Who Says No? Sabonis for Rui, Bertans and 6th Overall

Moderators: Texas Chuck, pacers33granger, HartfordWhalers, Mamba4Goat, Andre Roberstan, Trader_Joe, BullyKing, loserX

Who Says No?

Pacers
30
49%
Wizards
22
36%
Neither
9
15%
 
Total votes: 61

NYG
General Manager
Posts: 7,815
And1: 1,315
Joined: Aug 09, 2017

Who Says No? Sabonis for Rui, Bertans and 6th Overall 

Post#1 » by NYG » Mon Apr 5, 2021 12:09 am

Domantas Sabonis for Rui Hachimura, Davis Bertans and 6th Overall Pick

Washington adds an all-star to pair with Beal to help push along the long rebuild and get to the playoffs.

Indy gets a true PF in Hachimura next to Turner while adding a stretch 4 off the bench and a top 10 pick which with Indy’s own lottery pick gives them a nicely balanced roster with depth.
Topofthekey
Starter
Posts: 2,368
And1: 908
Joined: Nov 18, 2017

Re: Who Says No? Sabonis for Rui, Bertans and 6th Overall 

Post#2 » by Topofthekey » Mon Apr 5, 2021 2:46 am

Value isn't bad for both teams, you can realistically argue for either team to do the trade based off on value

Not sure about the direction for both teams though

For Wizards, doesn't trading Hachimura and Bertans leave them with a hole at PF? Also, it feels like the correct direction for Wizards is to stockpile draft picks and young talent and position themselves for life after Westbrook? Doesn't trading for Sabonis ruin their rebuild? And isn't it really awkward for them that their 3 best players after this trade are on 3 different timelines? Westbrook is 32 and a vet, Beal is 27 and in his prime, and Sabonis is 24 and just emerging as a star. I don't know, could be awkward or could be really good, depends on how you see it

For Pacers, Hachimura does look like a decent fit next to Turner, and for a franchise who nevers tanks, landing #6 in the draft is exciting for them. But doesn't trading their best player in Sabonis for a youth package in Rui and #6 go against what they are trying to do? They are a franchise who signed "contribute right away" FAs like McDermott, McConnell, and Lamb because they place more importance in competing now, over developing young players. Not sure if trading their best player to go on a youth movement is what they want to do

As I said, you can argue for both teams to do the trade too, though

If Wizards are looking to keep Beal and add talent in order to compete right now while Westbrook still has something left in the tank, Sabonis is probably one of the best players available for the package offered

If Pacers are looking to do a mini tear down and pivot to the future without bottoming out completely, then Rui + #6 is also probably one of the best packages available to them

Ultimately, I think if Wizards go for something like this, they'd rather trade Avdija over Rui, but Pacers likely won't go for that
Godaddycurse
Analyst
Posts: 3,658
And1: 1,830
Joined: Nov 13, 2019
 

Re: Who Says No? Sabonis for Rui, Bertans and 6th Overall 

Post#3 » by Godaddycurse » Mon Apr 5, 2021 3:06 am

If sabonis is available for a mid lotto pick as the return i would offer raptors 2021 1st plus value as needed too.
User avatar
Scoot McGroot
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 31,553
And1: 5,526
Joined: Feb 16, 2005
     

Re: Who Says No? Sabonis for Rui, Bertans and 6th Overall 

Post#4 » by Scoot McGroot » Mon Apr 5, 2021 1:11 pm

Godaddycurse wrote:If sabonis is available for a mid lotto pick as the return i would offer raptors 2021 1st plus value as needed too.


I don’t know that I would call 6 “mid-lotto”, but sure, Toronto is currently right behind it.

The problem with Toronto, though, is that Washington has value like Rui or Avdija they could package with 6, while Toronto doesn’t. Toronto isn’t trading OG, especially not with the lotto pick. And they’re not dealing Siakam or FVV with the lotto pick for a Sabonis. So, it’s either a Washington deal for a slightly better pick AND an additional value piece, or Toronto for a slightly lesser pick and maybe also future picks (which Indy hasn’t done since the 80’s).
Godaddycurse
Analyst
Posts: 3,658
And1: 1,830
Joined: Nov 13, 2019
 

Re: Who Says No? Sabonis for Rui, Bertans and 6th Overall 

Post#5 » by Godaddycurse » Mon Apr 5, 2021 1:26 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:
Godaddycurse wrote:If sabonis is available for a mid lotto pick as the return i would offer raptors 2021 1st plus value as needed too.


I don’t know that I would call 6 “mid-lotto”, but sure, Toronto is currently right behind it.

The problem with Toronto, though, is that Washington has value like Rui or Avdija they could package with 6, while Toronto doesn’t. Toronto isn’t trading OG, especially not with the lotto pick. And they’re not dealing Siakam or FVV with the lotto pick for a Sabonis. So, it’s either a Washington deal for a slightly better pick AND an additional value piece, or Toronto for a slightly lesser pick and maybe also future picks (which Indy hasn’t done since the 80’s).


The flipside is we wont send you a bad contract in bertans either. In my mind rui and bertans is a wash
E S V L
Starter
Posts: 2,413
And1: 677
Joined: Dec 19, 2017
Location: Toronto
     

Re: Who Says No? Sabonis for Rui, Bertans and 6th Overall 

Post#6 » by E S V L » Mon Apr 5, 2021 1:32 pm

It`s a decent offer, not the best one Sabonis is capable of attracting though
User avatar
Scoot McGroot
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 31,553
And1: 5,526
Joined: Feb 16, 2005
     

Re: Who Says No? Sabonis for Rui, Bertans and 6th Overall 

Post#7 » by Scoot McGroot » Mon Apr 5, 2021 1:35 pm

Godaddycurse wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
Godaddycurse wrote:If sabonis is available for a mid lotto pick as the return i would offer raptors 2021 1st plus value as needed too.


I don’t know that I would call 6 “mid-lotto”, but sure, Toronto is currently right behind it.

The problem with Toronto, though, is that Washington has value like Rui or Avdija they could package with 6, while Toronto doesn’t. Toronto isn’t trading OG, especially not with the lotto pick. And they’re not dealing Siakam or FVV with the lotto pick for a Sabonis. So, it’s either a Washington deal for a slightly better pick AND an additional value piece, or Toronto for a slightly lesser pick and maybe also future picks (which Indy hasn’t done since the 80’s).


The flipside is we wont send you a bad contract in bertans either. In my mind rui and bertans is a wash


Depends. Y’all renouncing Lowry?

We might see Bertans as a potential flyer worth trying out. At the least, if we’re dealing a guy like Sabonis, I think we’d want multiple pieces, even at the cost of one iffy (though not terrible) contract. Just the 7, or the 6 and a Rui/Avdija, while absorbing Bertans, and I’d likely take the 2nd one there. Slightly better pick, additional piece to look at, and Bertans would simply replace McDermott for us, so the contract isn’t terrible. Especially since we wouldn’t end up with cap space, and we’d be locked up pretty long-term. Would make re signing Warren harder, but maybe we deal him too.
Godaddycurse
Analyst
Posts: 3,658
And1: 1,830
Joined: Nov 13, 2019
 

Re: Who Says No? Sabonis for Rui, Bertans and 6th Overall 

Post#8 » by Godaddycurse » Mon Apr 5, 2021 1:45 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:
Godaddycurse wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
I don’t know that I would call 6 “mid-lotto”, but sure, Toronto is currently right behind it.

The problem with Toronto, though, is that Washington has value like Rui or Avdija they could package with 6, while Toronto doesn’t. Toronto isn’t trading OG, especially not with the lotto pick. And they’re not dealing Siakam or FVV with the lotto pick for a Sabonis. So, it’s either a Washington deal for a slightly better pick AND an additional value piece, or Toronto for a slightly lesser pick and maybe also future picks (which Indy hasn’t done since the 80’s).


The flipside is we wont send you a bad contract in bertans either. In my mind rui and bertans is a wash


Depends. Y’all renouncing Lowry?

We might see Bertans as a potential flyer worth trying out. At the least, if we’re dealing a guy like Sabonis, I think we’d want multiple pieces, even at the cost of one iffy (though not terrible) contract. Just the 7, or the 6 and a Rui/Avdija, while absorbing Bertans, and I’d likely take the 2nd one there. Slightly better pick, additional piece to look at, and Bertans would simply replace McDermott for us, so the contract isn’t terrible. Especially since we wouldn’t end up with cap space, and we’d be locked up pretty long-term. Would make re signing Warren harder, but maybe we deal him too.


We have expirings in baynes and hood vs bertans if we want to keep lowry.
jayjaysee
King of the Trade Board
Posts: 9,937
And1: 2,485
Joined: Aug 05, 2012

Re: Who Says No? Sabonis for Rui, Bertans and 6th Overall 

Post#9 » by jayjaysee » Mon Apr 5, 2021 1:49 pm

I like the value enough in the OP, just wonder if Indy really needs to add 6-Barnes? and Rui (and Bertans) when they’re already so deep.

Would think Indy would prefer to send Washington’s package (and their first?) to a third team for one singular piece? Guess most teams want to consolidate though.

