This Offseason GS and Mavs

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This Offseason GS and Mavs 

Post#1 » by Bnice5 » Thu Apr 8, 2021 7:03 pm

Keep reading tidbits online about interest GS has in KP... so here goes.

DAL out: KP
DAL in: Wiseman and Wiggins

GS out: Wiseman and Wiggins
GS in: KP

I am not sure if the value is off one way or the other in this... so not sure if any picks would need to be included.

why for Dallas: I sense some chemistry issues between KP and Luka (odd vibes); they move KP for 2 players that have upside potential and still align to Luka's timeline. This also allows them to focus their free agency efforts on getting a secondary playmaker (Conley, Lowry, etc.)

why for GS: KP is a proven 20/10 player when healthy. Provides stretch big capability and ability to protect the rim. Older and fits a last run window for Curry, Klay, and Green better than Wiseman... Production from Wiggins is more easily replaced in the offseason.

Blast away all you KP haters :lol:
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Re: This Offseason GS and Mavs 

Post#2 » by Texas Chuck » Thu Apr 8, 2021 7:18 pm

Wiggins definitely isn't someone I would characterize as upside potential at this point. Not meaningfully anyway.

I'm not a fan of this for Dallas. This costs them more money and creates bigger holes. Maybe Wiseman is worth taking that step back, but I don't believe the team wants to go that route and I personally don't either.
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Re: This Offseason GS and Mavs 

Post#3 » by KhalilS » Thu Apr 8, 2021 7:19 pm

I hate it, but it's fair value, you trade KP's injury concerns for Wiseman's bust concerns, Wiggins is a serviceable player who's just paid double his worth.
I don't see any team doing it though, KP's main complaint is lack of touches, and he's not getting more with Steph/Klay splashing, Mavs need more production from the 5, since they already have role player at the 4.
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Re: This Offseason GS and Mavs 

Post#4 » by daoneandonly » Thu Apr 8, 2021 7:23 pm

Nobody wants Wiggins, he's a massive negative. Man Dallas lays an egg against Houston and now 2 posts where Dallas eats overpaid guards. At least this one nets them Wiseman, but still wouldn't do it
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Re: This Offseason GS and Mavs 

Post#5 » by Bnice5 » Thu Apr 8, 2021 7:30 pm

From the Dallas fan side, does a current year 1st or future 1st added in do it for you?

With regards to KP wanting touches, the ball seems to flow more in the GS offense than the heliocentric Luka offense Dallas has.
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Re: This Offseason GS and Mavs 

Post#6 » by Texas Chuck » Thu Apr 8, 2021 7:30 pm

daoneandonly wrote:Nobody wants Wiggins, he's a massive negative. Man Dallas lays an egg against Houston and now 2 posts where Dallas eats overpaid guards. At least this one nets them Wiseman, but still wouldn't do it


If I'm guessing this is less about the Mavs losing to Houston where Luka had a rare off-night, Richardson couldn't make a shot and Maxi was out, then it is KP's comments after the game where he seemed once again to be criticizing Luka and Rick without being overt about it.

And just the general vibe between KP and Luka that doesn't seem great and just how hard the Mavs leadership works to praise KP at every turn. May be nothing, but it sure feels like an organization that may be weary of the whole KP experience.

And of course him saying the wrist thing is going to be a problem for the rest of the year but it is what it is doesn't feel great either.
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Re: This Offseason GS and Mavs 

Post#7 » by Texas Chuck » Thu Apr 8, 2021 7:32 pm

Bnice5 wrote:From the Dallas fan side, does a current year 1st or future 1st added in do it for you?

With regards to KP wanting touches, the ball seems to flow more in the GS offense than the heliocentric Luka offense Dallas has.


I agree that KP would be just fine in GSW and would get plenty of open looks playing off Steph.

As to the first, I already think the value is fair as is, I just don't want to do that directionally. So I definitely wouldn't feel right asking GSW to pay more.

I would rather try and send Wiseman/Wiggins to Charlotte for Hayward or something similar if the Warriors had interest in KP.
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Re: This Offseason GS and Mavs 

Post#8 » by daoneandonly » Thu Apr 8, 2021 7:41 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:
daoneandonly wrote:Nobody wants Wiggins, he's a massive negative. Man Dallas lays an egg against Houston and now 2 posts where Dallas eats overpaid guards. At least this one nets them Wiseman, but still wouldn't do it


If I'm guessing this is less about the Mavs losing to Houston where Luka had a rare off-night, Richardson couldn't make a shot and Maxi was out, then it is KP's comments after the game where he seemed once again to be criticizing Luka and Rick without being overt about it.

And just the general vibe between KP and Luka that doesn't seem great and just how hard the Mavs leadership works to praise KP at every turn. May be nothing, but it sure feels like an organization that may be weary of the whole KP experience.

