Make Portland a Contender in 2021-22

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Re: Make Portland a Contender in 2021-22 

Post#41 » by Case2012 » Tue May 4, 2021 3:20 pm

Myth wrote:
Case2012 wrote:Our GM needs to go. Then our coach. Proceed from there.

Also Love would be amazing in PDX playing with a leader like Dame and for his hometown. Only ways it happens is if he agrees to a buy out though. Zero Defense but a Love Melo forward rotation would be great for spacing. CJ can go, idk where or for who, but I’m done with him.

On the minimum after a buyout, sure we can try him out. But overall, Love is the wrong way to go for this team. He solves no real issues and actually makes our defense somehow worse. The only way Lillard/CJ combo will work is with defenders backing them up. Teams running a puck and role on CJ or Dame with Love’s man and Kanter on weakside defense is a bigger recipe for disaster. Nurkic will probably break more carrying the defensive load of the front court consisting of him, Kanter, and Melo. If Nurkic misses any games, a rotation of Melo, Love, and Kanter is arguably worse on defense than Dame/CJ/Simons in the backcourt.


I said CJ can go. Simons needs to go too. We need a real back up PG that can defend. I really wish we didn’t trade GT, even though Powell is ok, GT had that edge that chip on his shoulder that helped us so much at the start of the season. Lillard, GT, Covington, Love, Nurkic would have a nice balance with Melo and Rondo off the bench, that would’ve been way better than what we’re doing now.
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Re: Make Portland a Contender in 2021-22 

Post#42 » by BlazersBroncos » Tue May 4, 2021 4:17 pm

This would be my ideal play:

CJ + 2-3 FRPs for Pascal in a 3- way of some kind.
Trade DJJ for Sato
Sign Love after a buyout
Resign Collins, Melo, Powell, RHJ - Let Kanter walk as we get a better compliment to Nurkic in Love

G - Damian Lillard / Tomas Satoransky
G - Norman Powell / Anfernee Simons
F - Robert Covington / Rondae Hollis-Jefferson / Nassir Little
F - Pascal Siakiam / Carmelo Anthony / Zach Collins
C - Jusuf Nurkic / Kevin Love / Zach Collins

Not happening though.
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Re: Make Portland a Contender in 2021-22 

Post#43 » by JasonStern » Tue May 4, 2021 5:24 pm

Norm2953 wrote:
JasonStern wrote:Barring a miracle in the draft, trading prime CJ for a washed up Kevin Love and a protected 1st is not going to turn Portland into a contender.


I do wonder if Love got to Portland, would go back to being the 17ppg scorer he was last season, for playing on a really
bad Cleveland team must frustrate Love. Depending on the level of protection on the FRP it might be worth a gamble for
Love's contract is a declining contract which has one less year on his deal.


The title of this thread is "Make Portland a Contender in 2021-22" - not "What Picks and Prospects Can Portland Get If They Blew The Team Up?".
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Re: Make Portland a Contender in 2021-22 

Post#44 » by Norm2953 » Tue May 4, 2021 5:33 pm

I do think Love has a chance at finding his way out of Cleveland for he's approaching where LA was
and in a more winning environment, might return to the player he was in 2017-8. He's got to
negotiate out a buy out where he gives back significant $$$ like LA did to go where he wants to go.
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Re: Make Portland a Contender in 2021-22 

Post#45 » by jayjaysee » Tue May 4, 2021 5:48 pm

Yeah, I gave up..

KP and DFS for CJ and Nurk?
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Re: Make Portland a Contender in 2021-22 

Post#46 » by BlazersBroncos » Tue May 4, 2021 6:50 pm

KP and DFS for CJ and Nurk?


This does not make Portland better. We are sending out more talent than we take back.
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Re: Make Portland a Contender in 2021-22 

Post#47 » by tester551 » Tue May 4, 2021 6:53 pm

K_chile22 wrote:I'd like to see Wood with Dame. DJJ (assuming opt in) and a lightly protected 2023 pick for Wood, then flip Nurk? Doesn't fix the defense but makes them much more dynamic offensively. Nurk is just far too unreliable to be penciled in as a starter for them if they want to reach a higher level

You & me both...

