GSW/IND - Brogdon/Turner to Warriors

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Re: GSW/IND - Brogdon/Turner to Warriors 

Post#21 » by Wolveswin » Wed Apr 7, 2021 7:29 pm

3 teamer with both ideas above made on draft day:

Warriors:
Wiggins + Wiseman + Filler + 2022 Wolves 1st + 2021 Warriors 1st (#13) + 2022 Warriors 1st (protected)
FOR
Turner + Brogdon + Holiday

Wolves:
Edwards + Rubio + Hernangomez + 2021 Wolves 1st (#2)
FOR
Sabonis + Warren + GSW Filler + 2022 Wolves 1st (returned)

Pacers:
Turner + Sabonis + Warren + Holiday + Brogdon
FOR
Wiggins
Rubio (expiring)
Hernangomez
Edwards
Wiseman
#2 (2021 Wolves 1st)
#13 (2021 Warriors 1st)
2022 Warriors 1st (lightly protected)

Quick turn around for Pacers. Use #13 + own #12 to move into top 8 for a FOF. 2022 could be a nice tank year too.
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Re: GSW/IND - Brogdon/Turner to Warriors 

Post#22 » by Wizop » Wed Apr 7, 2021 7:49 pm

Wolveswin wrote:3 teamer with both ideas above made on draft day:

...

Quick turn around for Pacers. Use #13 + own #12 to move into top 8 for a FOF. 2022 could be a nice tank year too.


far too many Pacers going out. we're much more likely to trade no one than everyone.
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Re: GSW/IND - Brogdon/Turner to Warriors 

Post#23 » by Scoot McGroot » Wed Apr 7, 2021 8:02 pm

Wolveswin wrote:3 teamer with both ideas above made on draft day:

Warriors:
Wiggins + Wiseman + Filler + 2022 Wolves 1st + 2021 Warriors 1st (#13) + 2022 Warriors 1st (protected)
FOR
Turner + Brogdon + Holiday

Wolves:
Edwards + Rubio + Hernangomez + 2021 Wolves 1st (#2)
FOR
Sabonis + Warren + GSW Filler + 2022 Wolves 1st (returned)

Pacers:
Turner + Sabonis + Warren + Holiday + Brogdon
FOR
Wiggins
Rubio (expiring)
Hernangomez
Edwards
Wiseman
#2 (2021 Wolves 1st)
#13 (2021 Warriors 1st)
2022 Warriors 1st (lightly protected)

Quick turn around for Pacers. Use #13 + own #12 to move into top 8 for a FOF. 2022 could be a nice tank year too.


To the Bold, what's FOF?

To the italics, it'd be a terrible year, compared to 2021. We generally don't tank, and I can't imagine we'd do it the season we could finally have close to a full stadium, if not full, after not having fans for a year and a half. Seems like a huge financial decision that the owners wouldn't go for, at all.


But, again, it's tough balance, and poor value. Instead of 13/future Warriors 1st, we'd have to be getting that Minnesota 1st. It also puts Wiseman directly as a pure 5 directly in developmental conflict with the guy we already have that's coming along really well now in Goga Bitadze. Wiseman is the prettier prospect, but I'm not terribly sure he's much better than Goga, and you can't really develop two young 5's like that. Playing and developing one buries the other. If we agree that Wiseman is better, you need to move Goga for another prospect at a position of greater need, or else it's just throwing away a prospect for nothing.


Mostly, this is just too much going out from Indy in one deal, that it seems like we're throwing in extra value to each team, just because? Like, Justin Holiday going to GSW seems like just a free piece to GSW for no real reason. And it seems like Warren to Minnesota might be a tad too much that isn't being compensated either, unless the thought is that Rubio is that value, instead of expiring salary? Again, just too much for Indy at once, instead of the thoughtful move at a time approach we historically have gone.
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Re: GSW/IND - Brogdon/Turner to Warriors 

Post#24 » by Topofthekey » Wed Apr 7, 2021 8:17 pm

Wizop wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:If Indy is moving one of Turner or Sabonis, with also having another solid young guy we like in Goga as a pure 5, we are not going to center our return back in another pure 5, like Wiseman.


if we move Turner or Sabonis, we need to get a top quality 4 back on a similarly sized or lower contract. not a center.

if we move Brogdon, we need a point guard back or more likely a pick high enough to draft one - but why that would make sense for the other team eludes me. I think Brogdon should not be in the deal unless it is a three way with Brogdon going to Team A, something going from A to B, and a point guard going from B to the Pacers.

