Make Portland a Contender in 2021-22

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Re: Make Portland a Contender in 2021-22 

Post#21 » by cjmcallist » Mon May 3, 2021 3:10 pm

I've really been trying to find something - I don't think there's any move out there for POR to become a real contender.

I would add - I think Dame put them on notice (via the C. Haynes article). They have to bring in an All Star, somehow. Otherwise he's asking out.

Their only option is to re-shape the roster again. I think CJ + Nurk has to be the main salary out, but deals are really hard to work that way without it being a crazy 4, 5, 6 team trade. Here's my best shot, and I don't know if the other teams would even do this.


Crazy Trade
POR trades: McCollum, Nurkic, Simons, 2022 POR FRP (unprotected), 2022 POR SRP, 2024 POR FRP (unprotected)
POR gets: Barnes, Hayward
Why? POR overpays, but they don't have a choice with Dame's statement. They have urgency to compete, so they have to overpay to get CHA to move off of Hayward.

MIA trades: 2025 FRP (top 10 prot.), 2027 FRP (lotto prot.), K Okpala
MIA gets: McCollum
<if I did math right, the Heat would have to decline options on everybody except Robinson, and trade Okpala into space first. Don't know if this even works then>

CHA trades: Hayward
CHA gets: Nurkic, Little, Okpala, 2022 POR FRP (unprotected), 2024 POR FRP (unprotected), 2027 MIA FRP (lotto prot)

SAC trades: H. Barnes
SAC gets: Little, 2025 MIA FRP (top 10 prot), 2022 POR SRP


End result for Portland -

Dame
Powell
Hayward/Covington
Barnes/DJJ
<FA Center>
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Re: Make Portland a Contender in 2021-22 

Post#22 » by Myth » Mon May 3, 2021 3:56 pm

cjmcallist wrote:I've really been trying to find something - I don't think there's any move out there for POR to become a real contender.

I would add - I think Dame put them on notice (via the C. Haynes article). They have to bring in an All Star, somehow. Otherwise he's asking out.

Their only option is to re-shape the roster again. I think CJ + Nurk has to be the main salary out, but deals are really hard to work that way without it being a crazy 4, 5, 6 team trade. Here's my best shot, and I don't know if the other teams would even do this.


Crazy Trade
POR trades: McCollum, Nurkic, Simons, 2022 POR FRP (unprotected), 2022 POR SRP, 2024 POR FRP (unprotected)
POR gets: Barnes, Hayward
Why? POR overpays, but they don't have a choice with Dame's statement. They have urgency to compete, so they have to overpay to get CHA to move off of Hayward.

MIA trades: 2025 FRP (top 10 prot.), 2027 FRP (lotto prot.), K Okpala
MIA gets: McCollum
<if I did math right, the Heat would have to decline options on everybody except Robinson, and trade Okpala into space first. Don't know if this even works then>

CHA trades: Hayward
CHA gets: Nurkic, Little, Okpala, 2022 POR FRP (unprotected), 2024 POR FRP (unprotected), 2027 MIA FRP (lotto prot)

SAC trades: H. Barnes
SAC gets: Little, 2025 MIA FRP (top 10 prot), 2022 POR SRP


End result for Portland -

Dame
Powell
Hayward/Covington
Barnes/DJJ
<FA Center>

I don't see how that improves us. This is still a focus on offense with defensive problems, but now without a legit center. Portland has no money for FA center other than one that is on the minimum. Certainly not worth multiple unprotected picks to put ourselves in that position.
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Re: Make Portland a Contender in 2021-22 

Post#23 » by tester551 » Mon May 3, 2021 3:58 pm

youngcrev wrote:Would Dallas entertain a Porzingis/CJ based deal?

KP clearly has his issues, and I'm sure Portland fans hate the idea of bringing in another big with some injury red flags... I just feel like it's a good upside swing for them that eliminates the defensive/size conundrum with Dame/CJ.

They'd have some optionality in terms of playing really big or putting KP at center and running some 5 out stuff.

I'd be interested in discussing this more.

Mike lorenzo wrote:As a Dallas fan, I'd be interested in a trade with the Blazers. but no, for CJ..however, Counter..
Nurkic / Covington for KP .. o Nurkic / DJJ for KP

...that's a big NO for me.
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Re: Make Portland a Contender in 2021-22 

Post#24 » by cjmcallist » Mon May 3, 2021 4:03 pm

Myth wrote:
cjmcallist wrote:I've really been trying to find something - I don't think there's any move out there for POR to become a real contender.

I would add - I think Dame put them on notice (via the C. Haynes article). They have to bring in an All Star, somehow. Otherwise he's asking out.

I don't see how that improves us. This is still a focus on offense with defensive problems, but now without a legit center. Portland has no money for FA center other than one that is on the minimum. Certainly not worth multiple unprotected picks to put ourselves in that position.