I'd be all in favor of a trade similar to this.
But I'd want to try and make it a 3-way:

Portland:
CJ -> Wood + #23 + TPE
Dame, Powell, RoCo, Wood, Nurk

Knicks:
Knox + #21 + #23 + Cap Space -> CJ
CJ, Barrett, ????, Randle, Robinson

Rockets:
Wood -> Knox + #21 + TPE
Wall, Porter, House, ????, ????
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Re: Make Portland a Contender in 2021-22 

Post#48 » by BlazersBroncos » Tue May 4, 2021 7:17 pm

ou & me both...

I'd be all in favor of a trade similar to this.
But I'd want to try and make it a 3-way:

Portland:
CJ -> Wood + #23 + TPE
Dame, Powell, RoCo, Wood, Nurk

Knicks:
Knox + #21 + #23 + Cap Space -> CJ
CJ, Barrett, ????, Randle, Robinson

Rockets:
Wood -> Knox + #21 + TPE
Wall, Porter, House, ????, ????


I really like this but IMO 23 should be going to HOU. Wood is worth more than a bust and the 21st pick.
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Re: Make Portland a Contender in 2021-22 

Post#49 » by Resistance » Tue May 4, 2021 7:30 pm

tester551 wrote:
K_chile22 wrote:I'd like to see Wood with Dame. DJJ (assuming opt in) and a lightly protected 2023 pick for Wood, then flip Nurk? Doesn't fix the defense but makes them much more dynamic offensively. Nurk is just far too unreliable to be penciled in as a starter for them if they want to reach a higher level

You & me both...

I'd be all in favor of a trade similar to this.
But I'd want to try and make it a 3-way:

Portland:
CJ -> Wood + #23 + TPE
Dame, Powell, RoCo, Wood, Nurk

Knicks:
Knox + #21 + #23 + Cap Space -> CJ
CJ, Barrett, ????, Randle, Robinson

Rockets:
Wood -> Knox + #21 + TPE
Wall, Porter, House, ????, ????




That will leave NYK with an early second and a late second. Maybe they can be talked out of one first round pick, but I have doubts that they will give up both first round picks and their cap space.
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Re: Make Portland a Contender in 2021-22 

Post#50 » by Scoot McGroot » Tue May 4, 2021 7:48 pm

BlazersBroncos wrote:
ou & me both...

I'd be all in favor of a trade similar to this.
But I'd want to try and make it a 3-way:

Portland:
CJ -> Wood + #23 + TPE
Dame, Powell, RoCo, Wood, Nurk

Knicks:
Knox + #21 + #23 + Cap Space -> CJ
CJ, Barrett, ????, Randle, Robinson

Rockets:
Wood -> Knox + #21 + TPE
Wall, Porter, House, ????, ????


I really like this but IMO 23 should be going to HOU. Wood is worth more than a bust and the 21st pick.


Wood is also worth more than Knox, #21 pick, and #23 pick combined. Probably by a good amount.
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Re: Make Portland a Contender in 2021-22 

Post#51 » by BlazersBroncos » Tue May 4, 2021 8:02 pm

Wood is also worth more than Knox, #21 pick, and #23 pick combined. Probably by a good amount.


Wont disagree with that. NO offering their late lotto pick for Wood is a better offer just off the top of my head. Zion / Wood, on paper, is a great complimentary duo.
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Re: Make Portland a Contender in 2021-22 

Post#52 » by tester551 » Tue May 4, 2021 10:24 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:
BlazersBroncos wrote:I really like this but IMO 23 should be going to HOU. Wood is worth more than a bust and the 21st pick.


Wood is also worth more than Knox, #21 pick, and #23 pick combined. Probably by a good amount.

