Minnesota-Toronto (ARod takes a swing)

[daoneandonly]

Siakam has settled in as a good starter. I wouldn't trade a top 4 pick in this draft for him. This is the opposite of the SGA thread.

I don't know that I would count playing in a different city/away from home for a year + getting covid as settled in. Prior to getting covid he was on a nice roll. If he continues to play like this next year then i'll concede that point. For now I still see him as a (low end) all star next year.

I agree with Go, so many variables at play with Siakam. I'm still high on him, would love him on the Mavs for instance as I think he'd be an incredible 2nd banana to Luka like he was to Kawhi.

[BlazersBroncos]

I cant convince myself that DLo has positive value. He just seems like an empty stat, high usage, non-winning-style basketball player.

[cupcakesnake]

I don't see any team valuing D-Lo as an asset right now. If he's healthy and plays well next season I could see him re-couping some value, but right now he doesn't work in this trade as being worth Siakam - 6-7 draft slots. Masai wasn't a Derozan fan, and I see D'Lo as a similar level asset: big name, big contract, scorer with no defense. Toronto puts a premium on versatility.

Love it for Minne! (That's how I know the trade is unrealistic!). Siakam would be an excellent frontcourt fit with KAT. Siakam as a transition attacker next to Ant and Rubio, a defensive swiss army knife, and a very good secondary/tertiary playmaker fits us great. I do think there are some finds later in the top 10 of the draft (and maybe we can ask Toronto to make the pick for us lol.)

For Toronto, you'd have to really value Evan Mobley (I love the defense, passing and the rim running, and am optimistic about his shooting form), and believe Russell can work. Toronto is the rare team that Russell might be useful on, as they're strong on everything except shot creation. Russell doesn't hurt their spacing like Derozan did, and this team has more defense than they did with Derozan. Even losing Pascal, they'd still be slotting in Russell next to OG and FVV. Mobley probably wont be a plus defender in year 1, but Toronto might be the best place to develop defensively.

Would you move DLo and #2 or #3 to Memphis for Clarke, #17 2021 (a few decent PGs should be available there)?

What?! Minne sends out a top 3 pick for Clarke??? You think I want off D-Lo that badly?
Hey I love Clarke but I'll have to assume you're joking.

[E S V L]

I don't see any team valuing D-Lo as an asset right now. If he's healthy and plays well next season I could see him re-couping some value, but right now he doesn't work in this trade as being worth Siakam - 6-7 draft slots. Masai wasn't a Derozan fan, and I see D'Lo as a similar level asset: big name, big contract, scorer with no defense. Toronto puts a premium on versatility.

Love it for Minne! (That's how I know the trade is unrealistic!). Siakam would be an excellent frontcourt fit with KAT. Siakam as a transition attacker next to Ant and Rubio, a defensive swiss army knife, and a very good secondary/tertiary playmaker fits us great. I do think there are some finds later in the top 10 of the draft (and maybe we can ask Toronto to make the pick for us lol.)

For Toronto, you'd have to really value Evan Mobley (I love the defense, passing and the rim running, and am optimistic about his shooting form), and believe Russell can work. Toronto is the rare team that Russell might be useful on, as they're strong on everything except shot creation. Russell doesn't hurt their spacing like Derozan did, and this team has more defense than they did with Derozan. Even losing Pascal, they'd still be slotting in Russell next to OG and FVV. Mobley probably wont be a plus defender in year 1, but Toronto might be the best place to develop defensively.

Would you move DLo and #2 or #3 to Memphis for Clarke, #17 2021 (a few decent PGs should be available there)?

What?! Minne sends out a top 3 pick for Clarke??? You think I want off D-Lo that badly?
Hey I love Clarke but I'll have to assume you're joking.

You wrote "Love it for Minne", so I decided that you might be also interested in another PF who matches Toews. If you aren`t interested in offloading D-Lo, I don`t know how to get your attention. The very best I can do is to attach multiple 1sts to Clarke, but I have no expectations that it can give me #3. I am leaving this thread then

[cupcakesnake]

Would you move DLo and #2 or #3 to Memphis for Clarke, #17 2021 (a few decent PGs should be available there)?

What?! Minne sends out a top 3 pick for Clarke??? You think I want off D-Lo that badly?
Hey I love Clarke but I'll have to assume you're joking.