And of course him saying the wrist thing is going to be a problem for the rest of the year but it is what it is doesn't feel great either.


Oh, what did KP say? Haven't heard anything, but I live a ways from Texas
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Re: This Offseason GS and Mavs 

Post#9 » by Texas Chuck » Thu Apr 8, 2021 7:46 pm

daoneandonly wrote:
Texas Chuck wrote:
daoneandonly wrote:Nobody wants Wiggins, he's a massive negative. Man Dallas lays an egg against Houston and now 2 posts where Dallas eats overpaid guards. At least this one nets them Wiseman, but still wouldn't do it


If I'm guessing this is less about the Mavs losing to Houston where Luka had a rare off-night, Richardson couldn't make a shot and Maxi was out, then it is KP's comments after the game where he seemed once again to be criticizing Luka and Rick without being overt about it.

And just the general vibe between KP and Luka that doesn't seem great and just how hard the Mavs leadership works to praise KP at every turn. May be nothing, but it sure feels like an organization that may be weary of the whole KP experience.

And of course him saying the wrist thing is going to be a problem for the rest of the year but it is what it is doesn't feel great either.


Oh, what did KP say? Haven't heard anything, but I live a ways from Texas


He didn't take a shot in the 4th Q and when asked about it, he said I guess its the plays that were called and this isn't the first time. Definitely came across as both Luka and Rick shade. And he paused a long time before giving that answer too. Was his usual passive aggressive routine.
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Re: This Offseason GS and Mavs 

Post#10 » by FNQ » Thu Apr 8, 2021 7:49 pm

daoneandonly wrote:Nobody wants Wiggins, he's a massive negative. Man Dallas lays an egg against Houston and now 2 posts where Dallas eats overpaid guards. At least this one nets them Wiseman, but still wouldn't do it


The whole "Wiggins is a positive asset" discourse happened because of takes like this, which paint Wiggins as a massive net negative player.

You aren't any less wrong than people implying he has positive value when you say things like this
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Re: This Offseason GS and Mavs 

Post#11 » by FNQ » Thu Apr 8, 2021 7:53 pm

Bnice5 wrote:Keep reading tidbits online about interest GS has in KP... so here goes.

DAL out: KP
DAL in: Wiseman and Wiggins

GS out: Wiseman and Wiggins
GS in: KP

I am not sure if the value is off one way or the other in this... so not sure if any picks would need to be included.

why for Dallas: I sense some chemistry issues between KP and Luka (odd vibes); they move KP for 2 players that have upside potential and still align to Luka's timeline. This also allows them to focus their free agency efforts on getting a secondary playmaker (Conley, Lowry, etc.)

why for GS: KP is a proven 20/10 player when healthy. Provides stretch big capability and ability to protect the rim. Older and fits a last run window for Curry, Klay, and Green better than Wiseman... Production from Wiggins is more easily replaced in the offseason.

Blast away all you KP haters :lol:



Nah. Wiggins is very useful for us and banking on Wiseman at his payrate is preferably to banking on KP getting it together.

I'm not sure why people think Wiggins value is easily replaced.. super lengthy good defenders that can score a bit.. how do we replace that exactly? I mean I was told that Oubre was better a lot too, and maybe thats true in some systems, but certainly not in ours. If Wiggins is in a deal and he's downplayed like this, then you really aren't going to get much favorable responses, because you are using the stigma of the player, not what the player's value actually is for us.

And if there's such a wide gap between how the rest of the league sees him, and how the Warriors see him, then its not a good idea to put him in the trade to begin with
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Re: This Offseason GS and Mavs 

Post#12 » by daoneandonly » Thu Apr 8, 2021 8:00 pm

FNQ wrote:
daoneandonly wrote:Nobody wants Wiggins, he's a massive negative. Man Dallas lays an egg against Houston and now 2 posts where Dallas eats overpaid guards. At least this one nets them Wiseman, but still wouldn't do it


The whole "Wiggins is a positive asset" discourse happened because of takes like this, which paint Wiggins as a massive net negative player.

You aren't any less wrong than people implying he has positive value when you say things like this


How so? He isn't great at any aspect of basketball and is on a max deal.
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Re: This Offseason GS and Mavs 

Post#13 » by gswhoops » Thu Apr 8, 2021 8:02 pm

I’m admittedly not a big KP fan, but this isn’t close for me from a Warriors standpoint

My best offer for KP would be something like Wiggins and Paschall, expecting Dallas to reject it
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Re: This Offseason GS and Mavs 

Post#14 » by FNQ » Thu Apr 8, 2021 8:07 pm

daoneandonly wrote:
FNQ wrote:
daoneandonly wrote:Nobody wants Wiggins, he's a massive negative. Man Dallas lays an egg against Houston and now 2 posts where Dallas eats overpaid guards. At least this one nets them Wiseman, but still wouldn't do it


The whole "Wiggins is a positive asset" discourse happened because of takes like this, which paint Wiggins as a massive net negative player.

