Knicks and Kings offseason deal

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Knicks and Kings offseason deal 

Post#1 » by RipPizzaGuy » Mon May 3, 2021 6:58 pm

Knicks out: Knox, Dallas 1st
Knicks in: Harrison Barnes

Kings out: HB
Kings in: Knox, 2021 Dallas 1st

Why for the Knicks? HB just seems like the kind of guy who would fit perfect with Thibs and the Knicks. He can shoot, he can defend, he can post up, hes not selfish, he can swing between SF and PF. The Knicks have so much cap space this doesn't really impact their summer plans at all, but they get a clear upgrade in the starting lineup. Quickley - Barrett - Barnes - Randle - Robinson - Toppin and still nearly 50 million to play with to go get a starting pg and some depth (Lonzo Ball anyone?).

Why for Kings? Move on from a core that hasn't been successful. Reset around Fox/Hali/Bagley/Holmes our pick + the Dallas pick. Save money to make resigning Holmes easier.
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Re: Knicks and Kings offseason deal 

Post#2 » by daoneandonly » Mon May 3, 2021 7:32 pm

I see the logic, just think Knicks can do more with that cap space and Kings arent going to get a pick and space for Barnes, one or the other.
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Re: Knicks and Kings offseason deal 

Post#3 » by Slim Charless » Mon May 3, 2021 7:43 pm

If these 2 teams do a deal it needs to be for Fox. Knicks can send various picks and maybe Obi to make it happen. They can straight absorb Fox's contract.

NYK get their franchise PG and the Kings get a massive amount of picks and young guys to pair with Halliburton.
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Re: Knicks and Kings offseason deal 

Post#4 » by Knickfan1982 » Mon May 3, 2021 7:53 pm

RipPizzaGuy wrote:Knicks out: Knox, Dallas 1st
Knicks in: Harrison Barnes

Kings out: HB
Kings in: Knox, 2021 Dallas 1st

Why for the Knicks? HB just seems like the kind of guy who would fit perfect with Thibs and the Knicks. He can shoot, he can defend, he can post up, hes not selfish, he can swing between SF and PF. The Knicks have so much cap space this doesn't really impact their summer plans at all, but they get a clear upgrade in the starting lineup. Quickley - Barrett - Barnes - Randle - Robinson - Toppin and still nearly 50 million to play with to go get a starting pg and some depth (Lonzo Ball anyone?).

Why for Kings? Move on from a core that hasn't been successful. Reset around Fox/Hali/Bagley/Holmes our pick + the Dallas pick. Save money to make resigning Holmes easier.



As was mentioned before. I can see the logic behind this deal but I have to wonder if we can do better with our cap space. Not a bad concept though.
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Re: Knicks and Kings offseason deal 

Post#5 » by cgf » Mon May 3, 2021 8:59 pm

I'd rather see if we can't use Knox to move up a little & ensure Ziaire Williams, while saving our cap space to chase RFAs like Lonzo & Trent / Horton-Tucker
dogrufus wrote:Plus the win would put us at .500 and 5 straight wins, making every poster here cream in their pants.

We're Knicks fans. We never get to cream.


cgmw wrote:Basically, in conclusion: I'd like Dolan to get off my lawn.
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Re: Knicks and Kings offseason deal 

Post#6 » by cgf » Mon May 3, 2021 9:01 pm

Slim Charless wrote:If these 2 teams do a deal it needs to be for Fox. Knicks can send various picks and maybe Obi to make it happen. They can straight absorb Fox's contract.

NYK get their franchise PG and the Kings get a massive amount of picks and young guys to pair with Halliburton.

I think both teams would want another year with their current cores before working something that big out.
dogrufus wrote:Plus the win would put us at .500 and 5 straight wins, making every poster here cream in their pants.