Just to get the correct opinion of value...
How would everyone rank the following assets (contract lengths are starting July '21):

Wood (2-yr contract averaging $14M/yr)
CJ (3-yr contract averaging $33M/yr)
#21 + #23 picks this year (4-yr contracts averaging ~$2.5M/yr each)
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Re: Make Portland a Contender in 2021-22 

Post#53 » by Rockazoids » Wed May 5, 2021 1:37 am

BlazersBroncos wrote:I dont think there are many roads to Portland truly becoming a contender. I did have the idea of a Pascal trade that uses NYK as the 3rd team. If NYK is serious about becoming a perennial playoff team, something like this was my idea:

TOR OUT - Pascal
TOR IN - Toppin, Lower of NYK 2021 FRP, 2023 PDX FRP, 2025 PDX FRP

NYK OUT - Toppin, Lower of NYK 2021 FRP
NYK IN - McCollum


PDX OUT - McCollum, 2023 FRP, 2025 FRP
PDX IN - Pascal

G - Damian Lillard
G - Norman Powell
F - Robert Covington
F - Pascal Siakiam
C - Jusuf Nurkic

Still, not quite a contender still IMO.

The Knicks are not giving up Toppin, a 1st & $25 M in cap space for a 6'3 30 yr old no D SG.
tester551 wrote:
K_chile22 wrote:I'd like to see Wood with Dame. DJJ (assuming opt in) and a lightly protected 2023 pick for Wood, then flip Nurk? Doesn't fix the defense but makes them much more dynamic offensively. Nurk is just far too unreliable to be penciled in as a starter for them if they want to reach a higher level

You & me both...

I'd be all in favor of a trade similar to this.
But I'd want to try and make it a 3-way:

Portland:
CJ -> Wood + #23 + TPE
Dame, Powell, RoCo, Wood, Nurk

Knicks:
Knox + #21 + #23 + Cap Space -> CJ
CJ, Barrett, ????, Randle, Robinson

Rockets:
Wood -> Knox + #21 + TPE
Wall, Porter, House, ????, ????

This is just as bad two 1st & more cap for C.J. The Knicks don't need a 6'3 30 yr old no D SG.
These are a pipe dream for POR.
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Re: Make Portland a Contender in 2021-22 

Post#54 » by BlazersBroncos » Wed May 5, 2021 1:43 pm

These are a pipe dream for POR.


CJ for cap space, a unimpressive former lotto pick and a mid 20's pick is not a pipe dream.

You can say that NYK would rather spend their cap space on a younger player and keep those meh assets, but to say its a outlandish pipe dream overvaluation of CJ isnt accurate. He has value, not great value but he has 'cap space, prospect, late FRP' value for sure.
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Re: Make Portland a Contender in 2021-22 

Post#55 » by Village Idiot » Wed May 5, 2021 2:56 pm

CJ, ROCO and a 2022 1st for Ben Simmons and Hill if the Sixers don't meet expectations. They get much better spacing. CJ - Thybulle - ROCO - Harris - Biid is an awesome team.

Lock Simmons and Lillard in a gym all summer to work on Simmon's shot and mindset and Dame's D. Dame - Powell - Little - Simmons - Nurk is a better team than current one
When will we just change the name of 25 of the 30 teams to the Washington Generals?

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Re: Make Portland a Contender in 2021-22 

Post#56 » by JRoy » Wed May 5, 2021 2:59 pm

Village Idiot wrote:CJ, ROCO and a 2022 1st for Ben Simmons and Hill if the Sixers don't meet expectations. They get much better spacing. CJ - Thybulle - ROCO - Harris - Biid is an awesome team.

Lock Simmons and Lillard in a gym all summer to work on Simmon's shot and mindset and Dame's D. Dame - Powell - Little - Simmons - Nurk is a better team than current one


PHI will want a lot more.

Don’t think there’s a deal that will satisfy both fan bases with those players.
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Re: Make Portland a Contender in 2021-22 

Post#57 » by FutureKnicksGM » Wed May 5, 2021 3:23 pm

BlazersBroncos wrote:
These are a pipe dream for POR.


CJ for cap space, a unimpressive former lotto pick and a mid 20's pick is not a pipe dream.

You can say that NYK would rather spend their cap space on a younger player and keep those meh assets, but to say its a outlandish pipe dream overvaluation of CJ isnt accurate. He has value, not great value but he has 'cap space, prospect, late FRP' value for sure.