Regarding Brogdon, I think it depends on the team acquiring him

For the Warriors, they will be looking to make a run next year with Steph Curry while he's still in his prime. They're looking to win next year, not in two or three year's time, so it makes sense that they'd prefer Brogdon, over a rookie PG

Also, a rookie PG will be coming off the bench behind Curry, while Brogdon is big enough to start alongside Curry and Klay and defend the 2 or 3 position

Agreed on Turner and Sabonis though. Wiseman will ideally be flipped to a 3rd to get a PF who can start beside Turner or Sabonis

For example, if Turner is the one traded, Wiseman can be routed to Wizards for Rui who can start with Sabonis

So if the Pacers end up trading Turner and Brogdon for Jalen Green and Rui, plus whoever they draft at #12 and #13 (assuming that's where Pacers and Warriors pick end up at), that's still a pretty decent outcome
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Re: GSW/IND - Brogdon/Turner to Warriors 

Post#25 » by kalenclayton » Wed Apr 7, 2021 8:33 pm

Topofthekey wrote:
kalenclayton wrote:
Topofthekey wrote:Yes, that looks pretty good for both teams, if indeed that's exactly how the draft goes

But there are just too many variables

The Wolves pick may not convey, or it may convey but not at #4

And if it did convey at #4, what if Cade, Suggs, and Green were all taken with the top 3 picks

What if Wagner and Mitchell were not available at 12 and 13

But yes, if on draft night Warriors managed to pick Green at #4, and Pacers are on the clock and see players they like at #12 and #13 (assuming that's where Pacers and Warriors are drafting) , then I think both teams need to get on the phone and start haggling

Warriors is one of the few teams that I wouldn't mind trading Turner to. He's a great fit there, and he gets a legitimate shot at being a difference maker on a championship team. I'll be happy to see him win a ring as the defensive anchor for the Warriors

Only sticking points are Wiggins and Holiday

As someone else pointed out, Wiggins is going to be one of the highest paid Pacer ever, for quite some time

And they love Holiday, they'd much rather send out Lamb than Holiday

If the top 3 are Cade, Suggs, and Green, then the Pacers should be even more inclined to make the trade because of Evan Mobley (who may contend with Cade as the best long-term prospect). If that’s the case, you pair Mobley with Wiseman for one hell of a frontcourt. Then you can free up 12 and 13 for wing/pg help. I’m looking at Davion Mitchell, Jaden Springer, Ziaire Williams, Franz Wagner, and Corey Kispert. Maybe I’m trying to package 12 and 13 to move up in the draft to, say, 6-8. Maybe I can use those picks with Sabonis to get a top-5 pick. If so, I’m going for Kuminga (or Green/ Suggs if I can move up higher). If you can leave this draft with Mobley, Kuminga, and Wiseman, then you are set for the future.

But if they take Mobley, they end up having Sabonis, Wiseman, Mobley, and Goga

That is just way too many 7 footers fighting for playing time on one team

Sure, they can try to move Sabonis in a separate deal, but why not just make it a 3 team deal?

