud..

I think to jump a tier costs more than the 14th pick. Not sure if I agree with it costing 6 and 7, but think that’s closer since it does seem to be a clear perceived drop off.

I think I’d want 6 and 8-9? Cause I really like Jalen Johnson and Moody. Really love this draft though, a lot of talent and a lot of high floors IMO.

So cool that Dallas doesn’t have a pick.
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Re: Thoughts in General, Rumors, etc 3.0 

Post#252 » by babyjax13 » Sun Apr 18, 2021 5:08 am

Texas Chuck wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:
zimpy27 wrote:What pick is needed to be added to pick 6 to get you pick 5 in this draft?

I'd guess pick 6 plus pick 14 gets you pick 5


I don't think so. I think you could offer pick 6 and 7 and not get the 5th pick. It's a huge dropoff. Every one of the top 5 players in the draft is realistically a better prospect than Anthony Edwards was last year, they'd all be pretty legit as #1 picks in most years. At 6, the draft goes from an outlier to being a bit more average to above-average.


Who is on the board at 5 and what does that team think of them? For instance if I'm in charge of the team at 5 and as expected Cade and Suggs are gone, there isn't a player left that I wouldn't trade for 6 and 7 and I might well still get my favorite guy and a bonus pick one spot later.

I don't know that 14 gets me to drop unless I believe the team at 6 wants someone different from me and I get a free lotto pick and still get my guy, but 6 and 7 is a no brainer for me based on what I know--which admittedly is way less than the team who will actually own 5. And if you love a guy, take the guy no question.


Mobley is the consensus second best prospect at worst, and I think most people have Green over Suggs. Kuminga is also nothing to sneeze at, I love the development he showed in the gleague. I certainly wouldn't take two of any prospects (non top-5) in the draft for one of those five. I have guys I like that I think could end up being as good as those guys (Springer and Dosunmu), but getting one of them isn't worth moving out of that position - you use your other assets to do it.
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Re: Thoughts in General, Rumors, etc 3.0 

Post#253 » by bondom34 » Sun Apr 18, 2021 5:12 am

babyjax13 wrote:
Texas Chuck wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:
I don't think so. I think you could offer pick 6 and 7 and not get the 5th pick. It's a huge dropoff. Every one of the top 5 players in the draft is realistically a better prospect than Anthony Edwards was last year, they'd all be pretty legit as #1 picks in most years. At 6, the draft goes from an outlier to being a bit more average to above-average.


Who is on the board at 5 and what does that team think of them? For instance if I'm in charge of the team at 5 and as expected Cade and Suggs are gone, there isn't a player left that I wouldn't trade for 6 and 7 and I might well still get my favorite guy and a bonus pick one spot later.

I don't know that 14 gets me to drop unless I believe the team at 6 wants someone different from me and I get a free lotto pick and still get my guy, but 6 and 7 is a no brainer for me based on what I know--which admittedly is way less than the team who will actually own 5. And if you love a guy, take the guy no question.


Mobley is the consensus second best prospect at worst, and I think most people have Green over Suggs. Kuminga is also nothing to sneeze at, I love the development he showed in the gleague. I certainly wouldn't take two of any prospects (non top-5) in the draft for one of those five. I have guys I like that I think could end up being as good as those guys (Springer and Dosunmu), but getting one of them isn't worth moving out of that position - you use your other assets to do it.

Definitely don't think he's consensus 2nd. I know I have Suggs, and Vecenie's last board did as well. And last time I heard Matt Pennie was the same.

Some take Mobley, some Suggs. Cunningham seems pretty overwhelming.

As to the question, the guy I've seen at 5 most is Kuminga but ultimately it will vary by team and the offers would as well.

Most seem to have the biggest drop after 5, but I've seen some folks who think its more after 4 or maybe elsewhere.
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Re: Thoughts in General, Rumors, etc 3.0 

Post#254 » by babyjax13 » Sun Apr 18, 2021 5:15 am

bondom34 wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:
Texas Chuck wrote:
Who is on the board at 5 and what does that team think of them? For instance if I'm in charge of the team at 5 and as expected Cade and Suggs are gone, there isn't a player left that I wouldn't trade for 6 and 7 and I might well still get my favorite guy and a bonus pick one spot later.

I don't know that 14 gets me to drop unless I believe the team at 6 wants someone different from me and I get a free lotto pick and still get my guy, but 6 and 7 is a no brainer for me based on what I know--which admittedly is way less than the team who will actually own 5. And if you love a guy, take the guy no question.


Mobley is the consensus second best prospect at worst, and I think most people have Green over Suggs. Kuminga is also nothing to sneeze at, I love the development he showed in the gleague. I certainly wouldn't take two of any prospects (non top-5) in the draft for one of those five. I have guys I like that I think could end up being as good as those guys (Springer and Dosunmu), but getting one of them isn't worth moving out of that position - you use your other assets to do it.