You aren't any less wrong than people implying he has positive value when you say things like this


How so? He isn't great at any aspect of basketball and is on a max deal.


He's a great and versatile perimeter defender for us. Are people still pushing back on this narrative? Because its been all season.. I'm still waiting for the bad, lazy defender who doesnt rotate well like I was told. He's not a good scoring option except in spurts though, I'd happily admit that.

He's not someone you want if you have cap you want to spend in the next 2 seasons, but as a player? He's a pretty nice contributor. But I have trade value pegged as the highest amount someone would pay for you, not some average.. because that doesnt make any sense to me. If Dallas doesnt want him because they have aspirations with that cap, ok cool.
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Re: This Offseason GS and Mavs 

Post#15 » by FNQ » Thu Apr 8, 2021 8:08 pm

gswhoops wrote:I’m admittedly not a big KP fan, but this isn’t close for me from a Warriors standpoint

My best offer for KP would be something like Wiggins and Paschall, expecting Dallas to reject it


I wouldnt even trade Wiggins straight up for him TBH. Wiggins fits here, does KP?

I understand most teams would probably make that deal, but I definitely wouldn't.
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Re: This Offseason GS and Mavs 

Post#16 » by Bnice5 » Thu Apr 8, 2021 8:14 pm

I think the general feel of this thread is why a deal like this won't happen... the reality is that both KP and Wiggins are useful players that are overpaid (KP because of health, Wiggins because he lacks efficiency/3pt shot on offense)

They are toxic players to talk about on here because their perceived values are so varied... I see Wiggins as a very effective flexible defender that can provide some scoring (essentially a small improvement over DFS for Dallas). I see KP has a very effective stretch 5 that can actually provide rim protection when healthy (he's a damn good player when he plays and much better than Wiseman for GS)...

KP>Wiggins by quite a bit with both on expensive contracts. That means Dallas needs to get more value out of the deal and I see the only thing that would make sense would be adding Wiseman...
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Re: This Offseason GS and Mavs 

Post#17 » by aguiar95 » Thu Apr 8, 2021 8:21 pm

Don't have any interest in any of those players in a Mavs uniform. Value seems a bit light for GSW, but needs a 3rd team to take on what Dallas receives and give us better win-now player(s).
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Re: This Offseason GS and Mavs 

Post#18 » by Warriors Analyst » Thu Apr 8, 2021 8:36 pm

daoneandonly wrote:
FNQ wrote:
daoneandonly wrote:Nobody wants Wiggins, he's a massive negative. Man Dallas lays an egg against Houston and now 2 posts where Dallas eats overpaid guards. At least this one nets them Wiseman, but still wouldn't do it


The whole "Wiggins is a positive asset" discourse happened because of takes like this, which paint Wiggins as a massive net negative player.

You aren't any less wrong than people implying he has positive value when you say things like this


How so? He isn't great at any aspect of basketball and is on a max deal.


Wiggins is a very good defender for us. He just happens to play on a team that is only marginally better than his Minnesota teams with KAT and his role isn't all that different from what it was in Minnesota, therefore his impact stats on offense are pretty much the same.
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Re: This Offseason GS and Mavs 

Post#19 » by JD45 » Thu Apr 8, 2021 9:22 pm

Wiggens is actually having a pretty good season. He is overpaid, but there are much worse contracts in the NBA.

I like it for Dallas. Lots of risk, but could be better in the long run.

The salaries don't match for the trade, so Dallas would have to send more to GSW. Richardson/Powell would work. DFS or Maxi as well, although Dallas would probably want more return if they they were added.
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Re: This Offseason GS and Mavs 

Post#20 » by FNQ » Thu Apr 8, 2021 9:31 pm

Bnice5 wrote:I think the general feel of this thread is why a deal like this won't happen... the reality is that both KP and Wiggins are useful players that are overpaid (KP because of health, Wiggins because he lacks efficiency/3pt shot on offense)

They are toxic players to talk about on here because their perceived values are so varied... I see Wiggins as a very effective flexible defender that can provide some scoring (essentially a small improvement over DFS for Dallas). I see KP has a very effective stretch 5 that can actually provide rim protection when healthy (he's a damn good player when he plays and much better than Wiseman for GS)...

KP>Wiggins by quite a bit with both on expensive contracts. That means Dallas needs to get more value out of the deal and I see the only thing that would make sense would be adding Wiseman...


Nah my problem isn't KP's health. I'm always wary of a C that posts negative DBPM numbers, when it really caters to big men.

We might be able to make it work with Draymond, but he's exiting his prime, not entering it. So we'd probably want to go with a more traditional big man that can protect the paint a lot better. Its not a value issue, its a fit issue

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