Objectively, what Knicks package is fair for Lillard's value?

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Objectively, what Knicks package is fair for Lillard's value? 

Post#1 » by zimpy27 » Sat May 1, 2021 9:01 pm

There is a rumour that Knicks are interested in trading for Lillard. Removing the fact of the emotional ties of Lillard to the team and the improbability of them trading him because of that, what package is enough to get Lillard based on what he brings on the basketball court?

Selection to choose from:

Barrett
Toppin
Mitch
Quickley
Knox
Ntilikina
Knicks 4 FRPs (21, 23, 25, 27)
Knicks 3 FRP swaps (22, 24, 26)
Mavs 2 FRP (21, 23)

Note that Knicks can absorb salary so salary relief is also an option.
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Re: Objectively, what Knicks package is fair for Lillard's value? 

Post#2 » by MoneyTalks41890 » Sat May 1, 2021 9:05 pm

Honestly? All of that
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Re: Objectively, what Knicks package is fair for Lillard's value? 

Post#3 » by KhalilS » Sat May 1, 2021 9:10 pm

Remove Barret and Mitch, that a boatload of picks, and a lottery pick in Toppin.
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Re: Objectively, what Knicks package is fair for Lillard's value? 

Post#4 » by zimpy27 » Sat May 1, 2021 9:40 pm

Based on Harden and Jrue trade but adding a bit more

Toppin, Quickley, Knox, 4 FRPs, 3 FRP swaps

That would be my guess.
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Re: Objectively, what Knicks package is fair for Lillard's value? 

Post#5 » by Magic_Johnny12 » Sat May 1, 2021 9:54 pm

zimpy27 wrote:Based on Harden and Jrue trade but adding a bit more

Toppin, Quickley, Knox, 4 FRPs, 3 FRP swaps

That would be my guess.


I would swap Knox who currently holds negative value with Robinson.

Toppin, Quickley, Robinson plus a plethora of FRP’s which includes swaps should do the trick if in fact Portland is entertaining offers.

I would imagine though NOP can offer a very similar if not better trade, but at the end of the day Lillard will choose where he’s going and I would imagine New York would be at the top of his list with all things considered.
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Re: Objectively, what Knicks package is fair for Lillard's value? 

Post#6 » by JRoy » Sat May 1, 2021 10:04 pm

There is no combination of NYK assets that gets Lillard.
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Re: Objectively, what Knicks package is fair for Lillard's value? 

Post#7 » by babyjax13 » Sat May 1, 2021 10:12 pm

Barrett + Quickley + 2 1sts seems like it would be competitive with any offer Portland would get.
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Re: Objectively, what Knicks package is fair for Lillard's value? 

Post#8 » by cgf » Sat May 1, 2021 10:44 pm

babyjax13 wrote:Barrett + Quickley + 2 1sts seems like it would be competitive with any offer Portland would get.

It would also blow out of the water what Harden just cost.
dogrufus wrote:Plus the win would put us at .500 and 5 straight wins, making every poster here cream in their pants.

We're Knicks fans. We never get to cream.


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Re: Objectively, what Knicks package is fair for Lillard's value? 

Post#9 » by babyjax13 » Sat May 1, 2021 10:51 pm

cgf wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:Barrett + Quickley + 2 1sts seems like it would be competitive with any offer Portland would get.

It would also blow out of the water what Harden just cost.


Harden was demanding to be traded, had quit on the team, created a toxic environment, was a huge distraction, and realistically could opt out after a season and a half. They are completely different situations. And Houston got absolutely reamed because they REFUSED to deal with Philly. I don't think we should compare what Portland would get to what a team run by Tilman Fertita got.
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Re: Objectively, what Knicks package is fair for Lillard's value? 

Post#10 » by cgf » Sat May 1, 2021 10:55 pm

babyjax13 wrote:
cgf wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:Barrett + Quickley + 2 1sts seems like it would be competitive with any offer Portland would get.

It would also blow out of the water what Harden just cost.


Harden was demanding to be traded, had quit on the team, created a toxic environment, was a huge distraction, and realistically could opt out after a season and a half. They are completely different situations. And Houston got absolutely reamed because they REFUSED to deal with Philly. I don't think we should compare what Portland would get to what a team run by Tilman Fertita got.