The point is, Pacers aren't going to do this trade and then just hope for the best

The only realistic pathway for this trade to happen is on draft night, when Pacers are on the clock with their pick

My thinking is that if Wiseman is brought back with a pick that turns into Mobley, Sabonis is gone. A trade like this doesn’t usually happen without more dominos in line, so I would assume a three team trade would be a possibility as you mentioned. It wouldn’t be doing it for the best. I think a Mobley (4/5) and Wiseman (5) frontcourt would be amazing with Goga backing them up. This type of trade is absolutely contingent on what the plan for Sabonis and the later lottery picks are. As I said before, if the Pacers can move for a top 5 pick, then the Warriors trade seems like a no-brainer. Leaving the draft with a Levert-Kuminga-Mobley-Wiseman core looks absolutely fantastic. I’m ok with people disagreeing with this thought process, but I think this route is a terrific way to go if the Pacers choose to do a quick rebuild.
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Re: GSW/IND - Brogdon/Turner to Warriors 

Post#26 » by Wizop » Wed Apr 7, 2021 8:58 pm

kalenclayton wrote:I think a Mobley (4/5) and Wiseman (5) frontcourt would be amazing with Goga backing them up.


I think we'd only move Sabonis and play Turner at the 5 and Mobley or whoever at the 4.
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Re: GSW/IND - Brogdon/Turner to Warriors 

Post#27 » by kalenclayton » Wed Apr 7, 2021 9:04 pm

Wizop wrote:
kalenclayton wrote:I think a Mobley (4/5) and Wiseman (5) frontcourt would be amazing with Goga backing them up.


I think we'd only move Sabonis and play Turner at the 5 and Mobley or whoever at the 4.

Turner would be gone in this situation though. You would be left with Mobley and Wiseman as a result of sending out Brogdon and Turner.
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Re: GSW/IND - Brogdon/Turner to Warriors 

Post#28 » by Wizop » Wed Apr 7, 2021 10:02 pm

kalenclayton wrote:
Wizop wrote:
kalenclayton wrote:I think a Mobley (4/5) and Wiseman (5) frontcourt would be amazing with Goga backing them up.


I think we'd only move Sabonis and play Turner at the 5 and Mobley or whoever at the 4.

Turner would be gone in this situation though. You would be left with Mobley and Wiseman as a result of sending out Brogdon and Turner.
So you think we're sending out Brogdon, Turner, and Sabonis? I doubt any Pacer fan wants to do that.

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Re: GSW/IND - Brogdon/Turner to Warriors 

Post#29 » by Scoot McGroot » Wed Apr 7, 2021 10:44 pm

Wizop wrote:
kalenclayton wrote:
Wizop wrote:
I think we'd only move Sabonis and play Turner at the 5 and Mobley or whoever at the 4.

Turner would be gone in this situation though. You would be left with Mobley and Wiseman as a result of sending out Brogdon and Turner.
So you think we're sending out Brogdon, Turner, and Sabonis? I doubt any Pacer fan wants to do that.

Sent from my phone.


Rather, if we do, why on Earth would we allow ourselves to be left with Warren (expiring next year) and Levert? Wouldn’t we deal both and rebuild for value, rather than seeing Warren walk to a competitor in a year?
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Re: GSW/IND - Brogdon/Turner to Warriors 

Post#30 » by kalenclayton » Wed Apr 7, 2021 10:58 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:
Wizop wrote:
kalenclayton wrote:Turner would be gone in this situation though. You would be left with Mobley and Wiseman as a result of sending out Brogdon and Turner.
So you think we're sending out Brogdon, Turner, and Sabonis? I doubt any Pacer fan wants to do that.

Sent from my phone.


Rather, if we do, why on Earth would we allow ourselves to be left with Warren (expiring next year) and Levert? Wouldn’t we deal both and rebuild for value, rather than seeing Warren walk to a competitor in a year?

It’s totally fine if y’all don’t like it. I was just saying that I liked the prospect of that rebuild. The value of the trades work and it puts the Pacers into a rebuild with a high ceiling. Of course Warren would be up for sale. We are talking about one trade here, which is usually what we do here. If I were to draw up a Pacers offseason, I would absolutely be selling off Warren. I’d probably keep Levert though. I think he’s a great piece for a rebuild or early playoff contention. As an outsider, I don’t have much of a pulse on the Pacers. I think they have assets that can be used to go into a really good rebuild, but they could also consolidate and push for a better playoff team. I’m hoping the best for the team.
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Re: GSW/IND - Brogdon/Turner to Warriors 

Post#31 » by Scoot McGroot » Wed Apr 7, 2021 11:18 pm

kalenclayton wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
Wizop wrote:So you think we're sending out Brogdon, Turner, and Sabonis? I doubt any Pacer fan wants to do that.

Sent from my phone.


Rather, if we do, why on Earth would we allow ourselves to be left with Warren (expiring next year) and Levert? Wouldn’t we deal both and rebuild for value, rather than seeing Warren walk to a competitor in a year?

It’s totally fine if y’all don’t like it. I was just saying that I liked the prospect of that rebuild. The value of the trades work and it puts the Pacers into a rebuild with a high ceiling. Of course Warren would be up for sale. We are talking about one trade here, which is usually what we do here. If I were to draw up a Pacers offseason, I would absolutely be selling off Warren. I’d probably keep Levert though. I think he’s a great piece for a rebuild or early playoff contention. As an outsider, I don’t have much of a pulse on the Pacers. I think they have assets that can be used to go into a really good rebuild, but they could also consolidate and push for a better playoff team. I’m hoping the best for the team.


One (massive) trade that deals most of the starting lineup in it... :dontknow:

But otherwise, it’s more that it sets us up for a complete bottom out tank for a couple years, and Simon and the Pacers just haven’t shown the willingness to do that, since, well, they bought the team in 83. Plus, I’m not sure that we really want to set ourselves up for another “Oh the Pacers have to deal Wiseman or Mobley ASAP, as they can’t possibly have two guys who project as centers long-term”.

The biggest thing is I think that we’re leaking value a lot around the edges by making a huge 5 man out type deal. Realistically, I’d rather just separate them out and make the best individual deals possible, and I would imagine that we’ll end up getting better fitting pieces for a quicker turnaround.
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Re: GSW/IND - Brogdon/Turner to Warriors 

Post#32 » by kalenclayton » Wed Apr 7, 2021 11:44 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:
kalenclayton wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
Rather, if we do, why on Earth would we allow ourselves to be left with Warren (expiring next year) and Levert? Wouldn’t we deal both and rebuild for value, rather than seeing Warren walk to a competitor in a year?

It’s totally fine if y’all don’t like it. I was just saying that I liked the prospect of that rebuild. The value of the trades work and it puts the Pacers into a rebuild with a high ceiling. Of course Warren would be up for sale. We are talking about one trade here, which is usually what we do here. If I were to draw up a Pacers offseason, I would absolutely be selling off Warren. I’d probably keep Levert though. I think he’s a great piece for a rebuild or early playoff contention. As an outsider, I don’t have much of a pulse on the Pacers. I think they have assets that can be used to go into a really good rebuild, but they could also consolidate and push for a better playoff team. I’m hoping the best for the team.


One (massive) trade that deals most of the starting lineup in it... :dontknow:

But otherwise, it’s more that it sets us up for a complete bottom out tank for a couple years, and Simon and the Pacers just haven’t shown the willingness to do that, since, well, they bought the team in 83. Plus, I’m not sure that we really want to set ourselves up for another “Oh the Pacers have to deal Wiseman or Mobley ASAP, as they can’t possibly have two guys who project as centers long-term”.

The biggest thing is I think that we’re leaking value a lot around the edges by making a huge 5 man out type deal. Realistically, I’d rather just separate them out and make the best individual deals possible, and I would imagine that we’ll end up getting better fitting pieces for a quicker turnaround.

Touché. I might be putting too much value on Mobley, but I was thinking that rebuilding around him would be amazing. I can understand not wanting to blow up the team though. I’m also lower on Wiseman than a lot of posters here, but I still like him. I think the trade here is more of a push for youth, but maybe one that another organization would do.
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Re: GSW/IND - Brogdon/Turner to Warriors 

Post#33 » by Scoot McGroot » Wed Apr 7, 2021 11:52 pm

kalenclayton wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
kalenclayton wrote:It’s totally fine if y’all don’t like it. I was just saying that I liked the prospect of that rebuild. The value of the trades work and it puts the Pacers into a rebuild with a high ceiling. Of course Warren would be up for sale. We are talking about one trade here, which is usually what we do here. If I were to draw up a Pacers offseason, I would absolutely be selling off Warren. I’d probably keep Levert though. I think he’s a great piece for a rebuild or early playoff contention. As an outsider, I don’t have much of a pulse on the Pacers. I think they have assets that can be used to go into a really good rebuild, but they could also consolidate and push for a better playoff team. I’m hoping the best for the team.


One (massive) trade that deals most of the starting lineup in it... :dontknow:

But otherwise, it’s more that it sets us up for a complete bottom out tank for a couple years, and Simon and the Pacers just haven’t shown the willingness to do that, since, well, they bought the team in 83. Plus, I’m not sure that we really want to set ourselves up for another “Oh the Pacers have to deal Wiseman or Mobley ASAP, as they can’t possibly have two guys who project as centers long-term”.

The biggest thing is I think that we’re leaking value a lot around the edges by making a huge 5 man out type deal. Realistically, I’d rather just separate them out and make the best individual deals possible, and I would imagine that we’ll end up getting better fitting pieces for a quicker turnaround.

Touché. I might be putting too much value on Mobley, but I was thinking that rebuilding around him would be amazing. I can understand not wanting to blow up the team though. I’m also lower on Wiseman than a lot of posters here, but I still like him. I think the trade here is more of a push for youth, but maybe one that another organization would do.



I agree on the Mobley part (rather, agree on the upside view of him). I like him a lot. I think he can play some 4 until he grows and adds weight as he gets older, but really, it’s the Wiseman add, too that bothers me. I just think that he’d be in the way with Mobley/Goga hypothetically here, and it’s really be a waste of all 3 to have them here. Really, it’s the Wiseman add that bothers me. I think he’s valuable, I just don’t see him as a fit in Indy, even if we deal 2 Centers, as your hypo has us adding another big, too, and I just don’t know that trying to develop 3 big men at the same time is going to end up working out.

Otherwise, I think just the general risk averse nature of the Pacers front office has rubbed off on us fans.
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Re: GSW/IND - Brogdon/Turner to Warriors 

Post#34 » by Wizop » Thu Apr 8, 2021 12:11 am

kalenclayton wrote:I think the trade here is more of a push for youth, but maybe one that another organization would do.


We really don't have an old core. You have us trading away players coming into their prime for prospects.

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Re: GSW/IND - Brogdon/Turner to Warriors 

Post#35 » by Topofthekey » Thu Apr 8, 2021 12:23 am

kalenclayton wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
Wizop wrote:So you think we're sending out Brogdon, Turner, and Sabonis? I doubt any Pacer fan wants to do that.

Sent from my phone.


Rather, if we do, why on Earth would we allow ourselves to be left with Warren (expiring next year) and Levert? Wouldn’t we deal both and rebuild for value, rather than seeing Warren walk to a competitor in a year?

It’s totally fine if y’all don’t like it. I was just saying that I liked the prospect of that rebuild. The value of the trades work and it puts the Pacers into a rebuild with a high ceiling. Of course Warren would be up for sale. We are talking about one trade here, which is usually what we do here. If I were to draw up a Pacers offseason, I would absolutely be selling off Warren. I’d probably keep Levert though. I think he’s a great piece for a rebuild or early playoff contention. As an outsider, I don’t have much of a pulse on the Pacers. I think they have assets that can be used to go into a really good rebuild, but they could also consolidate and push for a better playoff team. I’m hoping the best for the team.

I think the trade has potential. Just got to wait till draft night to see how all the moving parts fall into place

For all we know, the Wolves pick might not even convey

There are just too many variables at this point to really say anything for sure
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Re: GSW/IND - Brogdon/Turner to Warriors 

Post#36 » by kalenclayton » Thu Apr 8, 2021 12:24 am

Scoot McGroot wrote:
kalenclayton wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
One (massive) trade that deals most of the starting lineup in it... :dontknow:

But otherwise, it’s more that it sets us up for a complete bottom out tank for a couple years, and Simon and the Pacers just haven’t shown the willingness to do that, since, well, they bought the team in 83. Plus, I’m not sure that we really want to set ourselves up for another “Oh the Pacers have to deal Wiseman or Mobley ASAP, as they can’t possibly have two guys who project as centers long-term”.