We're Knicks fans. We never get to cream.


cgmw wrote:Basically, in conclusion: I'd like Dolan to get off my lawn.
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Re: Knicks and Kings offseason deal 

Post#7 » by RipPizzaGuy » Mon May 3, 2021 10:05 pm

Knickfan1982 wrote:
RipPizzaGuy wrote:Knicks out: Knox, Dallas 1st
Knicks in: Harrison Barnes

Kings out: HB
Kings in: Knox, 2021 Dallas 1st

Why for the Knicks? HB just seems like the kind of guy who would fit perfect with Thibs and the Knicks. He can shoot, he can defend, he can post up, hes not selfish, he can swing between SF and PF. The Knicks have so much cap space this doesn't really impact their summer plans at all, but they get a clear upgrade in the starting lineup. Quickley - Barrett - Barnes - Randle - Robinson - Toppin and still nearly 50 million to play with to go get a starting pg and some depth (Lonzo Ball anyone?).

Why for Kings? Move on from a core that hasn't been successful. Reset around Fox/Hali/Bagley/Holmes our pick + the Dallas pick. Save money to make resigning Holmes easier.



As was mentioned before. I can see the logic behind this deal but I have to wonder if we can do better with our cap space. Not a bad concept though.


I'm curious whats the aim of the cap space from a Knicks fan?

When I look at the free agency market its pretty bare. In terms of unrestricted free agents better than Barnes, the list imo is 2-3 guys. This also doesn't impact getting a Lonzo type player or two.

Now if the idea is to trade say Knox, picks, and maybe include Toppin and/or IQ for an even better player, I cant argue with that logic. Just curious who that player may be?
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Re: Knicks and Kings offseason deal 

Post#8 » by RipPizzaGuy » Mon May 3, 2021 10:05 pm

Slim Charless wrote:If these 2 teams do a deal it needs to be for Fox. Knicks can send various picks and maybe Obi to make it happen. They can straight absorb Fox's contract.

NYK get their franchise PG and the Kings get a massive amount of picks and young guys to pair with Halliburton.


Why? Fox is 23 years old. He is part of the rebuild with Haliburton. I really like the Knicks team, but if I were to ever consider moving him, Id want a top 5 pick + a good young player.
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Re: Knicks and Kings offseason deal 

Post#9 » by Scoot McGroot » Mon May 3, 2021 10:39 pm

cgf wrote:I'd rather see if we can't use Knox to move up a little & ensure Ziaire Williams, while saving our cap space to chase RFAs like Lonzo & Trent / Horton-Tucker


I’ll be frank. I don’t know that Knox moves you up in the draft. I’m pretty sure that including Knox costs you value and moves you down in the draft. Luckily, he wasn’t drafted so high that his 4th year salary is insane, but it’s still higher than the production, for sure.
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Re: Knicks and Kings offseason deal 

Post#10 » by cgf » Mon May 3, 2021 10:57 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:
cgf wrote:I'd rather see if we can't use Knox to move up a little & ensure Ziaire Williams, while saving our cap space to chase RFAs like Lonzo & Trent / Horton-Tucker


I’ll be frank. I don’t know that Knox moves you up in the draft. I’m pretty sure that including Knox costs you value and moves you down in the draft. Luckily, he wasn’t drafted so high that his 4th year salary is insane, but it’s still higher than the production, for sure.


That's certainly possible, but with his progress when called into action earlier in the season...though he's dropped to 39% from 3 since then...and his age, I wouldn't be surprised if he has his fans around NBA scouting rooms who still think he's going to put it together and has just been a victim of being drafted by us, so far in his career. Which isn't that crazy given that he did look capable defensively while shooting over 40% from 3 when he was in the rotation. He just isn't a "Thibs guy", so it probably isn't going to work out for him here.
dogrufus wrote:Plus the win would put us at .500 and 5 straight wins, making every poster here cream in their pants.

