Eliminated: NYK is out, knee-jerk trades & solutions
Posted: Thu Jun 3, 2021 3:05 am
by Foshan
So i thought this could be fun as each team gets knocked out. Especially at a time in which fans of said eliminated teams are thinking very clearly
So where does New York go from here?
Re: Eliminated: NYK is out, knee-jerk trades & solutions
Posted: Thu Jun 3, 2021 3:24 am
by zimpy27
People may hate this but I like the idea of them selling high on Randle. Randle had a good year with Thibs and maintained efficiency with the ball in his hand more but I don't have a lot of faith in building a team around him.
- Trade Randle, Obi, pick 22+24 for Butler - Sign Lowry - Sign Lauri - Re-sign Noel, Burks, Rose
Re: Eliminated: NYK is out, knee-jerk trades & solutions
Posted: Thu Jun 3, 2021 3:28 am
by Knickfan1982
Foshan wrote:So i thought this could be fun as each team gets knocked out. Especially at a time in which fans of said eliminated teams are thinking very clearly
So where does New York go from here?
If they are smart: Take the season for what it was. We exceeded expectations but we have a process that seems to be working. Stick with it.
If they are the normal Knicks: Make a big splashy move and act like we're going to win it all.
At the end of the day, we're a good but incredibly flawed team. Randle had a great year but in an admittedly small sample size I question if he's "the guy". With that being said, even with Barrett's major improvement if Randle is struggling offensively this team is forked. We just don't have the offensive firepower to really be much of a threat in the playoffs.
Draft: If a high ceiling guy like Zaire Williams falls into our lap at #19 grab him. But also take a look at lower ceiling but higher floor guys like Corey Kispert or Chris Duarte who can step in as role players right from the jump.
Free Agency: Don't overspend. Say good bye to Payton and let Frank Ntilikina thrive elsewhere because its not going to happen here. If you can work out a S+T with NOLA to get Lonzo Ball without overpaying him then do it. If you can get a good deal for someone like Evan Fornier to add some size and shooting then do it. Otherwise try to keep Nerlins Noel, Alec Burks, Reggie Bullock and Derrick Rose on good value deals (even if at a slight raise then do it) or try to repeat the success of their signings with other guys.
Re: Eliminated: NYK is out, knee-jerk trades & solutions
Posted: Thu Jun 3, 2021 3:40 am
by pipfan
NY is in a TOUGH spot. After years of being bad, they had a great season. Clearly, they don't have a lot of top talent, but they played their butts off-Thibs effect on full display
But, ATL showed everyone that NY is not a threat. If they bring back this squad-it's going to lead to mediocrity. But, fans might revolt if they shake it up too much, and slip back into the lottery-in exchange for long term talent
I don't know what I would do
Re: Eliminated: NYK is out, knee-jerk trades & solutions
Posted: Thu Jun 3, 2021 3:51 am
by Myth
What are there needs? Who is not part of their core?
Re: Eliminated: NYK is out, knee-jerk trades & solutions
Posted: Thu Jun 3, 2021 3:53 am
by Chicago-Bull-E
Stay the course, keep Randle, and invest as much time, money, and effort into getting the max out of IQ, Toppin, and Barret. I thought IQ showed flashes/potential of being a top tier point guard.
They do have decent draft capital, so maybe use that towards a wing upgrade?
Re: Eliminated: NYK is out, knee-jerk trades & solutions
Posted: Thu Jun 3, 2021 7:04 am
by cgf
Craziest swerve possible, don't do much other than upgrading on Payton with someone like Lonzo & bringing back (or replacing) the vets; while maintaining our flexibility to open a max slot next summer. There's no need to rush into using all of our capspace this summer, but if we don't use it by next summer (2022) it'll get eaten up by new contracts for Randle (2022), Robinson (2022) & Barrett (2023).
If all goes well the team can grow together for another year in generally the same shape...aka hopefully, we get more from Lonzo than we did Elf, Robinson doesn't miss as much time as he did this year, and Barrett / Quickley / Toppin take steps in their current roles...before snagging someone like Lavine to join Randle & year-4-RJ as a probably-not-title-caliber big 3.
At which point it's as simple as enjoying being a 2nd tier playoff team & hoping that eventually, we'll get the chance to make our own version of a Kawhi-to-Toronto trade; using something like Randle/Lavine + Quickley/Toppin + a kid we draft in '21/'22 + future picks to bring in someone like Zion or Booker when that generation of superstars starts moving around.
As an example, here's my ideal version of the "upgrade on Elf this summer, add a 3rd shot-creator next summer" plan:
Spoiler:
Dream scenario
Step 1 (2021 Offseason) - Sign Lonzo; maybe S&T for him using Knox+SRP or our capspace to eat the Bledsoe contract. - Re-sign to inflated 2yr deals with TOs next summer: Rose, Bullock, Burks, Noel, Taj & Pinson; replace whichever ones leave for better offers - 2021 Draft: Ziaire Williams - NYK FRP, Jared Butler - DAL FRP, Trey Murphy - DET SRP
Lonzo | D. Rose | '21 DAL FRP Bullock | Quickley | Theo Pinson Barrett | Burks* | '21 NYK FRP Randle | Toppin | '21 DET SRP Robinson | Noel* | Toppin (Taj)
Step 2 (2022 Offseason) - Sign Lavine before giving Randle & Robinson their new deals...alternatively, look to the trade market for someone like Sexton. - Re-sign Rose & Bullock if possible - Draft a rim protector to groom, hopefully one that can learn to shoot
Lonzo | D. Rose | '21 DAL FRP Lavine | Quickley | Theo Pinson Barrett | Bullock | '21 NYK FRP Randle | Toppin | '21 DET SRP Robinson | Toppin | '22 NYK FRP | Taj
Step 3 (if we aren't real contenders after Step 2) - Trade: Randle/Lavine + Quickley/Toppin + '21 NYK FRP/'21 DAL FRP/'22 NYK FRP + future picks; for whichever of that next generation of superstars (Zion, Booker, Mitchell, etc.) wants us, whenever they start wanting out of their current situations. - Rely on exceptions & ring chasers to fill the bench out around whatever kids are left.
Lonzo | '21 DAL FRP Lavine | Exception Barrett | '21 NYK FRP Zion | '21 DET SRP Robinson | Toppin ----------------- Lonzo | '21 DAL FRP Booker | Exception Barrett | '21 NYK FRP Randle | '21 DET SRP Robinson | Toppin
Re: Eliminated: NYK is out, knee-jerk trades & solutions
Posted: Thu Jun 3, 2021 7:23 am
by cgf
Myth wrote:What are there needs? Who is not part of their core?
Starting Point Guard & another shot creator. Time will tell
Re: Eliminated: NYK is out, knee-jerk trades & solutions
Posted: Thu Jun 3, 2021 7:59 am
by Mavrelous
They need a PG and they need shooting, If Utah fails and don't want to pay heavy tax for non-contending team, sign Conely and sign Lauri Markannen, resign their own player and fill the rest of the roster with their pick. The idea around releasing 23' 1st pick for DAL in exchange for Brunson is also good, if Conely doesn't sign.
Re: Eliminated: NYK is out, knee-jerk trades & solutions
Posted: Thu Jun 3, 2021 11:20 am
by bravor
They should try to have a deal with Toronto for Siakam with Barrett as the main counterpart for obvious reasons. It would need a third team for this to work salary wise, but for both teams it would make sense
Re: Eliminated: NYK is out, knee-jerk trades & solutions
Posted: Thu Jun 3, 2021 11:40 am
by JediMasterRevan
They should go after a point guard that can score.
Re: Eliminated: NYK is out, knee-jerk trades & solutions
Posted: Thu Jun 3, 2021 12:06 pm
by cgf
bravor wrote:They should try to have a deal with Toronto for Siakam with Barrett as the main counterpart for obvious reasons. It would need a third team for this to work salary wise, but for both teams it would make sense
...what are these obvious reasons?
KhalilS wrote:They need a PG and they need shooting, If Utah fails and don't want to pay heavy tax for non-contending team, sign Conely and sign Lauri Markannen, resign their own player and fill the rest of the roster with their pick. The idea around releasing 23' 1st pick for DAL in exchange for Brunson is also good, if Conely doesn't sign.
Lauri Markannen? Have you met Thibs?
Re: Eliminated: NYK is out, knee-jerk trades & solutions
Posted: Thu Jun 3, 2021 12:27 pm
by Buzzard
I think NY should be cautious and continue the rebuild. But since this is a knee jerk thread I am going with this: Sign Ball and Powell.
PG - Ball SG - Powell SF - Barrett PF - Randle C - Mitchell
Ball and Powell are decent defenders that should fit Thibs scheme. Hopefully Barrett keeps improving and Randle was a not a fluke. If they draft well, some young upside depth is to be had this season.
Re: Eliminated: NYK is out, knee-jerk trades & solutions
Posted: Thu Jun 3, 2021 12:56 pm
by NYG
NYG wrote: Here's my thoughts...
