CHA - IND

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CHA - IND 

Post#1 » by aguiar95 » Thu Jun 10, 2021 2:36 pm

CHA in: Turner, J. Holiday, A. Holiday.
CHA out: Rozier, Washington, '22 CHA 1st (lottery protected).

Why? Get a perfect center to complement their starting core, while keeping this year's lottery pick to complement their young core. Both Holidays should get minutes in their rotation IMO.

Ball/A. Holiday
Graham ?/Monk ?
Bridges/J. Holiday
Hayward/McDaniels
Turner/#11

IND in: Rozier, Washington, '22 CHA 1st (lottery protected).
IND out: Turner, A. Holiday, J. Holiday.

Why? They move Sabonis to the 5 (seeing how they performed without Turner may change their perspective), give Goga more minutes and get two capable starters.

Rozier/McConnell ?
Brogdon/Levert
Warren/McDermott ?
Washington/Brissett
Sabonis/Bitadze
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Re: CHA - IND 

Post#2 » by MasterIchiro » Thu Jun 10, 2021 2:40 pm

The most I'd pay for Turner is Rozier + 11 so I have this as an overpay. I want to compete in any bidding war for Turner but if it gets silly I'm out. I suspect Kupchak has Rozier as equal value to Turner and if he saw me including pick 11 he'd challenge me to a fist fight. Turner is underrated on this board and Pacers fans diligently defend his value. Rozier is undervalued on this board and frequently gets abandoned by Hornets fans. He's our leading scorer and that's just as valuable as a leading defender. Neither is a zero on one end.
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Re: CHA - IND 

Post#3 » by KEMBAtheMETEOR » