Who Says No? Sabonis for Rui, Bertans and 6th Overall

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Who Says No?

Pacers
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49%
Wizards
22
36%
Neither
9
15%
 
Total votes: 61

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Re: Who Says No? Sabonis for Rui, Bertans and 6th Overall 

Post#21 » by Texas Chuck » Mon Apr 5, 2021 7:24 pm

MoneyTalks41890 wrote:
Texas Chuck wrote:I would not consider this as the Pacers. Especially since Charlotte would almost certainly top this offer. Or Memphis. Or OKC. Or Houston.


Would they? I'm not sure sure. People are enamored with this draft and the top 5 players look really good. What pieces do those teams have to offer that are better than the 6th pick? Or are you thinking volume? Because if they get it I don't see any of those teams offering a top 5 pick. And OKC wouldn't do SGA, so there's not a lot left that could beat this imo.


I don't have the 6th pick as that much more attractive than the 10th pick. Definitely worth more obviously, but not tons. And not having to eat Bertans money and Rui doesn't add much value for me. IDK just doesn't feel that hard to find a more attractive offer for Sabonis.

Maybe others are higher on some of the 3rd tier draft prospects, but it falls off pretty hard for me after Suggs and Cade.
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Re: Who Says No? Sabonis for Rui, Bertans and 6th Overall 

Post#22 » by MoneyTalks41890 » Mon Apr 5, 2021 7:27 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:
MoneyTalks41890 wrote:
Texas Chuck wrote:I would not consider this as the Pacers. Especially since Charlotte would almost certainly top this offer. Or Memphis. Or OKC. Or Houston.


Would they? I'm not sure sure. People are enamored with this draft and the top 5 players look really good. What pieces do those teams have to offer that are better than the 6th pick? Or are you thinking volume? Because if they get it I don't see any of those teams offering a top 5 pick. And OKC wouldn't do SGA, so there's not a lot left that could beat this imo.


I don't have the 6th pick as that much more attractive than the 10th pick. Definitely worth more obviously, but not tons. And not having to eat Bertans money and Rui doesn't add much value for me. IDK just doesn't feel that hard to find a more attractive offer for Sabonis.

Maybe others are higher on some of the 3rd tier draft prospects, but it falls off pretty hard for me after Suggs and Cade.


Got it. Well the Wizards can make this package better by swapping out Bertans (who I think is a pretty bad contract) for Bryant. Money still works (barely).

Then I'm probably trying to move Bertans and Deni for a center. Maybe Capela? Doubt the Hawks like that much even with a future pick added.
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Re: Who Says No? Sabonis for Rui, Bertans and 6th Overall 

Post#23 » by RipPizzaGuy » Mon Apr 5, 2021 8:17 pm

From Sac POV id offer #10 + Barnes + a whole lotta 2nds. Could include Bagley for Lamb if Indiana preferred that.

So Id be topped at #10/Barnes/Bagley/2nds for Sabonis/Lamb

If the Kings could get Sabonis to pair with Fox/Hali long term, id jump at that.
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Re: Who Says No? Sabonis for Rui, Bertans and 6th Overall 

Post#24 » by Dat2U » Mon Apr 5, 2021 8:21 pm

Wizards are all in on Rui. He's probably as untouchable as it gets in their eyes. Rightly so or not

I could see them trying to move Bertans with their pick if Beal gives them an ultimatum since he's apparently playing co-GM. Turner for Bertans & a pick feels like the type of shortsighted move they could make.
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Re: Who Says No? Sabonis for Rui, Bertans and 6th Overall 

Post#25 » by BarbaGrizz » Mon Apr 5, 2021 8:44 pm

Pacers should ask for one more protected 1st round pick
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Re: Who Says No? Sabonis for Rui, Bertans and 6th Overall 

Post#26 » by Scoot McGroot » Mon Apr 5, 2021 8:49 pm

RipPizzaGuy wrote:From Sac POV id offer #10 + Barnes + a whole lotta 2nds. Could include Bagley for Lamb if Indiana preferred that.

So Id be topped at #10/Barnes/Bagley/2nds for Sabonis/Lamb

If the Kings could get Sabonis to pair with Fox/Hali long term, id jump at that.


It's not terribly attractive for Indy. The Lamb/Bagley thing? Meh. We'd have Goga likely ahead of Bagley, so Bagley would be a quite expensive 3rd center/4th big man. Otherwise, Sabonis for 10/Barnes isn't as attractive to me as 6/Rui/Bertans. I think 6 gets a better prospect than 10 by a decent amount, and I would actually see Bertans on a long-term deal as less bad for Indy than for other teams. I'd agree that Barnes is better overall. But, Rui would be the piece that would make the Washington concept better, in addition to the much better pick. I see 6/Bertans as equal-ish to Barnes/10. After that, Rui is just more valuable than anything Sacramento could/would include.
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Re: Who Says No? Sabonis for Rui, Bertans and 6th Overall 

Post#27 » by Scoot McGroot » Mon Apr 5, 2021 8:50 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:I would not consider this as the Pacers. Especially since Charlotte would almost certainly top this offer. Or Memphis. Or OKC. Or Houston.


Could Charlotte top this? Is OKC in a timeframe to do so? I don't think Houston could top it either. Memphis, sure, but would they?
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Re: Who Says No? Sabonis for Rui, Bertans and 6th Overall 

Post#28 » by LloydFree » Mon Apr 5, 2021 8:53 pm

That's not the kind of trade the Wizards need to be doing. Either way I wouldn't give up the #6 pick for Sabonis. What does that get you? #8 seed?

The Wizards need to be thinking along the same lines as Orlando at the trade deadline. Dump Beal on the first desperate team that will give you multiple 1sts a few years out.
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Re: Who Says No? Sabonis for Rui, Bertans and 6th Overall 

Post#29 » by Ruzious » Mon Apr 5, 2021 9:11 pm

BarbaGrizz wrote:Pacers should ask for one more protected 1st round pick

Wiz traded a protected 2023 pick in the Wall/Westbrook trade - that's going to strictly limit trading a future 1st, and I don't think they'd want to, anyway.
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Re: Who Says No? Sabonis for Rui, Bertans and 6th Overall 

Post#30 » by pacers33granger » Mon Apr 5, 2021 9:48 pm

It may make more sense for Washington to keep Bertans. Indy doesn't want that kind of money tied up if we're trading Domas for primarily a pick and Washington could get better use out of him as a stretch 4 next to Domas (in spurts, that defense would be so bad). Problem is finding the right combo of guys and a few likely need to go to a 3rd team.
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Re: Who Says No? Sabonis for Rui, Bertans and 6th Overall 

Post#31 » by Texas Chuck » Mon Apr 5, 2021 9:48 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:
Texas Chuck wrote:I would not consider this as the Pacers. Especially since Charlotte would almost certainly top this offer. Or Memphis. Or OKC. Or Houston.


Could Charlotte top this? Is OKC in a timeframe to do so? I don't think Houston could top it either. Memphis, sure, but would they?


Value wise I have zero questions any of them can top it. Now as to their interest? Can't speak to it for sure. As to Indy wanting the value in the form they can provide it? Can't speak to that either.

I guess my point is I don't see the package from Washington in the OP as all that attractive. But obviously players are in the eye of the beholder and others may view Rui/one of Barnes/Kuminga/Johnson/Kispert as much more attractive players than I do.
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Re: Who Says No? Sabonis for Rui, Bertans and 6th Overall 

Post#32 » by pacers33granger » Mon Apr 5, 2021 9:52 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:
I guess my point is I don't see the package from Washington in the OP as all that attractive. But obviously players are in the eye of the beholder and others may view Rui/one of Barnes/Kuminga/Johnson/Kispert as much more attractive players than I do.


Bertans is dragging the package down quite a bit imo, at least from Indy's POV. Quick math has us taking on about $5 mil here next year, which is manageable though not ideal. Problem comes that guys start needing new deals quickly and we've sent out our biggest "bargain" contract in Domas. For a small market team like Indy, that contract could be a multi-year issue for an alright bench player.

Rui/6 is a strong package imo. But it's tough due to how much potential flexibility we lose for numerous years with Bertans.
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Re: Who Says No? Sabonis for Rui, Bertans and 6th Overall 

Post#33 » by basketballwacko2 » Tue Apr 6, 2021 4:42 am

LloydFree wrote:That's not the kind of trade the Wizards need to be doing. Either way I wouldn't give up the #6 pick for Sabonis. What does that get you? #8 seed?

The Wizards need to be thinking along the same lines as Orlando at the trade deadline. Dump Beal on the first desperate team that will give you multiple 1sts a few years out.



You know a draft pick at #6 or even #1 is not a sure thing? Remember Jan Vesley? #6 pick 2011! Or Anthony Bennett? Sabonis is a known quantity at 24 yrs old and on a good contract, how can a maybe at #6 be worth more than him?
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Re: Who Says No? Sabonis for Rui, Bertans and 6th Overall 

Post#34 » by penbeast0 » Tue Apr 6, 2021 5:47 am

(a) Sabonis is a poor fit in Washington, a team with no serious defense that doesn't need scoring nearly as badly. Turner would be more valuable to the Wiz, especially since he can play next to Bryant or next to a PF.
(b) If Washington is looking to win now, why are they trading Bertrans who is definitely a win now piece whose value is currently low (same goes for trading Bryant).
(c) If Washington is building for the long term, they don't trade the pick.

It just doesn't make any sense for the Wiz. Something around Hachimura for Turner (Washington will throw in the expiring contracts of R. Lopez and Ish Smith) makes more sense if you like Hachimura that much -- he made great strides defensively this year but he's not the rim protector you want next to Bryant or Bertans. You save money and get a long term solution at the 4; Washington gets a short term defensive upgrade at the cost of 2 years of rookie salary for a starter.

I don't do it if I'm Indiana because I like Turner next to Sabonis but I'm a dinosaur, I like the two big man style.
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Re: Who Says No? Sabonis for Rui, Bertans and 6th Overall 

Post#35 » by Topofthekey » Tue Apr 6, 2021 6:13 am

penbeast0 wrote:(a) Sabonis is a poor fit in Washington, a team with no serious defense that doesn't need scoring nearly as badly. Turner would be more valuable to the Wiz, especially since he can play next to Bryant or next to a PF.
(b) If Washington is looking to win now, why are they trading Bertrans who is definitely a win now piece whose value is currently low (same goes for trading Bryant).
(c) If Washington is building for the long term, they don't trade the pick.

It just doesn't make any sense for the Wiz. Something around Hachimura for Turner (Washington will throw in the expiring contracts of R. Lopez and Ish Smith) makes more sense if you like Hachimura that much -- he made great strides defensively this year but he's not the rim protector you want next to Bryant or Bertans. You save money and get a long term solution at the 4; Washington gets a short term defensive upgrade at the cost of 2 years of rookie salary for a starter.

I don't do it if I'm Indiana because I like Turner next to Sabonis but I'm a dinosaur, I like the two big man style.

I think the idea here is to pair Sabonis with Beal on offense

So either Sabonis goes to Washington, or Beal goes to Indiana
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Re: Who Says No? Sabonis for Rui, Bertans and 6th Overall 

Post#36 » by Prokorov » Tue Apr 6, 2021 4:09 pm

NYG wrote:Domantas Sabonis for Rui Hachimura, Davis Bertans and 6th Overall Pick

Washington adds an all-star to pair with Beal to help push along the long rebuild and get to the playoffs.

Indy gets a true PF in Hachimura next to Turner while adding a stretch 4 off the bench and a top 10 pick which with Indy’s own lottery pick gives them a nicely balanced roster with depth.


I think the Wiz do... pretty quickly.

I like Sabonis, but like, what exactly is he doing to raise that teams ceiling? Probably not much... especially if you remove guys like Rui and Bertans who are needed role guys to defend or space the floor.

Sabonis hasnt really done a ton for Indy as far as raising ceiling for wins. Rui is cost controlled for another 2-3 years and more cost control out of the #6 pick.

To be honest, even if this was one of those situations where beal was like "trade for sabonis or im gone" id probably still pass and try and trade beal. Harden is a couple tiers above beal and you say how tough it was to build a team to win before he bounced. it will be even tougher with beal.

You have the Nets superteam, the sixers close to figuring it out. Jrue/Giannis/middleton locked in for a few years. Now is not the time for the wiz to "go for it"
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Re: Who Says No? Sabonis for Rui, Bertans and 6th Overall 

Post#37 » by daoneandonly » Tue Apr 6, 2021 4:34 pm

Are people not factoring in that bertans is absolutely negative value? That drives down the package significantly. Sabonis and Siakam are worth more than this package
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Re: Who Says No? Sabonis for Rui, Bertans and 6th Overall 

Post#38 » by basketballwacko2 » Wed Apr 7, 2021 4:34 am

Prokorov wrote:
NYG wrote:Domantas Sabonis for Rui Hachimura, Davis Bertans and 6th Overall Pick

Washington adds an all-star to pair with Beal to help push along the long rebuild and get to the playoffs.

Indy gets a true PF in Hachimura next to Turner while adding a stretch 4 off the bench and a top 10 pick which with Indy’s own lottery pick gives them a nicely balanced roster with depth.


I think the Wiz do... pretty quickly.

I like Sabonis, but like, what exactly is he doing to raise that teams ceiling? Probably not much... especially if you remove guys like Rui and Bertans who are needed role guys to defend or space the floor.

Sabonis hasnt really done a ton for Indy as far as raising ceiling for wins. Rui is cost controlled for another 2-3 years and more cost control out of the #6 pick.

To be honest, even if this was one of those situations where beal was like "trade for sabonis or im gone" id probably still pass and try and trade beal. Harden is a couple tiers above beal and you say how tough it was to build a team to win before he bounced. it will be even tougher with beal.

You have the Nets superteam, the sixers close to figuring it out. Jrue/Giannis/middleton locked in for a few years. Now is not the time for the wiz to "go for it"


How do you know how much Sabonis has done for Indiana? Oladipo's injury set them back, but Dom and Myles have been steady and work better than anyone thought. Sabonis is a great passer and rebounder cleaning up the glass while Turner is a shot blocker and great defender. This season Warren and LeVert being injured set the team back again. They're not going to beat the Nets or the Bucks with those teams current configuration, but what do you do if you're Indiana or Washington just give up and become a "Farm Team" for the big markets?

Sure the Pacers or the Wizards could sell off everything they have for draft picks and scrubs and tank for 3-4 years with no guarantee that the picks they get will make them a great team. Look at Boston for all their picks they have Brown and Tatum and a handful of bench warmers that may or may not ever amount to anything. Philly got Embiid and Simmons out of their tank which is great but can they overcome the Nets or Bucks?
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Re: Who Says No? Sabonis for Rui, Bertans and 6th Overall 

Post#39 » by basketballwacko2 » Wed Apr 7, 2021 4:55 am

No Sabonis and no Brogdon against the bulls and this team looks like doggy doo doo! I'd rest the guys as much as possible and coast the rest of the way this year.
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Re: Who Says No? Sabonis for Rui, Bertans and 6th Overall 

Post#40 » by Prokorov » Wed Apr 7, 2021 1:36 pm

basketballwacko2 wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
NYG wrote:Domantas Sabonis for Rui Hachimura, Davis Bertans and 6th Overall Pick

Washington adds an all-star to pair with Beal to help push along the long rebuild and get to the playoffs.

Indy gets a true PF in Hachimura next to Turner while adding a stretch 4 off the bench and a top 10 pick which with Indy’s own lottery pick gives them a nicely balanced roster with depth.


I think the Wiz do... pretty quickly.

I like Sabonis, but like, what exactly is he doing to raise that teams ceiling? Probably not much... especially if you remove guys like Rui and Bertans who are needed role guys to defend or space the floor.

Sabonis hasnt really done a ton for Indy as far as raising ceiling for wins. Rui is cost controlled for another 2-3 years and more cost control out of the #6 pick.

To be honest, even if this was one of those situations where beal was like "trade for sabonis or im gone" id probably still pass and try and trade beal. Harden is a couple tiers above beal and you say how tough it was to build a team to win before he bounced. it will be even tougher with beal.

You have the Nets superteam, the sixers close to figuring it out. Jrue/Giannis/middleton locked in for a few years. Now is not the time for the wiz to "go for it"


How do you know how much Sabonis has done for Indiana? Oladipo's injury set them back, but Dom and Myles have been steady and work better than anyone thought. Sabonis is a great passer and rebounder cleaning up the glass while Turner is a shot blocker and great defender. This season Warren and LeVert being injured set the team back again. They're not going to beat the Nets or the Bucks with those teams current configuration, but what do you do if you're Indiana or Washington just give up and become a "Farm Team" for the big markets?

Sure the Pacers or the Wizards could sell off everything they have for draft picks and scrubs and tank for 3-4 years with no guarantee that the picks they get will make them a great team. Look at Boston for all their picks they have Brown and Tatum and a handful of bench warmers that may or may not ever amount to anything. Philly got Embiid and Simmons out of their tank which is great but can they overcome the Nets or Bucks?


1) Levert doesnt help any team win. he is a negative. he has been his entire career. he is an inefficient chucker that plays scared of contact on defense and lacks the quickness to defend smalls. Warren is obviously a big loss. but in either event, sabonis isnt some harden-esque floor raiser who is going to boost the wiz from mid lotto to a 4 seed.

2) The Wizards dont need to tank. they are in a nice spot where they have some young talent, they have some good role guys, they have a mid or better lotto pick this year, and they have some all-stars to keep fans engaged. ride out beal/westbrook for another year or two while adding lotto talent and then if need be trade beal for the next wave of an organically grown team.

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