Toronto’s package could be Hood+Baynes+future pick(s) to a third team and Indy end up with 7 and Harrison Barnes+? or something similar/better?
Topofthekey
Starter
Posts: 2,368
And1: 908
Joined: Nov 18, 2017

Re: Who Says No? Sabonis for Rui, Bertans and 6th Overall 

Post#10 » by Topofthekey » Mon Apr 5, 2021 2:53 pm

Godaddycurse wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
Godaddycurse wrote:
The flipside is we wont send you a bad contract in bertans either. In my mind rui and bertans is a wash


Depends. Y’all renouncing Lowry?

We might see Bertans as a potential flyer worth trying out. At the least, if we’re dealing a guy like Sabonis, I think we’d want multiple pieces, even at the cost of one iffy (though not terrible) contract. Just the 7, or the 6 and a Rui/Avdija, while absorbing Bertans, and I’d likely take the 2nd one there. Slightly better pick, additional piece to look at, and Bertans would simply replace McDermott for us, so the contract isn’t terrible. Especially since we wouldn’t end up with cap space, and we’d be locked up pretty long-term. Would make re signing Warren harder, but maybe we deal him too.


We have expirings in baynes and hood vs bertans if we want to keep lowry.

Hachimura + Bertans is a positive package to me

So

#6 > #7
Hachimura + Bertans > expiring
User avatar
Scoot McGroot
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 31,553
And1: 5,526
Joined: Feb 16, 2005
     

Re: Who Says No? Sabonis for Rui, Bertans and 6th Overall 

Post#11 » by Scoot McGroot » Mon Apr 5, 2021 2:59 pm

jayjaysee wrote:I like the value enough in the OP, just wonder if Indy really needs to add 6-Barnes? and Rui (and Bertans) when they’re already so deep.

Would think Indy would prefer to send Washington’s package (and their first?) to a third team for one singular piece? Guess most teams want to consolidate though.

Toronto’s package could be Hood+Baynes+future pick(s) to a third team and Indy end up with 7 and Harrison Barnes+? or something similar/better?


It’d probably require thinking that Doug/McConnell are pricing out of the range we’re comfortable paying, and that Aaron/Lamb are fine for now, but not long-term pieces. If so, we’d be decently thin, and would have just Goga/Sumner in the development pipeline.

We’d definitely not be interested in Hood/Baynes. An offer where they’re renounced and cap space is used would likely be more useful/valuable. But yes, 7/Barnes would be better than those filler deals.
User avatar
Scoot McGroot
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 31,553
And1: 5,526
Joined: Feb 16, 2005
     

Re: Who Says No? Sabonis for Rui, Bertans and 6th Overall 

Post#12 » by Scoot McGroot » Mon Apr 5, 2021 2:59 pm

Godaddycurse wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
Godaddycurse wrote:
The flipside is we wont send you a bad contract in bertans either. In my mind rui and bertans is a wash


Depends. Y’all renouncing Lowry?

We might see Bertans as a potential flyer worth trying out. At the least, if we’re dealing a guy like Sabonis, I think we’d want multiple pieces, even at the cost of one iffy (though not terrible) contract. Just the 7, or the 6 and a Rui/Avdija, while absorbing Bertans, and I’d likely take the 2nd one there. Slightly better pick, additional piece to look at, and Bertans would simply replace McDermott for us, so the contract isn’t terrible. Especially since we wouldn’t end up with cap space, and we’d be locked up pretty long-term. Would make re signing Warren harder, but maybe we deal him too.


We have expirings in baynes and hood vs bertans if we want to keep lowry.


I heavily assume they’re getting waived for their non-guaranteed deals.
basketballwacko2
RealGM
Posts: 16,890
And1: 2,608
Joined: May 11, 2002
Location: Just outside of No where.
     

Re: Who Says No? Sabonis for Rui, Bertans and 6th Overall 

Post#13 » by basketballwacko2 » Mon Apr 5, 2021 3:39 pm

Godaddycurse wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
Godaddycurse wrote:If sabonis is available for a mid lotto pick as the return i would offer raptors 2021 1st plus value as needed too.


I don’t know that I would call 6 “mid-lotto”, but sure, Toronto is currently right behind it.

The problem with Toronto, though, is that Washington has value like Rui or Avdija they could package with 6, while Toronto doesn’t. Toronto isn’t trading OG, especially not with the lotto pick. And they’re not dealing Siakam or FVV with the lotto pick for a Sabonis. So, it’s either a Washington deal for a slightly better pick AND an additional value piece, or Toronto for a slightly lesser pick and maybe also future picks (which Indy hasn’t done since the 80’s).


The flipside is we wont send you a bad contract in bertans either. In my mind rui and bertans is a wash



This offer is not terrible, but I'm not advocating for it. On Bertans his final year looks to be not fully guaranteed but I'm not sure if it's "unguaranteed" or partially guaranteed.
basketballwacko2
RealGM
Posts: 16,890
And1: 2,608
Joined: May 11, 2002
Location: Just outside of No where.
     