We're Knicks fans. We never get to cream.


cgmw wrote:Basically, in conclusion: I'd like Dolan to get off my lawn.
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Re: Knicks and Kings offseason deal 

Post#11 » by Slim Charless » Mon May 3, 2021 11:12 pm

RipPizzaGuy wrote:
Slim Charless wrote:If these 2 teams do a deal it needs to be for Fox. Knicks can send various picks and maybe Obi to make it happen. They can straight absorb Fox's contract.

NYK get their franchise PG and the Kings get a massive amount of picks and young guys to pair with Halliburton.


Why? Fox is 23 years old. He is part of the rebuild with Haliburton. I really like the Knicks team, but if I were to ever consider moving him, Id want a top 5 pick + a good young player.


Because they play the same position and have over lapping skill sets. Meanwhile, Kings front court is severely lacking...

This way they can fill other holes and make room for their OTHER young, franchise PG.
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Re: Knicks and Kings offseason deal 

Post#12 » by RipPizzaGuy » Mon May 3, 2021 11:30 pm

Slim Charless wrote:
RipPizzaGuy wrote:
Slim Charless wrote:If these 2 teams do a deal it needs to be for Fox. Knicks can send various picks and maybe Obi to make it happen. They can straight absorb Fox's contract.

NYK get their franchise PG and the Kings get a massive amount of picks and young guys to pair with Halliburton.


Why? Fox is 23 years old. He is part of the rebuild with Haliburton. I really like the Knicks team, but if I were to ever consider moving him, Id want a top 5 pick + a good young player.


Because they play the same position and have over lapping skill sets. Meanwhile, Kings front court is severely lacking...

This way they can fill other holes and make room for their OTHER young, franchise PG.


Except the don't play the same position. Most of our best lineups include the both of them, along with Holmes/Barnes. Haliburton is far more of an off-guard with ability to be the lead ball handler in bunches.

I don't expect you to watch a ton of Kings games, hell its hard for even us fans. But Fox/Hali aren't restricting each other at all.
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Re: Knicks and Kings offseason deal 

Post#13 » by Scoot McGroot » Tue May 4, 2021 12:00 am

cgf wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
cgf wrote:I'd rather see if we can't use Knox to move up a little & ensure Ziaire Williams, while saving our cap space to chase RFAs like Lonzo & Trent / Horton-Tucker


I’ll be frank. I don’t know that Knox moves you up in the draft. I’m pretty sure that including Knox costs you value and moves you down in the draft. Luckily, he wasn’t drafted so high that his 4th year salary is insane, but it’s still higher than the production, for sure.


That's certainly possible, but with his progress when called into action earlier in the season...though he's dropped to 39% from 3 since then...and his age, I wouldn't be surprised if he has his fans around NBA scouting rooms who still think he's going to put it together and has just been a victim of being drafted by us, so far in his career. Which isn't that crazy given that he did look capable defensively while shooting over 40% from 3 when he was in the rotation. He just isn't a "Thibs guy", so it probably isn't going to work out for him here.


I get it, but he’s still a terrible shooter overall, despite his 3 point shot falling better this year. I don’t know that it’s falling enough to make up for the rest of his game. And if his defense was capable, I think Thibs would try and find him minutes.

More than anything, I think it’s that he’s not a relatively cheap flyer any more. His 4th year salary jumps from around $4.5m to almost $6m. He’ll be paid a salary that most teams would require him to produce for. I think he might still turn out to be something in this league, but I think he might have to go more of a “prove it” kind of contract off his rookie deal. Like Josh Jackson, minus the legal problems. Ultimately, if he wasn’t a lotto pick, he’d have been close to out of the league already.
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Re: Knicks and Kings offseason deal 

Post#14 » by cgf » Tue May 4, 2021 12:14 am

Scoot McGroot wrote:
cgf wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
I’ll be frank. I don’t know that Knox moves you up in the draft. I’m pretty sure that including Knox costs you value and moves you down in the draft. Luckily, he wasn’t drafted so high that his 4th year salary is insane, but it’s still higher than the production, for sure.