Yeah, it's tough. I don't really know what's out there to do. I feel like the CJ to MIA thing *might* have legs (only b/c they have space), but would want a MIA fan to weigh in on that.

But that only gets POR more picks and space (TPE or multi-team trade) to try and bring someone else in. I have no idea who that is.

Do you agree that C. Haynes article was the start of the clock for Olshey?
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Re: Make Portland a Contender in 2021-22 

Post#25 » by Myth » Mon May 3, 2021 4:40 pm

cjmcallist wrote:
Myth wrote:
cjmcallist wrote:I've really been trying to find something - I don't think there's any move out there for POR to become a real contender.

I would add - I think Dame put them on notice (via the C. Haynes article). They have to bring in an All Star, somehow. Otherwise he's asking out.

I don't see how that improves us. This is still a focus on offense with defensive problems, but now without a legit center. Portland has no money for FA center other than one that is on the minimum. Certainly not worth multiple unprotected picks to put ourselves in that position.

Yeah, it's tough. I don't really know what's out there to do. I feel like the CJ to MIA thing *might* have legs (only b/c they have space), but would want a MIA fan to weigh in on that.

But that only gets POR more picks and space (TPE or multi-team trade) to try and bring someone else in. I have no idea who that is.

Do you agree that C. Haynes article was the start of the clock for Olshey?

I see the Haynes article as nothing but a writer trying to get clicks. Dame has spoken out that he has nothing to do with the article and hinted at some irritation that people would make assumptions because of their link. I do think Olshey needs to reshape the roster though, specifically with defenders surrounding Lillard.
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Re: Make Portland a Contender in 2021-22 

Post#26 » by Norm2953 » Mon May 3, 2021 6:06 pm

Interesting the local SB Nation site (Blazersedge) has a story of how badly Kevin Love wants out of
Cleveland and wanting to finish his career in Portland where he played his HS ball.

We've seen all sorts of CJ trade proposals but would Cleveland toss in a protected FRP to get Love out of
town for they could probably spin CJ off to a third team. Portland could still sign Powell to replace CJ
in their back court and could play Love, Roco and Nurkic up front.
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Re: Make Portland a Contender in 2021-22 

Post#27 » by JasonStern » Mon May 3, 2021 6:17 pm

The only way Portland could ever be a contender is if they acquire a second top ten player to play with Dame. Given the fact that they refused to trade CJ and picks for either Butler or Harden, and given how rare it is that players like that ever get traded - I'd say that's not going to happen.

Dame/CJ/Covington/Nurkić take up $100M of the cap alone. The only way they can realistically retain Powell is if Jones opts out and they let Collins walk. And at that point, you're filling out the rest of the roster with veteran minimum contracts to avoid going (heavily/at all) into the luxury tax.


Norm2953 wrote:We've seen all sorts of CJ trade proposals but would Cleveland toss in a protected FRP to get Love out of
town for they could probably spin CJ off to a third team. Portland could still sign Powell to replace CJ
in their back court and could play Love, Roco and Nurkic up front.


Barring a miracle in the draft, trading prime CJ for a washed up Kevin Love and a protected 1st is not going to turn Portland into a contender.
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Re: Make Portland a Contender in 2021-22 

Post#28 » by BlazersBroncos » Mon May 3, 2021 6:25 pm

I dont think there are many roads to Portland truly becoming a contender. I did have the idea of a Pascal trade that uses NYK as the 3rd team. If NYK is serious about becoming a perennial playoff team, something like this was my idea:

TOR OUT - Pascal
TOR IN - Toppin, Lower of NYK 2021 FRP, 2023 PDX FRP, 2025 PDX FRP

NYK OUT - Toppin, Lower of NYK 2021 FRP
NYK IN - McCollum

PDX OUT - McCollum, 2023 FRP, 2025 FRP
PDX IN - Pascal

G - Damian Lillard
G - Norman Powell
F - Robert Covington
F - Pascal Siakiam
C - Jusuf Nurkic

Still, not quite a contender still IMO.
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Re: Make Portland a Contender in 2021-22 

Post#29 » by daoneandonly » Mon May 3, 2021 6:37 pm

tester551 wrote:
youngcrev wrote:Would Dallas entertain a Porzingis/CJ based deal?

KP clearly has his issues, and I'm sure Portland fans hate the idea of bringing in another big with some injury red flags... I just feel like it's a good upside swing for them that eliminates the defensive/size conundrum with Dame/CJ.

They'd have some optionality in terms of playing really big or putting KP at center and running some 5 out stuff.

I'd be interested in discussing this more.

Mike lorenzo wrote:As a Dallas fan, I'd be interested in a trade with the Blazers. but no, for CJ..however, Counter..
Nurkic / Covington for KP .. o Nurkic / DJJ for KP

...that's a big NO for me.