Fair enough, we can move on from Harden; what's the comparable to what you are suggesting? The AD deal is the only one that springs to mind for me and age/size/Lebron make it hard for me to buy Dame warranting an AD-type package.
dogrufus wrote:Plus the win would put us at .500 and 5 straight wins, making every poster here cream in their pants.

We're Knicks fans. We never get to cream.


cgmw wrote:Basically, in conclusion: I'd like Dolan to get off my lawn.
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Re: Objectively, what Knicks package is fair for Lillard's value? 

Post#11 » by Apz » Sat May 1, 2021 10:58 pm

Lillard in the east guarentees playoff atleast every year. Knicks are decent this year, thry should build on it. Trade all thrm 7 first rounders if necessary to get him to add to the team they have
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Re: Objectively, what Knicks package is fair for Lillard's value? 

Post#12 » by JJ_PR » Sat May 1, 2021 11:25 pm

zimpy27 wrote:There is a rumour that Knicks are interested in trading for Lillard. Removing the fact of the emotional ties of Lillard to the team and the improbability of them trading him because of that, what package is enough to get Lillard based on what he brings on the basketball court?

Selection to choose from:

Barrett
Toppin
Mitch
Quickley
Knox
Ntilikina
Knicks 4 FRPs (21, 23, 25, 27)
Knicks 3 FRP swaps (22, 24, 26)
Mavs 2 FRP (21, 23)


Note that Knicks can absorb salary so salary relief is also an option.


All of that. Portland has all the leverage here.
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Re: Objectively, what Knicks package is fair for Lillard's value? 

Post#13 » by babyjax13 » Sat May 1, 2021 11:36 pm

cgf wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:
cgf wrote:It would also blow out of the water what Harden just cost.


Harden was demanding to be traded, had quit on the team, created a toxic environment, was a huge distraction, and realistically could opt out after a season and a half. They are completely different situations. And Houston got absolutely reamed because they REFUSED to deal with Philly. I don't think we should compare what Portland would get to what a team run by Tilman Fertita got.

Fair enough, we can move on from Harden; what's the comparable to what you are suggesting? The AD deal is the only one that springs to mind for me and age/size/Lebron make it hard for me to buy Dame warranting an AD-type package.


I think that's a better comp. Let's just say the 1sts are the New York and Dallas first this season for the sake of argument (21/22).

RJ = Ingram
Quickley < Ball
21st pick = 2021 LAL 1st
22nd pick = Hart

So, that part is well and good, not much of a difference...BUT, LA also included:

4th pick (De'Andre Hunter) > traded for NAW (17), Jaxson Hayes (8), 2020 CLE 1st (top 10 protected, 2 2nds)
2023 pick swap (irrelevant unless LBJ + AD get injured)
2024 1st

That's a fair amount of value on top. And, perhaps New York can keep Quickley or one of the firsts in this scenario, I think there is room for negotiation, but I don't really see why Portland would make a trade that did not include RJ.
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Re: Objectively, what Knicks package is fair for Lillard's value? 

Post#14 » by Myth » Sat May 1, 2021 11:47 pm

I would be upset if Portland traded Lillard for every asset the Knicks have.
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Re: Objectively, what Knicks package is fair for Lillard's value? 

Post#15 » by youngcrev » Sun May 2, 2021 12:04 am

I don't think there is a fair package that they could offer for a player of that caliber. There are packages that would get them to the table in the event that Lillard demanded out, but that's a different situation.
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Re: Objectively, what Knicks package is fair for Lillard's value? 

Post#16 » by zimpy27 » Sun May 2, 2021 1:09 am

babyjax13 wrote:
cgf wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:
Harden was demanding to be traded, had quit on the team, created a toxic environment, was a huge distraction, and realistically could opt out after a season and a half. They are completely different situations. And Houston got absolutely reamed because they REFUSED to deal with Philly. I don't think we should compare what Portland would get to what a team run by Tilman Fertita got.

Fair enough, we can move on from Harden; what's the comparable to what you are suggesting? The AD deal is the only one that springs to mind for me and age/size/Lebron make it hard for me to buy Dame warranting an AD-type package.