You wrote "Love it for Minne", so I decided that you might be also interested in another PF who matches Toews. If you aren`t interested in offloading D-Lo, I don`t know how to get your attention. The very best I can do is to attach multiple 1sts to Clarke, but I have no expectations that it can give me #3. I am leaving this thread then

Sorry didn't mean to be rude!
It's a matter of Clarke not being in the same category of talent. He took a noticeable step back this year, despite having a big opportunity with JJJ out. I'm not sure what Clarke injury status (I know he's struggled with his calf). Siakam has been an all-star, and there's no guarantee Clarke ever reaches that level. He's not the kind of player you give up a top 3 pick to get. Even Siakam feels like a bit of a stretch, but the fit with Towns seems pretty nice and we need to be decent next year to avoid losing our pick (if we don't lose it this year).

[shrink]

A top pick in this draft could be on your team for 7-9 years.

You don’t trade it away to get off a couple years of bad money.

You know, like Rosas did to get off of Wiggins.

[Wolveswin]

If Wolves retain their 1st (40% chance) they have to keep it. Only 1 exception (see below).

They have to keep it and see what the teams looks like for at least one season. Why? If they look good, all is well in the North. If they suck (and gift GSW an amazing unprotected 2022 1st), Towns is starting to ask out. Then Rosas (or most likely new GM) hand is forced and Wolves build around Edwards, 2021 top 3, and what they can get for Towns.

Only scenario in which Wolves trade 2021 top 3 is attached to Edwards and for a young (26 and younger) locked in star who is top 25 in NBA already. That qualified list is short. But this is Rosas chance of showing KAT he is all in on building around him.

And Siakam is not that guy.

[E S V L]

What?! Minne sends out a top 3 pick for Clarke??? You think I want off D-Lo that badly?
Hey I love Clarke but I'll have to assume you're joking.

You wrote "Love it for Minne", so I decided that you might be also interested in another PF who matches Toews. If you aren`t interested in offloading D-Lo, I don`t know how to get your attention. The very best I can do is to attach multiple 1sts to Clarke, but I have no expectations that it can give me #3. I am leaving this thread then

Sorry didn't mean to be rude!
It's a matter of Clarke not being in the same category of talent. He took a noticeable step back this year, despite having a big opportunity with JJJ out. I'm not sure what Clarke injury status (I know he's struggled with his calf). Siakam has been an all-star, and there's no guarantee Clarke ever reaches that level. He's not the kind of player you give up a top 3 pick to get. Even Siakam feels like a bit of a stretch, but the fit with Towns seems pretty nice and we need to be decent next year to avoid losing our pick (if we don't lose it this year).

It makes total sense. No worries. Can I add my 2 cents as an outside person?
1. Sjakam isn`t worth #3, even #5.
2. Sjakam doesn`t fit Toews as he is soft and lacks strength both mental and physical. You would get another DLo. You should pursue Simmons with this pick.

[zimpy27]

I don't dislike it. I feel like DLo has more value than currently because of injury.

But KAT wants DLo so Minny trading him doesn't make sense

[Zan Tabacco]

If Wolves retain their 1st (40% chance) they have to keep it. Only 1 exception (see below).

They have to keep it and see what the teams looks like for at least one season. Why? If they look good, all is well in the North. If they suck (and gift GSW an amazing unprotected 2022 1st), Towns is starting to ask out. Then Rosas (or most likely new GM) hand is forced and Wolves build around Edwards, 2021 top 3, and what they can get for Towns.

Only scenario in which Wolves trade 2021 top 3 is attached to Edwards and for a young (26 and younger) locked in star who is top 25 in NBA already. That qualified list is short. But this is Rosas chance of showing KAT he is all in on building around him.

And Siakam is not that guy.

You're basically describing Siakam pre-pandemic. Top 25 player, 26 or younger, locked in, perfect fit next to Towns, 2nd option on a championship team, all-star, all-NBA, putting up 25 PPG on good efficiency, great defender. I get his value has taken a hit, but I'm willing to bet he turns it around next year, he's just not a number 1 option.

As for the Wolves they have to go for it. Not saying they need to trade the pick for Siakam, but they need to make a win now move or start thinking about moving KAT. The clock is ticking in Minnesota.

[Slim Charless]

A top pick in this draft could be on your team for 7-9 years.

You don’t trade it away to get off a couple years of bad money.

You know, like Rosas did to get off of Wiggins.

