Wall for Horford, what does it take?

Moderators: Texas Chuck, pacers33granger, HartfordWhalers, Mamba4Goat, Andre Roberstan, Trader_Joe, BullyKing, loserX

User avatar
K_chile22
RealGM
Posts: 11,202
And1: 5,068
Joined: Jul 15, 2015
   

Wall for Horford, what does it take? 

Post#1 » by K_chile22 » Mon May 3, 2021 4:39 pm

Say the Rockets get lucky and get a top pick, get Cade or Suggs, I think they've gotta move Wall which seems... difficult. The team that makes the most sense is OKC with Horford, so, what does it take to get that done?

Rockets, in this scenario would have:
2021:
Portland's 1st (Currently 20th)
Milwuakee's 1st (Currently 24th)
2022:
Better of BKN and MIA 1st (unless MIA pick is top 14)
Their own 1st
2023:
MIL 1st (unp.)
Better of their own and Brooklyn's 1st
WAS 1st (14-12-10-8 then 2 2nds)
2024:
BKN 1st
Worst of their own and OKC's first unless their own is top 4


Obviously the Rockets would not put their own picks on the table, so maybe Milwuakee's 1st this year and the BKN/MIA pick next year?
User avatar
Laimbeer
RealGM
Posts: 35,288
And1: 10,792
Joined: Aug 12, 2009
Location: Cabin Creek

Re: Wall for Horford, what does it take? 

Post#2 » by Laimbeer » Mon May 3, 2021 4:41 pm

I'd ride it out with Wall before attaching picks. Houston won't be good for a while.
User avatar
K_chile22
RealGM
Posts: 11,202
And1: 5,068
Joined: Jul 15, 2015
   

Re: Wall for Horford, what does it take? 

Post#3 » by K_chile22 » Mon May 3, 2021 4:42 pm

Laimbeer wrote:I'd ride it out with Wall before attaching picks. Houston won't be good for a while.

In the situation I described I would actually prefer to buy him out and give rookie and KPJ the keys, this is more of a thought exercise
User avatar
bondom34
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 65,309
And1: 49,244
Joined: Mar 01, 2013

Re: Wall for Horford, what does it take? 

Post#4 » by bondom34 » Mon May 3, 2021 4:42 pm

I'm going to be honest and IMO it would take a good bit more. Horford was somewhat productive and owed about $50M less over the next two seasons with Horford's partial guarantee. To add Wall makes just as little sense on OKC as Houston.

It'd be Houston's picks that would have to be on the table, which as you said they wouldn't (and shouldn't) do.
MyUniBroDavis wrote: he was like YALL PEOPLE WHO DOUBT ME WILL SEE YALLS STATS ARE WRONG I HAVE THE BIG BRAIN PLAYS MUCHO NASTY BIG BRAIN BIG CHUNGUS BRAIN YOU BOYS ON UR BBALL REFERENCE NO UNDERSTANDO
ThatBoyNick
Analyst
Posts: 3,292
And1: 2,502
Joined: Jul 12, 2014
 

Re: Wall for Horford, what does it take? 

Post#5 » by ThatBoyNick » Mon May 3, 2021 4:45 pm

Keep him, trade him in the 2022 off-season when he's expiring.

If you want Wall out to develop KPJ, Suggs or Cade, why would OKC want him next to SGA?
User avatar
Bologna Smasher
Analyst
Posts: 3,378
And1: 4,228
Joined: Feb 08, 2007
 

Re: Wall for Horford, what does it take? 

Post#6 » by Bologna Smasher » Mon May 3, 2021 4:48 pm

The Rockets shouldn't attach any picks to him unless it's a late first. Considering where the team currently is, there is no reason for them to do that right now. He only has two years left on his deal, I wouldn't be surprised if some desperate team trades for him during the off-season.
MoneyTalks41890
RealGM
Posts: 19,735
And1: 10,199
Joined: Oct 13, 2009
 

Re: Wall for Horford, what does it take? 

Post#7 » by MoneyTalks41890 » Mon May 3, 2021 5:04 pm

It's going to cost more than the Rockets should pay at this juncture.
sonictecture
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 12,045
And1: 932
Joined: May 26, 2002

Re: Wall for Horford, what does it take? 

Post#8 » by sonictecture » Mon May 3, 2021 6:23 pm

So as a thought experiment, here is what it would take in my mind:

Houston has to get a top 2 selection in the 2021 draft. They have to be willing to trade the rights for that pick.

OKC uses its trade exceptions to trade for a group of three players, for example Eric Bledsoe, Dwight Powell and Jeremy Lamb.