I think that's a better comp. Let's just say the 1sts are the New York and Dallas first this season for the sake of argument (21/22).

RJ = Ingram
Quickley < Ball
21st pick = 2021 LAL 1st
22nd pick = Hart

So, that part is well and good, not much of a difference...BUT, LA also included:

4th pick (De'Andre Hunter) > traded for NAW (17), Jaxson Hayes (8), 2020 CLE 1st (top 10 protected, 2 2nds)
2021 1st (9-30 protected, unprotected)
2023 pick swap (irrelevant unless LBJ + AD get injured)
2024 1st

That's a fair amount of value on top. And, perhaps New York can keep Quickley or one of the firsts in this scenario, I think there is room for negotiation, but I don't really see why Portland would make a trade that did not include RJ.


I'd say RJ, Quickley, pick 21+22 was worth more than Ingram, Ball, Hart and 2021 1st at the time of the trade as compared to them right now. Not only because of RJ and Quickley's games but how young they are, Ingram was on last year of deal.

I'd probably have it as:
RJ = pick 4 in 2019
Quickley = Ball
21st+22nd pick = Hart+2021 LAL FRP
Ingram = Toppin + 2 FRP

So RJ, Quickley, Toppin, pick 21+22, Mavs 23 FRP, Knicks 23 FRP

Seems about right as comparison to AD but AD was much younger than Dame.
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Re: Objectively, what Knicks package is fair for Lillard's value? 

Post#17 » by cgf » Sun May 2, 2021 1:24 am

Should the pricetag for a 30yo PG be comparable to the one that the Lakers paid for their 25yo C? Especially when adding AD was likely part of the pitch that brought LeBron to LA in the first place and they had to capitalize before age finally caught up to LBJ.

We don't have as much pressure to make this move asap regardless of the price, and I just can't agree that a 30yo Dame should have comparable trade value to a 25yo AD. So I'm having a tough time buying that the AD trade is any better a comparable than the Harden one.
dogrufus wrote:Plus the win would put us at .500 and 5 straight wins, making every poster here cream in their pants.

We're Knicks fans. We never get to cream.


cgmw wrote:Basically, in conclusion: I'd like Dolan to get off my lawn.
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Re: Objectively, what Knicks package is fair for Lillard's value? 

Post#18 » by Brandon-Clyde » Sun May 2, 2021 1:51 am

cgf wrote:Should the pricetag for a 30yo PG be comparable to the one that the Lakers paid for their 25yo C? Especially when adding AD was likely part of the pitch that brought LeBron to LA in the first place and they had to capitalize before age finally caught up to LBJ.

We don't have as much pressure to make this move asap regardless of the price, and I just can't agree that a 30yo Dame should have comparable trade value to a 25yo AD. So I'm having a tough time buying that the AD trade is any better a comparable than the Harden one.

LeBron signed with LA a whole year before the AD trade, LA tried to obtain Kawhi first and only switched to AD later, AD had demanded a trade and was being disruptive to the team, was in the final year of his deal before becoming a UFA and was demanding LA as his destination.
Lillard hasn't demanded a trade, is signed long term and has played like an MVP candidate most of the season
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Re: Objectively, what Knicks package is fair for Lillard's value? 

Post#19 » by JRoy » Sun May 2, 2021 1:53 am

A handful of mid FRP and bottom half of the roster filling does not get an all nba player in his prime.

This offer is trash.
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Re: Objectively, what Knicks package is fair for Lillard's value? 

Post#20 » by kuclas » Sun May 2, 2021 2:07 am

If lillard demands a trade, Portland will have to trade him regardless of how many years left in contract. Just the way the nba works with their star players. The star players have all the leverage. Of course Portland would try to get as much as they can. Knicks Will off load any of their players plus future draft picks outside of Barrett and Randle. Everyone else is tradeable. Is is fair? No. No amount of trade is ever fair with a true top 7-10 consistent nba star like lillard.

Now the Paul George trade to Clippers is interesting value (coming off 3rd in nba mvp voting). 5 first round picks plus pick swaps plus SGA. That’s a haul. But it was really a 2 for 1 deal since K Leonard came with the package. So we can’t compare that trade either.

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