That's certainly possible, but with his progress when called into action earlier in the season...though he's dropped to 39% from 3 since then...and his age, I wouldn't be surprised if he has his fans around NBA scouting rooms who still think he's going to put it together and has just been a victim of being drafted by us, so far in his career. Which isn't that crazy given that he did look capable defensively while shooting over 40% from 3 when he was in the rotation. He just isn't a "Thibs guy", so it probably isn't going to work out for him here.


I get it, but he’s still a terrible shooter overall, despite his 3 point shot falling better this year. I don’t know that it’s falling enough to make up for the rest of his game. And if his defense was capable, I think Thibs would try and find him minutes.

More than anything, I think it’s that he’s not a relatively cheap flyer any more. His 4th year salary jumps from around $4.5m to almost $6m. He’ll be paid a salary that most teams would require him to produce for. I think he might still turn out to be something in this league, but I think he might have to go more of a “prove it” kind of contract off his rookie deal. Like Josh Jackson, minus the legal problems. Ultimately, if he wasn’t a lotto pick, he’d have been close to out of the league already.


You may well be right, but Knox's defense was shockingly decent when he was in the rotation. He's just an airhead whose game suffers when he forgets to keep things simple, while Thibs wants guys who live & breathe basketball and will follow his instructions to the letter. So when Burks came back & we traded for Rose...which pushed Quickley to the two & Burks to the three...it came down to Knox or Toppin for the final rotation spot, and despite Obi being rawer, he's a Thibs kind of player.
dogrufus wrote:Plus the win would put us at .500 and 5 straight wins, making every poster here cream in their pants.

We're Knicks fans. We never get to cream.


cgmw wrote:Basically, in conclusion: I'd like Dolan to get off my lawn.
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Re: Knicks and Kings offseason deal 

Post#15 » by Resistance » Tue May 4, 2021 1:00 am

cgf wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
cgf wrote:
That's certainly possible, but with his progress when called into action earlier in the season...though he's dropped to 39% from 3 since then...and his age, I wouldn't be surprised if he has his fans around NBA scouting rooms who still think he's going to put it together and has just been a victim of being drafted by us, so far in his career. Which isn't that crazy given that he did look capable defensively while shooting over 40% from 3 when he was in the rotation. He just isn't a "Thibs guy", so it probably isn't going to work out for him here.


I get it, but he’s still a terrible shooter overall, despite his 3 point shot falling better this year. I don’t know that it’s falling enough to make up for the rest of his game. And if his defense was capable, I think Thibs would try and find him minutes.

More than anything, I think it’s that he’s not a relatively cheap flyer any more. His 4th year salary jumps from around $4.5m to almost $6m. He’ll be paid a salary that most teams would require him to produce for. I think he might still turn out to be something in this league, but I think he might have to go more of a “prove it” kind of contract off his rookie deal. Like Josh Jackson, minus the legal problems. Ultimately, if he wasn’t a lotto pick, he’d have been close to out of the league already.


You may well be right, but Knox's defense was shockingly decent when he was in the rotation. He's just an airhead whose game suffers when he forgets to keep things simple, while Thibs wants guys who live & breathe basketball and will follow his instructions to the letter. So when Burks came back & we traded for Rose...which pushed Quickley to the two & Burks to the three...it came down to Knox or Toppin for the final rotation spot, and despite Obi being rawer, he's a Thibs kind of player.



It will be tough to get up to #19 for a package of #20 + Knox.

#20 + #32 + Knox should at least get some consideration to move up a bit with Knox the lowest value item in the package.
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Re: Knicks and Kings offseason deal 

Post#16 » by SNPA » Tue May 4, 2021 1:13 am

Nobody wants Knox. Topping is following his path. Those guys got drafted because they look like players, but they aren’t.

