Objectively, what Knicks package is fair for Lillard's value?

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Re: Objectively, what Knicks package is fair for Lillard's value? 

Post#41 » by NYG » Sun May 2, 2021 11:45 pm

SuperflyKnick wrote:
NYG wrote:Aside from Philly, I do wonder who could top Quickley, Toppin, ‘21 Mavs 1st, ‘21 Knicks 1st, ‘22 Knicks 1st, ‘23 Mavs Conditional 1st, ‘23 Swap, ‘24 Knicks 1st, ‘25 swap, ‘26 1st, ‘27 swap and ‘28 1st

That’s (including the 2020 draft) 9 1sts and 3 swaps... which teams aside Philly beat that?



New York passes ... they are finally building a team from ground up and should do it the right way.... wait for 22 off-season to sign a star without giving up decAde of draft picks along with paying aging lilliard 55 mil a year


I agree, you don't give up the farm for your second option on a championship team like Lillard unless your first option on a championship team is already in place which it isn't for NY. Keep in mind Brooklyn had KD, Milwaukee had Giannis, Lakers had LeBron, etc. when they gave up their hauls for Harden, Jrue and AD.
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Re: Objectively, what Knicks package is fair for Lillard's value? 

Post#42 » by Prokorov » Mon May 3, 2021 6:56 pm

zimpy27 wrote:There is a rumour that Knicks are interested in trading for Lillard. Removing the fact of the emotional ties of Lillard to the team and the improbability of them trading him because of that, what package is enough to get Lillard based on what he brings on the basketball court?

Selection to choose from:

Barrett
Toppin
Mitch
Quickley
Knox
Ntilikina
Knicks 4 FRPs (21, 23, 25, 27)
Knicks 3 FRP swaps (22, 24, 26)

Mavs 2 FRP (21, 23)

Note that Knicks can absorb salary so salary relief is also an option.


I think it would take the highlighted.

Similar to the Harden situation, only dame isnt demanding out/forcing his way to the knicks like Harden was. So id think it would take a bit more then what got harden (4 picks, 3 swaps, allen, levert)
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Re: Objectively, what Knicks package is fair for Lillard's value? 

Post#43 » by jimmy keys » Mon May 3, 2021 8:22 pm

JRoy wrote:
NYG wrote:Aside from Philly, I do wonder who could top Quickley, Toppin, ‘21 Mavs 1st, ‘21 Knicks 1st, ‘22 Knicks 1st, ‘23 Mavs Conditional 1st, ‘23 Swap, ‘24 Knicks 1st, ‘25 swap, ‘26 1st, ‘27 swap and ‘28 1st

That’s (including the 2020 draft) 9 1sts and 3 swaps... which teams aside Philly beat that?


Classic example of a handful of mediocre assets.

What team is trading/trading for picks 7 years out?


Um the Clippers, Lakers and Brooklyn all have recently. Basically 4 picks + 3 swaps has become the minimum for a top 10 player.
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Re: Objectively, what Knicks package is fair for Lillard's value? 

Post#44 » by JRoy » Mon May 3, 2021 9:01 pm

jimmy keys wrote:
JRoy wrote:
NYG wrote:Aside from Philly, I do wonder who could top Quickley, Toppin, ‘21 Mavs 1st, ‘21 Knicks 1st, ‘22 Knicks 1st, ‘23 Mavs Conditional 1st, ‘23 Swap, ‘24 Knicks 1st, ‘25 swap, ‘26 1st, ‘27 swap and ‘28 1st

That’s (including the 2020 draft) 9 1sts and 3 swaps... which teams aside Philly beat that?


Classic example of a handful of mediocre assets.

What team is trading/trading for picks 7 years out?


Um the Clippers, Lakers and Brooklyn all have recently. Basically 4 picks + 3 swaps has become the minimum for a top 10 player.


Most of those guys were FA who wanted out. Neither of which apply to Lillard.
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Re: Objectively, what Knicks package is fair for Lillard's value? 

Post#45 » by zimpy27 » Mon May 3, 2021 11:55 pm

Prokorov wrote:
zimpy27 wrote:There is a rumour that Knicks are interested in trading for Lillard. Removing the fact of the emotional ties of Lillard to the team and the improbability of them trading him because of that, what package is enough to get Lillard based on what he brings on the basketball court?

Selection to choose from:

Barrett
Toppin
Mitch
Quickley
Knox
Ntilikina
Knicks 4 FRPs (21, 23, 25, 27)
Knicks 3 FRP swaps (22, 24, 26)

Mavs 2 FRP (21, 23)

Note that Knicks can absorb salary so salary relief is also an option.


I think it would take the highlighted.

Similar to the Harden situation, only dame isnt demanding out/forcing his way to the knicks like Harden was. So id think it would take a bit more then what got harden (4 picks, 3 swaps, allen, levert)


I think Harden was actually for Allen, LeVert, Prince, Kurucs (3 picks, 4 swaps).

So comparison would be Mitch, Toppin, Knox, Ntilikina (SnT), 3 Knicks FRPs (22, 24, 26), 4 FRP swaps (21,23,25,27)
- I'd add 1 Mavs FRP because Lillard isn't asking out but also Harden is better than Lillard.
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Re: Objectively, what Knicks package is fair for Lillard's value? 

Post#46 » by Tim Lehrbach » Tue May 4, 2021 12:40 am

NYG wrote:
JRoy wrote:He’s about the 10th best player in the league.

Pretty sure it would be Simmons plus to get him if he asked out.


Taking the Philly offer off the table what would you say are the top 3 or so Lillard offers that work cap wise?


If Lillard and the Blazers agreed to give up and part ways, and if Philadelphia didn't offer Simmons, then I think the Blazers would let him go home to play with Steph and co. provided the Warriors offer up all their assets to go with Wiggins as the salary match.

Here's that offer, plus three ideas I just pulled out of the air for consideration. I didn't take cap closely into account because the Blazers and each of these teams have salary filler to easily add as appropriate. Also, the Blazers might well send Nurkic or Covington with Dame in the right deal.

Wiseman, Wiggins, Poole, ALL THE PICKS (inc. Minny and distant GSW picks) from Golden State
Ball S&T, Kira, Hart, Hayes, Adams, picks galore from New Orleans
Sabonis, Lamb, McConnell from Indiana
Brown, Pritchard, G. Williams from Boston

I like the top piece in each of these deals, and all come with considerable additional goodies. I only included teams I think Lillard could reasonably accept being traded to, since I don't think any team without a shot at contention would trade for a guy presumably asking out of a solid, winning organization because he can't win a championship there.

It should be noted that I'm game for entertaining any ideas, but I'd be astonished (and crushed) if Lillard was traded during his prime. Keeping Lillard and trying to build the best roster possible around him is still preferred to any of the above options or any others I've heard floated.
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Re: Objectively, what Knicks package is fair for Lillard's value? 

Post#47 » by jimmy keys » Tue May 4, 2021 12:41 am

JRoy wrote:
jimmy keys wrote:
JRoy wrote:
Classic example of a handful of mediocre assets.

What team is trading/trading for picks 7 years out?


Um the Clippers, Lakers and Brooklyn all have recently. Basically 4 picks + 3 swaps has become the minimum for a top 10 player.


Most of those guys were FA who wanted out. Neither of which apply to Lillard.


I'm just saying that's the bare minimum now for a player of that caliber. If Lillard were moved it would include additional assets I'm sure.
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Re: Objectively, what Knicks package is fair for Lillard's value? 

Post#48 » by NYG » Tue May 4, 2021 12:57 am

Tim Lehrbach wrote:
NYG wrote:
JRoy wrote:He’s about the 10th best player in the league.

Pretty sure it would be Simmons plus to get him if he asked out.


Taking the Philly offer off the table what would you say are the top 3 or so Lillard offers that work cap wise?


If Lillard and the Blazers agreed to give up and part ways, and if Philadelphia didn't offer Simmons, then I think the Blazers would let him go home to play with Steph and co. provided the Warriors offer up all their assets to go with Wiggins as the salary match.

Here's that offer, plus three ideas I just pulled out of the air for consideration. I didn't take cap closely into account because the Blazers and each of these teams have salary filler to easily add as appropriate. Also, the Blazers might well send Nurkic or Covington with Dame in the right deal.

Wiseman, Wiggins, Poole, ALL THE PICKS (inc. Minny and distant GSW picks) from Golden State
Ball S&T, Kira, Hart, Hayes, Adams, picks galore from New Orleans
Sabonis, Lamb, McConnell from Indiana
Brown, Pritchard, G. Williams from Boston

I like the top piece in each of these deals, and all come with considerable additional goodies. I only included teams I think Lillard could reasonably accept being traded to, since I don't think any team without a shot at contention would trade for a guy presumably asking out of a solid, winning organization because he can't win a championship there.

It should be noted that I'm game for entertaining any ideas, but I'd be astonished (and crushed) if Lillard was traded during his prime. Keeping Lillard and trying to build the best roster possible around him is still preferred to any of the above options or any others I've heard floated.


I totally agree. Lillard is there to stay. But for the purposes of the thread, I just honestly wonder what’s out there. Lillard is awesome and you pay a ton to get awesome. I also agree with the philosophy of trading for the best headline asset and go from there.
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Re: Objectively, what Knicks package is fair for Lillard's value? 

Post#49 » by NYG » Tue May 4, 2021 12:59 am

Also yeah, the Warriors go all in and offer it all for Lillard in this scenario which beats any other offer especially if you involve another team or two.
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Re: Objectively, what Knicks package is fair for Lillard's value? 

Post#50 » by E S V L » Tue May 4, 2021 3:18 pm

I don`t think these Knicks need Lillard. They should rather preserve and build around their current identity, which is great. Just add a good pg rookie (there will be quite plenty available) to this gang and let it roll.

PS These Knicks without Lillard are better than the Blazers with Lillard. This is the missing point.
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Re: Objectively, what Knicks package is fair for Lillard's value? 

Post#51 » by Creativetran » Wed May 5, 2021 1:09 pm

JRoy wrote:There is no combination of NYK assets that gets Lillard.

BS, not saying its going to happen that all those draft assets are a very attractive package, esp if Lillard does ever want out.
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Re: Objectively, what Knicks package is fair for Lillard's value? 

Post#52 » by JRoy » Wed May 5, 2021 1:24 pm

Creativetran wrote:
JRoy wrote:There is no combination of NYK assets that gets Lillard.

BS, not saying its going to happen that all those draft assets are a very attractive package, esp if Lillard does ever want out.


Mediocre players and mediocre picks don’t get it done.

BS indeed.
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Re: Objectively, what Knicks package is fair for Lillard's value? 

Post#53 » by MoneyTalks41890 » Wed May 5, 2021 1:41 pm

JRoy wrote:
Creativetran wrote:
JRoy wrote:There is no combination of NYK assets that gets Lillard.

BS, not saying its going to happen that all those draft assets are a very attractive package, esp if Lillard does ever want out.


Mediocre players and mediocre picks don’t get it done.

BS indeed.


The only blue chip asset that NY has is arguably RJ. The picks and other players don't qualify. So I agree.
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Re: Objectively, what Knicks package is fair for Lillard's value? 

Post#54 » by MoneyTalks41890 » Wed May 5, 2021 1:41 pm

NYG wrote:
SuperflyKnick wrote:
NYG wrote:Aside from Philly, I do wonder who could top Quickley, Toppin, ‘21 Mavs 1st, ‘21 Knicks 1st, ‘22 Knicks 1st, ‘23 Mavs Conditional 1st, ‘23 Swap, ‘24 Knicks 1st, ‘25 swap, ‘26 1st, ‘27 swap and ‘28 1st

That’s (including the 2020 draft) 9 1sts and 3 swaps... which teams aside Philly beat that?



New York passes ... they are finally building a team from ground up and should do it the right way.... wait for 22 off-season to sign a star without giving up decAde of draft picks along with paying aging lilliard 55 mil a year


I agree, you don't give up the farm for your second option on a championship team like Lillard unless your first option on a championship team is already in place which it isn't for NY. Keep in mind Brooklyn had KD, Milwaukee had Giannis, Lakers had LeBron, etc. when they gave up their hauls for Harden, Jrue and AD.


Dame is the first option on a chip team provided he has an actual team around him that can play defense.
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Re: Objectively, what Knicks package is fair for Lillard's value? 

Post#55 » by BlazersBroncos » Wed May 5, 2021 3:39 pm

It would take basically everything NYK has, Barrett + IQ + Toppin + All the picks.

And, even then, I call PHI and try to get Ben way before taking that offer.
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Re: Objectively, what Knicks package is fair for Lillard's value? 

Post#56 » by MrPeanut » Wed May 5, 2021 4:15 pm

Dame is incredible, but about to be on the wrong side of 30.

Portland is going to want a arm and a leg for him. I do not blame them. So at this time, I do not see a trade happening with the Knicks.

If I was Portland, I want Robinson, Obi & Quickly and at least 4 1st round draft picks. Your move now New York!
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Re: Objectively, what Knicks package is fair for Lillard's value? 

Post#57 » by Case2012 » Wed May 5, 2021 5:09 pm

Just Take CJ for Toppin a pick and cap space and be happy. CJ is the same age as Dame and was putting up 30 a game on great efficiency before his injury. CP3 is 36 and took a lotto team to the 1st seed... CJ is in his prime and if he played for NYC they would challenge for the 2nd seed. Not to mention NYK fans would LOVE CJ in the garden, He puts up 25 to 30 every night with 5-6 assists EASY and makes the all star team.

Blazers could then build a package around Toppin, Simons, DJJ and a Pick for Porzingas? Luka throwing lobs to Toppin would be pretty fun to watch. Meanwhile Portland resigns Powell and Rolls out with Dame, Powell, ROCO, KP, Nurk with Melo and a bought out Love off the bench.
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Re: Objectively, what Knicks package is fair for Lillard's value? 

Post#58 » by GobertReport » Wed May 5, 2021 6:05 pm

You offer anyone not named Julius Randle.
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Re: Objectively, what Knicks package is fair for Lillard's value? 

Post#59 » by zimpy27 » Wed May 5, 2021 9:31 pm

Case2012 wrote:Just Take CJ for Toppin a pick and cap space and be happy. CJ is the same age as Dame and was putting up 30 a game on great efficiency before his injury. CP3 is 36 and took a lotto team to the 1st seed... CJ is in his prime and if he played for NYC they would challenge for the 2nd seed. Not to mention NYK fans would LOVE CJ in the garden, He puts up 25 to 30 every night with 5-6 assists EASY and makes the all star team.

Blazers could then build a package around Toppin, Simons, DJJ and a Pick for Porzingas? Luka throwing lobs to Toppin would be pretty fun to watch. Meanwhile Portland resigns Powell and Rolls out with Dame, Powell, ROCO, KP, Nurk with Melo and a bought out Love off the bench.


CJ and Covington would be interesting actually. Far more affordable.

Wonder what that package is?
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Re: Objectively, what Knicks package is fair for Lillard's value? 

Post#60 » by Tim Lehrbach » Thu May 6, 2021 5:19 am

Case2012 wrote:Just Take CJ for Toppin a pick and cap space and be happy. CJ is the same age as Dame and was putting up 30 a game on great efficiency before his injury. CP3 is 36 and took a lotto team to the 1st seed... CJ is in his prime and if he played for NYC they would challenge for the 2nd seed. Not to mention NYK fans would LOVE CJ in the garden, He puts up 25 to 30 every night with 5-6 assists EASY and makes the all star team.

Blazers could then build a package around Toppin, Simons, DJJ and a Pick for Porzingas? Luka throwing lobs to Toppin would be pretty fun to watch. Meanwhile Portland resigns Powell and Rolls out with Dame, Powell, ROCO, KP, Nurk with Melo and a bought out Love off the bench.


I understand taking chances, but CJ + assets for Porzingis is a very dangerous play. I wouldn't.
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