Re: Who Says No? Sabonis for Rui, Bertans and 6th Overall 

Post#14 » by basketballwacko2 » Mon Apr 5, 2021 3:41 pm

Topofthekey wrote:
Godaddycurse wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
Depends. Y’all renouncing Lowry?

We might see Bertans as a potential flyer worth trying out. At the least, if we’re dealing a guy like Sabonis, I think we’d want multiple pieces, even at the cost of one iffy (though not terrible) contract. Just the 7, or the 6 and a Rui/Avdija, while absorbing Bertans, and I’d likely take the 2nd one there. Slightly better pick, additional piece to look at, and Bertans would simply replace McDermott for us, so the contract isn’t terrible. Especially since we wouldn’t end up with cap space, and we’d be locked up pretty long-term. Would make re signing Warren harder, but maybe we deal him too.


We have expirings in baynes and hood vs bertans if we want to keep lowry.

Hachimura + Bertans is a positive package to me

So

#6 > #7
Hachimura + Bertans > expiring


I really like Hachimura depending on who is there at the #6 pick I'd have to consider this but hate the idea of trading Domas.
JRoy
Veteran
Posts: 2,686
And1: 1,711
Joined: Feb 27, 2019

Re: Who Says No? Sabonis for Rui, Bertans and 6th Overall 

Post#15 » by JRoy » Mon Apr 5, 2021 3:50 pm

Like others have said, value looks about right but I think IND would have to really like a rookie in that draft range.

IND can be sneaky good in the draft but Sabonis is a big ask. Would they prefer to send Turner? Don’t see his value quite that high and I like him.
User avatar
Scoot McGroot
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 31,553
And1: 5,526
Joined: Feb 16, 2005
     

Re: Who Says No? Sabonis for Rui, Bertans and 6th Overall 

Post#16 » by Scoot McGroot » Mon Apr 5, 2021 4:05 pm

JRoy wrote:Like others have said, value looks about right but I think IND would have to really like a rookie in that draft range.

IND can be sneaky good in the draft but Sabonis is a big ask. Would they prefer to send Turner? Don’t see his value quite that high and I like him.



A few of us have said that Sabonis raises the ceiling for Indy more than Turner, but Turner raises the floor. It’s easier to build around Turner at the 5 than it is to build around Sabonis, but the layoff of building around Sabonis would potentially be much higher.
JRoy
Veteran
Posts: 2,686
And1: 1,711
Joined: Feb 27, 2019

Re: Who Says No? Sabonis for Rui, Bertans and 6th Overall 

Post#17 » by JRoy » Mon Apr 5, 2021 6:34 pm

Agreed.

In POR we are big fans of the Sabonii.
User avatar
Texas Chuck
Senior Mod - Mavericks and NBA TnT Forum
Senior Mod - Mavericks and NBA TnT Forum
Posts: 62,674
And1: 56,682
Joined: May 19, 2012
Location: 403 Minutes in the Bay
   

Re: Who Says No? Sabonis for Rui, Bertans and 6th Overall 

Post#18 » by Texas Chuck » Mon Apr 5, 2021 6:38 pm

I would not consider this as the Pacers. Especially since Charlotte would almost certainly top this offer. Or Memphis. Or OKC. Or Houston.
bondom34 wrote:This is stupid and you know this is stupid.
Ruzious
Forum Mod
Forum Mod
Posts: 43,860
And1: 8,689
Joined: Jul 17, 2001
       

Re: Who Says No? Sabonis for Rui, Bertans and 6th Overall 

Post#19 » by Ruzious » Mon Apr 5, 2021 7:17 pm

Re Bertans' value, let's see how he does the rest of the season - healthy - to see if his value is restored.
"Look, you never know when you may need to borrow a cup of sugar, maybe some milk or a handgun" - Dan C. from Texas
MoneyTalks41890
RealGM
Posts: 19,676
And1: 10,139
Joined: Oct 13, 2009
 

Re: Who Says No? Sabonis for Rui, Bertans and 6th Overall 

Post#20 » by MoneyTalks41890 » Mon Apr 5, 2021 7:20 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:I would not consider this as the Pacers. Especially since Charlotte would almost certainly top this offer. Or Memphis. Or OKC. Or Houston.


Would they? I'm not sure sure. People are enamored with this draft and the top 5 players look really good. What pieces do those teams have to offer that are better than the 6th pick? Or are you thinking volume? Because if they get it I don't see any of those teams offering a top 5 pick. And OKC wouldn't do SGA, so there's not a lot left that could beat this imo.

Return to Trades and Transactions