The biggest thing is I think that we’re leaking value a lot around the edges by making a huge 5 man out type deal. Realistically, I’d rather just separate them out and make the best individual deals possible, and I would imagine that we’ll end up getting better fitting pieces for a quicker turnaround.

Touché. I might be putting too much value on Mobley, but I was thinking that rebuilding around him would be amazing. I can understand not wanting to blow up the team though. I’m also lower on Wiseman than a lot of posters here, but I still like him. I think the trade here is more of a push for youth, but maybe one that another organization would do.



I agree on the Mobley part (rather, agree on the upside view of him). I like him a lot. I think he can play some 4 until he grows and adds weight as he gets older, but really, it’s the Wiseman add, too that bothers me. I just think that he’d be in the way with Mobley/Goga hypothetically here, and it’s really be a waste of all 3 to have them here. Really, it’s the Wiseman add that bothers me. I think he’s valuable, I just don’t see him as a fit in Indy, even if we deal 2 Centers, as your hypo has us adding another big, too, and I just don’t know that trying to develop 3 big men at the same time is going to end up working out.

Otherwise, I think just the general risk averse nature of the Pacers front office has rubbed off on us fans.

Totally valid. I’d take risk averse and solid as hell over the terrible management that I’ve observed my Kings team doing over the past decade and a half.

I’m wondering if Wiseman could be routed to a different team to pull in a better fitting piece. I know you just mentioned that the Pacers FO likely wouldn’t do something as bold and risky as this situation, but the thought process is still fun to go through. I guess I’m trying to figure out what team would value Wiseman enough to send a player good enough to make the trade palatable. I’m not sure that exists, but it’s interesting.
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Re: GSW/IND - Brogdon/Turner to Warriors 

Post#37 » by Topofthekey » Thu Apr 8, 2021 12:28 am

kalenclayton wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
kalenclayton wrote:Touché. I might be putting too much value on Mobley, but I was thinking that rebuilding around him would be amazing. I can understand not wanting to blow up the team though. I’m also lower on Wiseman than a lot of posters here, but I still like him. I think the trade here is more of a push for youth, but maybe one that another organization would do.



I agree on the Mobley part (rather, agree on the upside view of him). I like him a lot. I think he can play some 4 until he grows and adds weight as he gets older, but really, it’s the Wiseman add, too that bothers me. I just think that he’d be in the way with Mobley/Goga hypothetically here, and it’s really be a waste of all 3 to have them here. Really, it’s the Wiseman add that bothers me. I think he’s valuable, I just don’t see him as a fit in Indy, even if we deal 2 Centers, as your hypo has us adding another big, too, and I just don’t know that trying to develop 3 big men at the same time is going to end up working out.

Otherwise, I think just the general risk averse nature of the Pacers front office has rubbed off on us fans.

Totally valid. I’d take risk averse and solid as hell over the terrible management that I’ve observed my Kings team doing over the past decade and a half.

I’m wondering if Wiseman could be routed to a different team to pull in a better fitting piece. I know you just mentioned that the Pacers FO likely wouldn’t do something as bold and risky as this situation, but the thought process is still fun to go through. I guess I’m trying to figure out what team would value Wiseman enough to send a player good enough to make the trade palatable. I’m not sure that exists, but it’s interesting.

Yes, that's a much more likely scenario
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Re: GSW/IND - Brogdon/Turner to Warriors 

Post#38 » by Scoot McGroot » Thu Apr 8, 2021 12:58 am

kalenclayton wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
kalenclayton wrote:Touché. I might be putting too much value on Mobley, but I was thinking that rebuilding around him would be amazing. I can understand not wanting to blow up the team though. I’m also lower on Wiseman than a lot of posters here, but I still like him. I think the trade here is more of a push for youth, but maybe one that another organization would do.