OKC trades
Bledsoe, Powell & Lamb, Mia 2021 FRP

Houston trades
John Wall rights to HOU FRP

HOU uses their lottery luck to shed Wall for smaller contracts and egos, moves down in draft.

OKC utilizes their TPE’s, looks to give Wall a Derek Rose role, keeps Horford, gets one of the two best rated players in this draft.
Xman
Veteran
Posts: 2,523
And1: 109
Joined: Jun 10, 2005

Re: Wall for Horford, what does it take? 

Post#9 » by Xman » Mon May 3, 2021 7:18 pm

Wall is not getting anywhere near current money so not giving much of a discount if he agrees to a buyout.
Forget about asking for Horford on here - some OKC fans have him as positive value now.

Wood is good. If HOU gets a top 4 pick, then they have two solid building blocks. Some like KPJ, Taft.

The idea of giving up a top 4 pick to move Wall is a non-starter.

Dealing Wall is an appealing thought. Maybe a competing aging team that has other bad salary to deal like LAC. Not seeing many other teams and they will demand too much. I like Wood but would deal him for picks and absorb salary, not pay to dump salary. Gordon and Wall are already anchors. Might as well get compensation for taking other bad contracts like: Bledsoe, Horford, TThompson, Kemba, Gallinari, Tyus Jones, Rozier, Westbrook, etc.
sonictecture
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 12,045
And1: 932
Joined: May 26, 2002

Re: Wall for Horford, what does it take? 

Post#10 » by sonictecture » Mon May 3, 2021 8:08 pm

Xman wrote:Wall is not getting anywhere near current money so not giving much of a discount if he agrees to a buyout.
Forget about asking for Horford on here - some OKC fans have him as positive value now.

Wood is good. If HOU gets a top 4 pick, then they have two solid building blocks. Some like KPJ, Taft.

The idea of giving up a top 4 pick to move Wall is a non-starter.

Dealing Wall is an appealing thought. Maybe a competing aging team that has other bad salary to deal like LAC. Not seeing many other teams and they will demand too much. I like Wood but would deal him for picks and absorb salary, not pay to dump salary. Gordon and Wall are already anchors. Might as well get compensation for taking other bad contracts like: Bledsoe, Horford, TThompson, Kemba, Gallinari, Tyus Jones, Rozier, Westbrook, etc.

Houston doesn’t really have space to absorb contracts for picks if they get a top 4 pick or trade Woods w/o taking salary back.

Can Houston just **** down Wall and Gordon for significant parts the next two seasons?
ZombieKilla
Senior
Posts: 698
And1: 744
Joined: Jan 20, 2014
     

Re: Wall for Horford, what does it take? 

Post#11 » by ZombieKilla » Mon May 3, 2021 9:17 pm

Rockets aren't buying out Wall (he will be an expiring after next year), and they certainly aren't trading a Top 4 pick or Wood to get rid of him.
They would at most probably trade a late first rounder (Milwaukee or Portland's) and take back bad salaries.
If that isn't enough, they will just keep him and try again when he is expiring.
sonictecture
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 12,045
And1: 932
Joined: May 26, 2002

Re: Wall for Horford, what does it take? 

Post#12 » by sonictecture » Mon May 3, 2021 9:24 pm

ZombieKilla wrote:Rockets aren't buying out Wall (he will be an expiring after next year), and they certainly aren't trading a Top 4 pick or Wood to get rid of him.
They would at most probably trade a late first rounder (Milwaukee or Portland's) and take back bad salaries.
If that isn't enough, they will just keep him and try again when he is expiring.

That isn’t enough in my view due to his injury history and sheer size of his contract. Houston’s rebuild gets more challenging if they are not top 4 in the draft this year.
ZombieKilla
Senior
Posts: 698
And1: 744
Joined: Jan 20, 2014
     

Re: Wall for Horford, what does it take? 

Post#13 » by ZombieKilla » Mon May 3, 2021 9:42 pm

sonictecture wrote:That isn’t enough in my view due to his injury history and sheer size of his contract. Houston’s rebuild gets more challenging if they are not top 4 in the draft this year.


Then they will just keep Wall another year.
Fortunately, the Rockets don’t make decisions based on what is best for the other team, they make decisions depending on what is best for them.
If they add the top 4 pick, then OKC has to add at least SGA.
sonictecture
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 12,045
And1: 932
Joined: May 26, 2002

Re: Wall for Horford, what does it take? 