I would say he has salary filler, prospect, late FRP value. Big delta with the salary filler vs cap space.

Hard pass for NY. No point in trying to lock ourselves on the treadmill, with the flexibility we have at the moment.
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Re: Make Portland a Contender in 2021-22 

Post#58 » by BlazersBroncos » Wed May 5, 2021 3:37 pm

I would say he has salary filler, prospect, late FRP value. Big delta with the salary filler vs cap space.

Hard pass for NY. No point in trying to lock ourselves on the treadmill, with the flexibility we have at the moment.


I would meet in the middle, half salary filler / half cap space value? lol But yes, I can totally see this opinion and likely would agree if in your shoes.

If CJ was even 27 rather than 30, I think even at his salary he would be a good target for NYK should they swing out on some younger guys in FA. But at 30, I get it.

CJ, ROCO and a 2022 1st for Ben Simmons and Hill if the Sixers don't meet expectations. They get much better spacing. CJ - Thybulle - ROCO - Harris - Biid is an awesome team.


This isnt going to even get PHI on the phone. It would have to be something like CJ + ROCO to PHI, 3+ FRP / Young Prospect to team X, another really good player to PHI, to even get them on the phone. And even then, why break up the teams defensive identity to go more mainstream and add a shooter when their somewhat unqiue model in a league of nonstop offense is actually working very well?

Simmons is that good a defender. He is transcendent. You dont break up a defensive duo (Arguably trio w/ Thybulle) for a scorer. Its much more rare to have that defense.

As always with PHI, the only trade would be CJ for Tobias.
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Re: Make Portland a Contender in 2021-22 

Post#59 » by Soulyss » Wed May 5, 2021 3:41 pm

BlazersBroncos wrote:
ou & me both...

I'd be all in favor of a trade similar to this.
But I'd want to try and make it a 3-way:

Portland:
CJ -> Wood + #23 + TPE
Dame, Powell, RoCo, Wood, Nurk

Knicks:
Knox + #21 + #23 + Cap Space -> CJ
CJ, Barrett, ????, Randle, Robinson

Rockets:
Wood -> Knox + #21 + TPE
Wall, Porter, House, ????, ????


I really like this but IMO 23 should be going to HOU. Wood is worth more than a bust and the 21st pick.


Agreed... no one thinks much of the houston front office after the nets trade, but they aren't this bad.
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Re: Make Portland a Contender in 2021-22 

Post#60 » by Soulyss » Wed May 5, 2021 3:43 pm

BlazersBroncos wrote:
I would say he has salary filler, prospect, late FRP value. Big delta with the salary filler vs cap space.

Hard pass for NY. No point in trying to lock ourselves on the treadmill, with the flexibility we have at the moment.


I would meet in the middle, half salary filler / half cap space value? lol But yes, I can totally see this opinion and likely would agree if in your shoes.

If CJ was even 27 rather than 30, I think even at his salary he would be a good target for NYK should they swing out on some younger guys in FA. But at 30, I get it.

CJ, ROCO and a 2022 1st for Ben Simmons and Hill if the Sixers don't meet expectations. They get much better spacing. CJ - Thybulle - ROCO - Harris - Biid is an awesome team.


This isnt going to even get PHI on the phone. It would have to be something like CJ + ROCO to PHI, 3+ FRP / Young Prospect to team X, another really good player to PHI, to even get them on the phone. And even then, why break up the teams defensive identity to go more mainstream and add a shooter when their somewhat unqiue model in a league of nonstop offense is actually working very well?

Simmons is that good a defender. He is transcendent. You dont break up a defensive duo (Arguably trio w/ Thybulle) for a scorer. Its much more rare to have that defense.

As always with PHI, the only trade would be CJ for Tobias.


Yes... CJ for Simmons is a pipe dream. If you keep Norm, CJ -> Tobias makes some sense and arguably makes both teams better BUT I think this is a poor use of resources for the 76'rs. CJ would be best suited as a primary PG... Simmons already fills that role, I suspect a team wanting CJ would want him as the primary distributor.

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