Zero reason for Dallas to do KP for CJ. Dallas will just be inheriting the problems PDX currently has, without the defensive presence of RoCo and Nurk, so it would be 10x worse, and they get older. Its such a one sided trade in PDX's favor even with all of KP's flaws.
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Re: Make Portland a Contender in 2021-22 

Post#30 » by JRoy » Mon May 3, 2021 6:56 pm

cjmcallist wrote:I've really been trying to find something - I don't think there's any move out there for POR to become a real contender.

I would add - I think Dame put them on notice (via the C. Haynes article). They have to bring in an All Star, somehow. Otherwise he's asking out.

Their only option is to re-shape the roster again. I think CJ + Nurk has to be the main salary out, but deals are really hard to work that way without it being a crazy 4, 5, 6 team trade. Here's my best shot, and I don't know if the other teams would even do this.


Crazy Trade
POR trades: McCollum, Nurkic, Simons, 2022 POR FRP (unprotected), 2022 POR SRP, 2024 POR FRP (unprotected)
POR gets: Barnes, Hayward
Why? POR overpays, but they don't have a choice with Dame's statement. They have urgency to compete, so they have to overpay to get CHA to move off of Hayward.

MIA trades: 2025 FRP (top 10 prot.), 2027 FRP (lotto prot.), K Okpala
MIA gets: McCollum
<if I did math right, the Heat would have to decline options on everybody except Robinson, and trade Okpala into space first. Don't know if this even works then>

CHA trades: Hayward
CHA gets: Nurkic, Little, Okpala, 2022 POR FRP (unprotected), 2024 POR FRP (unprotected), 2027 MIA FRP (lotto prot)

SAC trades: H. Barnes
SAC gets: Little, 2025 MIA FRP (top 10 prot), 2022 POR SRP


End result for Portland -

Dame
Powell
Hayward/Covington
Barnes/DJJ
<FA Center>


This is awful.

POR is not contending with vet min center.
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Re: Make Portland a Contender in 2021-22 

Post#31 » by Norm2953 » Mon May 3, 2021 7:24 pm

JasonStern wrote:The only way Portland could ever be a contender is if they acquire a second top ten player to play with Dame. Given the fact that they refused to trade CJ and picks for either Butler or Harden, and given how rare it is that players like that ever get traded - I'd say that's not going to happen.

Dame/CJ/Covington/Nurkić take up $100M of the cap alone. The only way they can realistically retain Powell is if Jones opts out and they let Collins walk. And at that point, you're filling out the rest of the roster with veteran minimum contracts to avoid going (heavily/at all) into the luxury tax.


Norm2953 wrote:We've seen all sorts of CJ trade proposals but would Cleveland toss in a protected FRP to get Love out of
town for they could probably spin CJ off to a third team. Portland could still sign Powell to replace CJ
in their back court and could play Love, Roco and Nurkic up front.


Barring a miracle in the draft, trading prime CJ for a washed up Kevin Love and a protected 1st is not going to turn Portland into a contender.


I do wonder if Love got to Portland, would go back to being the 17ppg scorer he was last season, for playing on a really
bad Cleveland team must frustrate Love. Depending on the level of protection on the FRP it might be worth a gamble for
Love's contract is a declining contract which has one less year on his deal.
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Re: Make Portland a Contender in 2021-22 

Post#32 » by cjmcallist » Mon May 3, 2021 7:42 pm

JRoy wrote:
cjmcallist wrote:I've really been trying to find something - I don't think there's any move out there for POR to become a real contender.


This is awful.

POR is not contending with vet min center.

Ah, such helpful commentary. I left the part of my post you must have missed.

Also, since you clearly didn't look it up - the last few starting centers for the champs:

2020 - JaVale McGee / Dwight Howard
2019 - Marc Gasol
2018 - JaVale McGee
2017 - JaVale McGee
2016 - Tristan Thompson
2015 - Andrew Bogut
2014 - Tim Duncan
2013 - Chris Bosh

So, yeah, lotta killers over the last 5 years. :lol:
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Re: Make Portland a Contender in 2021-22 

Post#33 » by K_chile22 » Mon May 3, 2021 7:52 pm

I'd like to see Wood with Dame. DJJ (assuming opt in) and a lightly protected 2023 pick for Wood, then flip Nurk? Doesn't fix the defense but makes them much more dynamic offensively. Nurk is just far too unreliable to be penciled in as a starter for them if they want to reach a higher level
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Re: Make Portland a Contender in 2021-22 

Post#34 » by Myth » Mon May 3, 2021 8:09 pm

Norm2953 wrote:Interesting the local SB Nation site (Blazersedge) has a story of how badly Kevin Love wants out of
Cleveland and wanting to finish his career in Portland where he played his HS ball.