You're not trading the pick to get rid of Dlo

You're also getting a 2nd team all NBA PF (the biggest hole on your team) who can play defense at an elite level while producing points being the 2nd/3rd banana on the team. Siakam is almost the perfect PF to put next to KAT. Since him and Dlo are so close, he'll probably veto this deal but if not seems like a good move on paper.

[Slim Charless]

I don't dislike it. I feel like DLo has more value than currently because of injury.

But KAT wants DLo so Minny trading him doesn't make sense

That, to me seems like the biggest problem here. KAT and Dlo being boys. I wonder what Wolves and Rap fans would think of the deal if instead it was A1 and filler for Siakam? Rubio and Dlo at the backcourt and Siakam and KAT as the 4/5.

[shrink]

A top pick in this draft could be on your team for 7-9 years.

You don’t trade it away to get off a couple years of bad money.

You know, like Rosas did to get off of Wiggins.

You're not trading the pick to get rid of Dlo

You're also getting a 2nd team all NBA PF (the biggest hole on your team) who can play defense at an elite level while producing points being the 2nd/3rd banana on the team. Siakam is almost the perfect PF to put next to KAT. Since him and Dlo are so close, he'll probably veto this deal but if not seems like a good move on paper.

I should have worded that better.

Teams don’t like to downgrade a top asset by combining it with a top liability.

I’m not saying this is a good deal for TOR. I am saying the structure of the deal is unlikely for MIN.

[Wolveswin]

If Wolves retain their 1st (40% chance) they have to keep it. Only 1 exception (see below).

They have to keep it and see what the teams looks like for at least one season. Why? If they look good, all is well in the North. If they suck (and gift GSW an amazing unprotected 2022 1st), Towns is starting to ask out. Then Rosas (or most likely new GM) hand is forced and Wolves build around Edwards, 2021 top 3, and what they can get for Towns.

Only scenario in which Wolves trade 2021 top 3 is attached to Edwards and for a young (26 and younger) locked in star who is top 25 in NBA already. That qualified list is short. But this is Rosas chance of showing KAT he is all in on building around him.

And Siakam is not that guy.

You're basically describing Siakam pre-pandemic. Top 25 player, 26 or younger, locked in, perfect fit next to Towns, 2nd option on a championship team, all-star, all-NBA, putting up 25 PPG on good efficiency, great defender. I get his value has taken a hit, but I'm willing to bet he turns it around next year, he's just not a number 1 option.

As for the Wolves they have to go for it. Not saying they need to trade the pick for Siakam, but they need to make a win now move or start thinking about moving KAT. The clock is ticking in Minnesota.

As many have said in this thread, Siakam is not a perfect fit with Towns.

He is 27. Not old, but do the Wolves want to all-in trade for a player who will be 30 when they try and re-sign him (as to not lose him as a 3 year rental).

Siakam isn’t the guy Wolves are looking for.

[Godaddycurse]

.

He is 27. Not old, but do the Wolves want to all-in trade for a player who will be 30 when they try and re-sign him (as to not lose him as a 3 year rental).

Siakam isn’t the guy Wolves are looking for.

Lol what the hell is a 3 yr rental? This isnt baseball where people can sign 10 yr contracts. The most you can get in FA is 4 yrs for any established/non rookie scale players

[Wolveswin]

.

He is 27. Not old, but do the Wolves want to all-in trade for a player who will be 30 when they try and re-sign him (as to not lose him as a 3 year rental).

Siakam isn’t the guy Wolves are looking for.

Lol what the hell is a 3 yr rental? This isnt baseball where people can sign 10 yr contracts. The most you can get in FA is 4 yrs

Someone forgot to take his smart pill and put on his thinking cap. The asset Wolves would be trading away is a rookie 9 years of potential team control to Siakam 3.

That is a 3 year rental if Sikam walks and Wolves lose 6 years of a top 3 pick team control.

[Zan Tabacco]

If Wolves retain their 1st (40% chance) they have to keep it. Only 1 exception (see below).

They have to keep it and see what the teams looks like for at least one season. Why? If they look good, all is well in the North. If they suck (and gift GSW an amazing unprotected 2022 1st), Towns is starting to ask out. Then Rosas (or most likely new GM) hand is forced and Wolves build around Edwards, 2021 top 3, and what they can get for Towns.

Only scenario in which Wolves trade 2021 top 3 is attached to Edwards and for a young (26 and younger) locked in star who is top 25 in NBA already. That qualified list is short. But this is Rosas chance of showing KAT he is all in on building around him.

And Siakam is not that guy.