I agree on the Mobley part (rather, agree on the upside view of him). I like him a lot. I think he can play some 4 until he grows and adds weight as he gets older, but really, it’s the Wiseman add, too that bothers me. I just think that he’d be in the way with Mobley/Goga hypothetically here, and it’s really be a waste of all 3 to have them here. Really, it’s the Wiseman add that bothers me. I think he’s valuable, I just don’t see him as a fit in Indy, even if we deal 2 Centers, as your hypo has us adding another big, too, and I just don’t know that trying to develop 3 big men at the same time is going to end up working out.

Otherwise, I think just the general risk averse nature of the Pacers front office has rubbed off on us fans.

Totally valid. I’d take risk averse and solid as hell over the terrible management that I’ve observed my Kings team doing over the past decade and a half.

I’m wondering if Wiseman could be routed to a different team to pull in a better fitting piece. I know you just mentioned that the Pacers FO likely wouldn’t do something as bold and risky as this situation, but the thought process is still fun to go through. I guess I’m trying to figure out what team would value Wiseman enough to send a player good enough to make the trade palatable. I’m not sure that exists, but it’s interesting.


I’d have to say that teams like Charlotte and Boston come to mind as center needy. OKC, Miami (if they want to keep Bam at the 4 long term), Toronto, Washington, and maybe even New Orleans and New York could be possibilities looking for a long-term answer at the 5? What’s Sacramento looking at there at the position?

But yeah, I would think that this would have to happen, and he’d have to return something valuable for Indy to consider this. It’s been a long-time since we’ve had a young wing at the 3/4, and we’ve been pretty loaded at the 5 spot for awhile.
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Re: GSW/IND - Brogdon/Turner to Warriors 

Post#39 » by kalenclayton » Thu Apr 8, 2021 1:37 am

Scoot McGroot wrote:
kalenclayton wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:

I agree on the Mobley part (rather, agree on the upside view of him). I like him a lot. I think he can play some 4 until he grows and adds weight as he gets older, but really, it’s the Wiseman add, too that bothers me. I just think that he’d be in the way with Mobley/Goga hypothetically here, and it’s really be a waste of all 3 to have them here. Really, it’s the Wiseman add that bothers me. I think he’s valuable, I just don’t see him as a fit in Indy, even if we deal 2 Centers, as your hypo has us adding another big, too, and I just don’t know that trying to develop 3 big men at the same time is going to end up working out.

Otherwise, I think just the general risk averse nature of the Pacers front office has rubbed off on us fans.

Totally valid. I’d take risk averse and solid as hell over the terrible management that I’ve observed my Kings team doing over the past decade and a half.

I’m wondering if Wiseman could be routed to a different team to pull in a better fitting piece. I know you just mentioned that the Pacers FO likely wouldn’t do something as bold and risky as this situation, but the thought process is still fun to go through. I guess I’m trying to figure out what team would value Wiseman enough to send a player good enough to make the trade palatable. I’m not sure that exists, but it’s interesting.


I’d have to say that teams like Charlotte and Boston come to mind as center needy. OKC, Miami (if they want to keep Bam at the 4 long term), Toronto, Washington, and maybe even New Orleans and New York could be possibilities looking for a long-term answer at the 5? What’s Sacramento looking at there at the position?

But yeah, I would think that this would have to happen, and he’d have to return something valuable for Indy to consider this. It’s been a long-time since we’ve had a young wing at the 3/4, and we’ve been pretty loaded at the 5 spot for awhile.

Sacramento is ok at the 5 so long as Richaun is in town. He’s a little undersized, but his fit is terrific with Fox and Haliburton. If Richaun signs elsewhere on the offseason, then the Kings will be in desperate need for a good post player. I’m not even looking at specifically the 5. Bagley is likely gone and Barnes can only go up to the 4 unless they are matching a really small lineup. I think Wiseman could be a landing spot in theory, but I don’t think the Kings have an asset that would fulfill the need for the Pacers. The Kings will need a player who is mobile, can set good screens on the perimeter, roll hard, and protect the rim. Richaun checks those boxes (although, his rim protection could be a little better. His guards don’t do him many favors though).