1. The Knicks significantly outperformed their talent this season. That's not a bad thing, but clearly we're not where we thought we were yet. Going into this season, though, I did not expect this much and in the end I'm satisfied with the juice Thibs squeezed out of this roster.
2. Unless the right all in opportunity like a Lillard type of guy presents itself (and I don't think there's a guy like that this off-season) then be patient, hold your assets, build organically even if next season this team is in the lottery. I think trading all of our picks in the wrong deal could set us back in a major way so just be patient.
3. If we go the patient route because there's no big deal to be had then re-signing a lot of our own guys makes sense especially if they will take a one year deal.
4. We can't sign Rose to be our starter in terms of starter minutes. He is talented enough to start and I hope the Knicks keep him, but they need another point guard to join him so he doesn't break down injury wise.
5. I would trade Knox for Rubio and re-sign Burks, Noel, Bullock and Rose to 1 year deals then revisit in 2022. Replacing Payton with Rubio is huge.
If you hit on 19 and/or 21, you could have a compelling package for Beal at the deadline.
Re: Eliminated: NYK is out, knee-jerk trades & solutions
Posted: Thu Jun 3, 2021 1:18 pm
by dakomish23
Myth wrote:What are there needs? Who is not part of their core?
Backcourt, specifically PG. if your ever wondered why Johnson & Johnson is part of the DOW it’s b/c the Knicks have never stopped applying bandaids to this open wound.
I want them to go after Lowry and Ball
Lowry DRose Ball IQ RJB Bullock Randle Obi Mitch
Just see what this teams look like with starter level talent at each position
Re: Eliminated: NYK is out, knee-jerk trades & solutions
Posted: Thu Jun 3, 2021 1:23 pm
by BowlRips
I think in addition to a PG they need a big wing. Someone that can guard the 3/4 and hit 3s. Would allow them to play small sometimes.
Re: Eliminated: NYK is out, knee-jerk trades & solutions
Posted: Thu Jun 3, 2021 1:27 pm
by HartfordWhalers
Would people pay NO to let Ball go, or just offer a big number and cross your fingers?
Re: Eliminated: NYK is out, knee-jerk trades & solutions
Posted: Thu Jun 3, 2021 1:37 pm
by Wizop
JediMasterRevan wrote:They should go after a point guard that can score.
Aaron Holiday and pick 54 for pick 32.
I might sweeten by taking Knox if you'd take Lamb. Pacers need tax leeway.
Re: Eliminated: NYK is out, knee-jerk trades & solutions
Posted: Thu Jun 3, 2021 1:38 pm
by cgf
dakomish23 wrote:
Myth wrote:What are there needs? Who is not part of their core?
Backcourt, specifically PG. if your ever wondered why Johnson & Johnson is part of the DOW it’s b/c the Knicks have never stopped applying bandaids to this open wound.
I want them to go after Lowry and Ball
Lowry DRose Ball IQ RJB Bullock Randle Obi Mitch
Just see what this teams look like with starter level talent at each position
On the court next season, that's probably the best we can do...assuming Kawhi isn't a possibility...but I still don't like the idea of handing Kyle Lowry a big contract this summer. Handing an old PG his last big contract before he breaks down without first seeing if we can't use that capspace on someone who better fits with our core's timeline next summer, would be such a Dolan-move.
Our capspace has an expiration date and in 2023 we'll be at the cap even if we strike out completely in FA over these next two summers...but it is two summers that we have to spend that money, it doesn't all have to go this one. So let's not rush & use both of those swings to ensure we set the team up as well as we can for the mid-to-late 2020s. Cause if we blow it all on Lowry we're stuck in a really tough spot once he breaks down.
...and it's not like adding Lowry would make us contenders until age catches up with him. The ceiling on that team is probably the same 4th seed that we achieved during this crazy season. We might've beaten the hawks, but we weren't going to threaten Philly, much less Brooklyn/Milwaukee.
Re: Eliminated: NYK is out, knee-jerk trades & solutions
Posted: Thu Jun 3, 2021 1:44 pm
by cgf
HartfordWhalers wrote:Would people pay NO to let Ball go, or just offer a big number and cross your fingers?
Depends on what the Pels want not to match and what their breaking point is financially. We can afford to offer Lonzo around 20-22M and still open a max slot next summer if Lavine (or Beal) makes it to FA & can be convinced to sign with us.
So if 20-22M per gets them not to match, cool. If they'll match that to avoid losing him for nothing but will facilitate a S&T at 16-18M for something like Knox+#32, or taking Bledsoe off their hands, then that's doable & probably our best move. If they'll match anything & are demanding their choice of Quickley / Toppin + an unprotected FRP from us, then it's time to explore our other options.