We've seen all sorts of CJ trade proposals but would Cleveland toss in a protected FRP to get Love out of
town for they could probably spin CJ off to a third team. Portland could still sign Powell to replace CJ
in their back court and could play Love, Roco and Nurkic up front.

Ew no. Maybe an unprotected pick. But Love just further adds to defensive issues of this team. A protected pick that doesn't convey into anything of value during the Lillard era does not close the gap.
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Re: Make Portland a Contender in 2021-22 

Post#35 » by TimeisIllmatic » Mon May 3, 2021 8:52 pm

Portland doesn't really have much to get a star player IMO.

Portland gets:
Miles Bridges
Kevin Love
BRK '21 SRP

Charlotte gets:
McCollum
Little

Cleveland gets:
Simons
Covington
'22 & '24 SRP from Portland

Sign Patty Mills
Sign Wayne Ellington
S&T Zach Collins to SAC for Bagley and Wright

Lillard / Mills
Powell / Wright / Ellington/ Elleby
Bridges / Jones Jr.
Love / Melo / Bagley
Nurkic / Kanter
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Re: Make Portland a Contender in 2021-22 

Post#36 » by vetmin » Mon May 3, 2021 9:03 pm

In my 2k league there was this trade:

POR gets Grant
NOP gets McCollum (EDIT: + Plumlee)
DET gets Bledsoe + Adams + various picks from NOP

...the thought process value-wise is that NOP essentially pays for Grant with picks, then swaps him for McCollum.

EDIT: Not saying that makes POR a contender, but it’s a possible step in that direction. POR would start Lillard and Powell in the backcourt, Grant and Covington as their forwards, and Nurkic of course at C. That’s about as good as they could do IMO.
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Re: Make Portland a Contender in 2021-22 

Post#37 » by JRoy » Mon May 3, 2021 9:03 pm

cjmcallist wrote:
JRoy wrote:
cjmcallist wrote:I've really been trying to find something - I don't think there's any move out there for POR to become a real contender.


This is awful.

POR is not contending with vet min center.

Ah, such helpful commentary. I left the part of my post you must have missed.

Also, since you clearly didn't look it up - the last few starting centers for the champs:

2020 - JaVale McGee / Dwight Howard
2019 - Marc Gasol
2018 - JaVale McGee
2017 - JaVale McGee
2016 - Tristan Thompson
2015 - Andrew Bogut
2014 - Tim Duncan
2013 - Chris Bosh

So, yeah, lotta killers over the last 5 years. :lol:


How many of those teams featured LeBron?

Trying to make the argument for equivalence between Lillard and LeBron is lol indeed.
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Re: Make Portland a Contender in 2021-22 

Post#38 » by Myth » Mon May 3, 2021 11:56 pm

TimeisIllmatic wrote:Portland doesn't really have much to get a star player IMO.

Portland gets:
Miles Bridges
Kevin Love
BRK '21 SRP

Charlotte gets:
McCollum
Little

Cleveland gets:
Simons
Covington
'22 & '24 SRP from Portland

Sign Patty Mills
Sign Wayne Ellington
S&T Zach Collins to SAC for Bagley and Wright

Lillard / Mills
Powell / Wright / Ellington/ Elleby
Bridges / Jones Jr.
Love / Melo / Bagley
Nurkic / Kanter

That is another no. Probably can’t get salary to match, but I’d want to find a way to cut Cleveland out. I’d rather have Covington than Love by himself. I do like Bridges though.
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Re: Make Portland a Contender in 2021-22 

Post#39 » by Case2012 » Tue May 4, 2021 4:17 am

Our GM needs to go. Then our coach. Proceed from there.

Also Love would be amazing in PDX playing with a leader like Dame and for his hometown. Only ways it happens is if he agrees to a buy out though. Zero Defense but a Love Melo forward rotation would be great for spacing. CJ can go, idk where or for who, but I’m done with him.
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Re: Make Portland a Contender in 2021-22 

Post#40 » by Myth » Tue May 4, 2021 4:42 am

Case2012 wrote:Our GM needs to go. Then our coach. Proceed from there.

Also Love would be amazing in PDX playing with a leader like Dame and for his hometown. Only ways it happens is if he agrees to a buy out though. Zero Defense but a Love Melo forward rotation would be great for spacing. CJ can go, idk where or for who, but I’m done with him.

On the minimum after a buyout, sure we can try him out. But overall, Love is the wrong way to go for this team. He solves no real issues and actually makes our defense somehow worse. The only way Lillard/CJ combo will work is with defenders backing them up. Teams running a puck and role on CJ or Dame with Love’s man and Kanter on weakside defense is a bigger recipe for disaster. Nurkic will probably break more carrying the defensive load of the front court consisting of him, Kanter, and Melo. If Nurkic misses any games, a rotation of Melo, Love, and Kanter is arguably worse on defense than Dame/CJ/Simons in the backcourt.

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