Post#14 » by sonictecture » Mon May 3, 2021 10:07 pm

ZombieKilla wrote:
sonictecture wrote:That isn’t enough in my view due to his injury history and sheer size of his contract. Houston’s rebuild gets more challenging if they are not top 4 in the draft this year.


Then they will just keep Wall another year.
Fortunately, the Rockets don’t make decisions based on what is best for the other team, they make decisions depending on what is best for them.
If they add the top 4 pick, then OKC has to add at least SGA.

Fertitta seems like a patient man, I’m sure it will all go smoothly.
jayjaysee
King of the Trade Board
Posts: 9,956
And1: 2,493
Joined: Aug 05, 2012

Re: Wall for Horford, what does it take? 

Post#15 » by jayjaysee » Mon May 3, 2021 10:59 pm

But Cade and Suggs have the size to play with Wall?

I don’t think Houston can move Wall without adding strong incentive, so don’t expect Wall to be moved.

The money difference between wall and Horford calls for 2 firsts or one very good first. And Houston isn’t doing that.
Devilanche
Veteran
Posts: 2,756
And1: 168
Joined: Dec 22, 2010

Re: Wall for Horford, what does it take? 

Post#16 » by Devilanche » Mon May 3, 2021 11:51 pm

jayjaysee wrote:But Cade and Suggs have the size to play with Wall?

I don’t think Houston can move Wall without adding strong incentive, so don’t expect Wall to be moved.

The money difference between wall and Horford calls for 2 firsts or one very good first. And Houston isn’t doing that.

I think the thought process is to give the ball in the rookie hand instead of in walls hand.

Worst come to worst , Houston should negotiate a buyout and let wall free instead of paying any draft pick to move wall.

I’m sure wall can give up 10m over 2 seasons to choose where he want play.
Xman
Veteran
Posts: 2,523
And1: 109
Joined: Jun 10, 2005

Re: Wall for Horford, what does it take? 

Post#17 » by Xman » Tue May 4, 2021 3:33 am

Wall is due $44.3 then has a player option for $47.3 mil.

I have no problem with cutting his on day one of next year if he give up HALF the player option. Might work.
Not paying someone to take him when the team is so bad anyway.

Team has Wood - quality pf/c.
EGordon - overpaid scoring guard for two years.
KPorter and Tate - two wanna be guys that a lot of Houston fans hope develop.
Maybe a couple of bench guys and not much else.

That is not a team that trades picks to dump salary.

Mil and Por 1sts are low (#23 and #19) so they bring potential talent - which is probably just quality bench guys.
Or, sell some cap space and get into the top 12 (I love the top 12 of this draft) - House, #23, #19, (some 2nds if needed) for #10 and Bledsoe. Give NO a TE and a couple of lower picks ( I would keep the top 12 pick but compensation seems fair if they need cap space - plus the #10 pick is a pf/sf that would be a backup in New Orleans).
Xman
Veteran
Posts: 2,523
And1: 109
Joined: Jun 10, 2005

Re: Wall for Horford, what does it take? 

Post#18 » by Xman » Tue May 4, 2021 3:37 am

Gotta laugh about someone thinking Fertita is patient. His is 100% business. Morey did not like being subjected to it and the president of operations did not like it either. Fertita is 100% results oriented. The only question is what he believes will bring results and whether he is more concerned about short term team outlook or being willing to slump for a chance at a ring. Fertita will love you if you produce and can you if you do not.
the_process
RealGM
Posts: 19,741
And1: 4,840
Joined: May 01, 2010

Re: Wall for Horford, what does it take? 

Post#19 » by the_process » Tue May 4, 2021 4:21 am

Xman wrote:Gotta laugh about someone thinking Fertita is patient. His is 100% business. Morey did not like being subjected to it and the president of operations did not like it either. Fertita is 100% results oriented. The only question is what he believes will bring results and whether he is more concerned about short term team outlook or being willing to slump for a chance at a ring. Fertita will love you if you produce and can you if you do not.


The "Fertitta seems patient" quote was sarcasm.

And of course, the problem you guys have is the gap between what Fertitta thinks will bring results, and what actually will bring results. Wide gap right now.
User avatar
queridiculo
RealGM
Posts: 15,318
And1: 6,648
Joined: Mar 29, 2005
Location: Maximum Pain Zone
   

Re: Wall for Horford, what does it take? 

Post#20 » by queridiculo » Tue May 4, 2021 11:21 am

This is the same nonsense that came up when Wall was still with the Wizards.

The Rockets are in clear rebuilding mode, why would they attach any assets whatsoever to clear his salary?

It makes no sense.

Return to Trades and Transactions