You're basically describing Siakam pre-pandemic. Top 25 player, 26 or younger, locked in, perfect fit next to Towns, 2nd option on a championship team, all-star, all-NBA, putting up 25 PPG on good efficiency, great defender. I get his value has taken a hit, but I'm willing to bet he turns it around next year, he's just not a number 1 option.

As for the Wolves they have to go for it. Not saying they need to trade the pick for Siakam, but they need to make a win now move or start thinking about moving KAT. The clock is ticking in Minnesota.

As many have said in this thread, Siakam is not a perfect fit with Towns.

He is 27. Not old, but do the Wolves want to all-in trade for a player who will be 30 when they try and re-sign him (as to not lose him as a 3 year rental).

Siakam isn’t the guy Wolves are looking for.

He turned 27 a week ago my bad.

[Godaddycurse]

.

He is 27. Not old, but do the Wolves want to all-in trade for a player who will be 30 when they try and re-sign him (as to not lose him as a 3 year rental).

Siakam isn’t the guy Wolves are looking for.

Lol what the hell is a 3 yr rental? This isnt baseball where people can sign 10 yr contracts. The most you can get in FA is 4 yrs

Someone forgot to take his smart pill and put on his thinking cap. The asset Wolves would be trading away is a rookie 9 years of potential team control to Siakam 3.

That is a 3 year rental if Sikam walks and Wolves lose 6 years of a top 3 pick team control.

There are tons of busts or people who never reach all star in top 3s of drafts in the past. For all we know those 6 years could net you nothing. My point is regardless of whatever star you pursue you won't get much more than 3 yrs of contract remaining. By your logic you shouldnt trade the pick at all period because anyone else coming in would be a rental too.

[Wolveswin]

Lol what the hell is a 3 yr rental? This isnt baseball where people can sign 10 yr contracts. The most you can get in FA is 4 yrs

Someone forgot to take his smart pill and put on his thinking cap. The asset Wolves would be trading away is a rookie 9 years of potential team control to Siakam 3.

That is a 3 year rental if Sikam walks and Wolves lose 6 years of a top 3 pick team control.

There are tons of busts or people who never reach all star in top 3s of drafts in the past. For all we know those 6 years could net you nothing. My point is regardless of whatever star you pursue you won't get much more than 3 yrs of contract remaining. By your logic you shouldnt trade the pick at all period because anyone else coming in would be a rental too.

Again you are not reading my post correctly.

Siakam, or any star Wolves trade their pick for, needs to be retained on a second Wolves contract (as to not be rental no matter how many years on current deal said player has). In Siakam’s case they would be facing him bolting in 3 short years (compared to 9) and the fact his next 4 year contract offered by Wolves would be to a player they traded a very high draft pick for and he would be 30 (and 34 by end of his next deal).

His lack of fit with Towns, 3 years left on contract (better than 2 worse than 4 or 5 and much worse than 9), and on the wrong end of age range Wolves would ideally want to trade their cost controlled 19yo top 3 pick for — are all reasons not to consider Siakam as an all-in trade candidate.

[Godaddycurse]

Someone forgot to take his smart pill and put on his thinking cap. The asset Wolves would be trading away is a rookie 9 years of potential team control to Siakam 3.

That is a 3 year rental if Sikam walks and Wolves lose 6 years of a top 3 pick team control.

There are tons of busts or people who never reach all star in top 3s of drafts in the past. For all we know those 6 years could net you nothing. My point is regardless of whatever star you pursue you won't get much more than 3 yrs of contract remaining. By your logic you shouldnt trade the pick at all period because anyone else coming in would be a rental too.

Again you are not reading my post correctly.

Siakam, or any star Wolves trade their pick for, needs to be retained on a second Wolves contract (as to not be rental no matter how many years on current deal said player has). In Siakam’s case they would be facing him bolting in 3 short years (compared to 9) and the fact his next 4 year contract offered by Wolves would be to a player they traded a very high draft pick for and he would be 30 (and 34 by end of his next deal).

His lack of fit with Towns, 3 years left on contract (better than 2 worse than 4 or 5 and much worse than 9), and on the wrong end of age range Wolves would ideally want to trade their cost controlled 19yo top 3 pick for — are all reasons not to consider Siakam as an all-in trade candidate.

but my point wasn't about siakam per se. just pointing that no matter what stars you trade for the contract is likely in the 2-3 years range. If team control is that important to you then you should keep the pick and not go all in (i actually dont think wolves should go all in either).