There is nothing on the Knicks that gets Fox. Send firsts and you can have Barnes.
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Re: Knicks and Kings offseason deal 

Post#17 » by FutureKnicksGM » Tue May 4, 2021 9:55 am

No interest in giving up picks and cap for Barnes. Our two best pieces are at the forward spot, clearly we should be looking to upgrade at the guard spot.
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Re: Knicks and Kings offseason deal 

Post#18 » by Knickfan1982 » Tue May 4, 2021 3:35 pm

RipPizzaGuy wrote:
Knickfan1982 wrote:
RipPizzaGuy wrote:Knicks out: Knox, Dallas 1st
Knicks in: Harrison Barnes

Kings out: HB
Kings in: Knox, 2021 Dallas 1st

Why for the Knicks? HB just seems like the kind of guy who would fit perfect with Thibs and the Knicks. He can shoot, he can defend, he can post up, hes not selfish, he can swing between SF and PF. The Knicks have so much cap space this doesn't really impact their summer plans at all, but they get a clear upgrade in the starting lineup. Quickley - Barrett - Barnes - Randle - Robinson - Toppin and still nearly 50 million to play with to go get a starting pg and some depth (Lonzo Ball anyone?).

Why for Kings? Move on from a core that hasn't been successful. Reset around Fox/Hali/Bagley/Holmes our pick + the Dallas pick. Save money to make resigning Holmes easier.



As was mentioned before. I can see the logic behind this deal but I have to wonder if we can do better with our cap space. Not a bad concept though.


I'm curious whats the aim of the cap space from a Knicks fan?

When I look at the free agency market its pretty bare. In terms of unrestricted free agents better than Barnes, the list imo is 2-3 guys. This also doesn't impact getting a Lonzo type player or two.

Now if the idea is to trade say Knox, picks, and maybe include Toppin and/or IQ for an even better player, I cant argue with that logic. Just curious who that player may be?


Off the top of my head:
Guys I wouldn't mind trading for: Zach Lavine, Myles Turner (longshots Bradley Beal and Damien Lillard)
Guys I wouldn't mind signing as free agents: Evan Fornier, Lonzo Ball
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Re: Knicks and Kings offseason deal 

Post#19 » by RipPizzaGuy » Tue May 4, 2021 4:44 pm

Knickfan1982 wrote:
RipPizzaGuy wrote:
Knickfan1982 wrote:

As was mentioned before. I can see the logic behind this deal but I have to wonder if we can do better with our cap space. Not a bad concept though.


I'm curious whats the aim of the cap space from a Knicks fan?

When I look at the free agency market its pretty bare. In terms of unrestricted free agents better than Barnes, the list imo is 2-3 guys. This also doesn't impact getting a Lonzo type player or two.

Now if the idea is to trade say Knox, picks, and maybe include Toppin and/or IQ for an even better player, I cant argue with that logic. Just curious who that player may be?


Off the top of my head:
Guys I wouldn't mind trading for: Zach Lavine, Myles Turner (longshots Bradley Beal and Damien Lillard)
Guys I wouldn't mind signing as free agents: Evan Fornier, Lonzo Ball


Fair enough. Not sure which of those guys will end up being available, but I guess NY is in a great spot to grab the next star who becomes available. I was thinking this as a cheap way to improve without breaking the bank.

Guess it would make more sense if these guys don't become available. Could likely trade for Barnes, while still signing Fournier and Ball.

Robinson/Noel
Randle/Toppin
Barnes/Fournier
Barrett/Quickley
Ball/Rose

This has the look of a nasty 10 man rotation with room to grow.
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Re: Knicks and Kings offseason deal 

Post#20 » by Xman » Tue May 4, 2021 5:04 pm

That first is not great - and still has more value than Barnes. Taking him off their cap would be a favor.

Fox would cost way more than NY will pay. I suggested a NO trade - pick #10, five other firsts KLewis and LBall was not considered close to enough.

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