As for other teams, I love CHA as a landing spot. CHA: Maybe Washington, Bridges, and a pick?
BOS: yeesh. The value is tough here. Langford, Nesmith? Pick?
OKC: I don’t think they have the value and right fitting players. They only have picks. Maledon and picks doesn’t seem to be what IND wants.
MIA: I don’t see a trade there. The value is an issue and I think MIA is looking for more win-now guys
TOR: they are interesting. OG and Boucher would probably be the ask and I think they decline.
WAS: Very interesting. Something around Avdija and a pick?
NO: Kira Lewis, NAW, and a pick?
NYK: I can’t see the trade. I don’t think they have the pieces. Quickley and Toppin would be the starting point and I don’t like it for IND.

That was harder than expected. Finding the landing spot for Wiseman is really difficult.
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Re: GSW/IND - Brogdon/Turner to Warriors 

Post#40 » by Scoot McGroot » Thu Apr 8, 2021 2:01 am

kalenclayton wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
kalenclayton wrote:Totally valid. I’d take risk averse and solid as hell over the terrible management that I’ve observed my Kings team doing over the past decade and a half.

I’m wondering if Wiseman could be routed to a different team to pull in a better fitting piece. I know you just mentioned that the Pacers FO likely wouldn’t do something as bold and risky as this situation, but the thought process is still fun to go through. I guess I’m trying to figure out what team would value Wiseman enough to send a player good enough to make the trade palatable. I’m not sure that exists, but it’s interesting.


I’d have to say that teams like Charlotte and Boston come to mind as center needy. OKC, Miami (if they want to keep Bam at the 4 long term), Toronto, Washington, and maybe even New Orleans and New York could be possibilities looking for a long-term answer at the 5? What’s Sacramento looking at there at the position?

But yeah, I would think that this would have to happen, and he’d have to return something valuable for Indy to consider this. It’s been a long-time since we’ve had a young wing at the 3/4, and we’ve been pretty loaded at the 5 spot for awhile.

Sacramento is ok at the 5 so long as Richaun is in town. He’s a little undersized, but his fit is terrific with Fox and Haliburton. If Richaun signs elsewhere on the offseason, then the Kings will be in desperate need for a good post player. I’m not even looking at specifically the 5. Bagley is likely gone and Barnes can only go up to the 4 unless they are matching a really small lineup. I think Wiseman could be a landing spot in theory, but I don’t think the Kings have an asset that would fulfill the need for the Pacers. The Kings will need a player who is mobile, can set good screens on the perimeter, roll hard, and protect the rim. Richaun checks those boxes (although, his rim protection could be a little better. His guards don’t do him many favors though).

As for other teams, I love CHA as a landing spot. CHA: Maybe Washington, Bridges, and a pick?
BOS: yeesh. The value is tough here. Langford, Nesmith? Pick?
OKC: I don’t think they have the value and right fitting players. They only have picks. Maledon and picks doesn’t seem to be what IND wants.
MIA: I don’t see a trade there. The value is an issue and I think MIA is looking for more win-now guys
TOR: they are interesting. OG and Boucher would probably be the ask and I think they decline.
WAS: Very interesting. Something around Avdija and a pick?
NO: Kira Lewis, NAW, and a pick?
NYK: I can’t see the trade. I don’t think they have the pieces. Quickley and Toppin would be the starting point and I don’t like it for IND.

That was harder than expected. Finding the landing spot for Wiseman is really difficult.


I mean, we just identified almost a third of the league that would have interest. Making packages work would be the next step, but multiple suitors is nice. Indy would have interest in a Marcus Smart, if Boston were interested. Miami? I don’t know. Herro would be the want. Don’t think that a Robinson S&T/Precious would do it, but there’s chances. Toronto, maybe something around Siakam? Washington has a lot of pieces that could work, between Avdija/Rui and picks. NO has a ton of picks, Lewis and NAW. Something could probably be worked, or a 3rd team involved. Knicks? They have pieces now without going crazy.

Once you add in the possibility that some of these teams could be used in 3 team deals, there’s packages that could work. Plenty of buyers could be drummed up if Wiseman were truly available, I think. But, we’re not nearly at that stage right now.

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