Definitely don't think he's consensus 2nd. I know I have Suggs, and Vecenie's last board did as well. And last time I heard Matt Pennie was the same.

Some take Mobley, some Suggs. Cunningham seems pretty overwhelming.

As to the question, the guy I've seen at 5 most is Kuminga but ultimately it will vary by team and the offers would as well.


I don't think the top 5 is going to vary by team, tbh. The only player I can see *maybe* breaking into that conversation is Springer because of how young he is, but Kuminga is just as young and - at this stage - much better.
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Re: Thoughts in General, Rumors, etc 3.0 

Post#255 » by bondom34 » Sun Apr 18, 2021 5:36 am

babyjax13 wrote:
bondom34 wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:
Mobley is the consensus second best prospect at worst, and I think most people have Green over Suggs. Kuminga is also nothing to sneeze at, I love the development he showed in the gleague. I certainly wouldn't take two of any prospects (non top-5) in the draft for one of those five. I have guys I like that I think could end up being as good as those guys (Springer and Dosunmu), but getting one of them isn't worth moving out of that position - you use your other assets to do it.

Definitely don't think he's consensus 2nd. I know I have Suggs, and Vecenie's last board did as well. And last time I heard Matt Pennie was the same.

Some take Mobley, some Suggs. Cunningham seems pretty overwhelming.

As to the question, the guy I've seen at 5 most is Kuminga but ultimately it will vary by team and the offers would as well.


I don't think the top 5 is going to vary by team, tbh. The only player I can see *maybe* breaking into that conversation is Springer because of how young he is, but Kuminga is just as young and - at this stage - much better.

I think 5 is likely the first tier too, at least for the vast majority. But in this case it only takes one, and have seen some who question Kuminga a bit (tbh I have questions and need more research). And think I could see a team having a few guys there. I'm lower on him but could see a team really liking Barnes.

As for the question, not sure what picks it would take. But if you have 6, it's a good start. I'm closer to Chuck and after the top two (Suggs at two) see the biggest drop.

Edit: Might have some questions on Green too. Right now the top two are the only guys I feel pretty good about right now. So guess that follows Chucks points lol.
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Re: Thoughts in General, Rumors, etc 3.0 

Post#256 » by MotownMadness » Sun Apr 18, 2021 9:10 am

Wouldn't trade down like that out of the top 5. In my mind it's a great top 4 with Kuminga being the consolation prize at 5.

He showed a bit of everything at the GLeague at times.
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Re: Thoughts in General, Rumors, etc 3.0 

Post#257 » by zimpy27 » Sun Apr 18, 2021 9:54 am

Ok so sounds like 6+9 gets you 5.

That shows how big the drop is from 6 to 5. Pick 9 is worth a very good player alone.
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Re: Thoughts in General, Rumors, etc 3.0 

Post#258 » by NYG » Sun Apr 18, 2021 1:12 pm

Just something I found interesting... 7th and 8th worst records seems to be a sweet spot for the new draft lottery format.

In both of the previous times since they started the new format, the team with the highest odds of going first overall ended up top four both times, but so did 7th and 8th highest odds of going first overall.

So both in 2019 and 2020, 3 of the 4 teams in the lottery winners (Top 4) were the worst team in the league, the 7th worst team in the league and the 8th worst team in the league.

It'll be interesting if this year the 1st, 7th and 8th all get in again.
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Re: Thoughts in General, Rumors, etc 3.0 

Post#259 » by BullyKing » Sun Apr 18, 2021 1:52 pm

NYG wrote:Just something I found interesting... 7th and 8th worst records seems to be a sweet spot for the new draft lottery format.

In both of the previous times since they started the new format, the team with the highest odds of going first overall ended up top four both times, but so did 7th and 8th highest odds of going first overall.

So both in 2019 and 2020, 3 of the 4 teams in the lottery winners (Top 4) were the worst team in the league, the 7th worst team in the league and the 8th worst team in the league.

It'll be interesting if this year the 1st, 7th and 8th all get in again.


This really isn't how odds work
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Re: Thoughts in General, Rumors, etc 3.0 

Post#260 » by NYG » Sun Apr 18, 2021 2:06 pm

BullyKing wrote:
NYG wrote:Just something I found interesting... 7th and 8th worst records seems to be a sweet spot for the new draft lottery format.

In both of the previous times since they started the new format, the team with the highest odds of going first overall ended up top four both times, but so did 7th and 8th highest odds of going first overall.

So both in 2019 and 2020, 3 of the 4 teams in the lottery winners (Top 4) were the worst team in the league, the 7th worst team in the league and the 8th worst team in the league.

It'll be interesting if this year the 1st, 7th and 8th all get in again.


This really isn't how odds work


Well obviously, but my point was if 1, 7 and 8 end up top 4 this year it means it happened all 3 years under the new format.

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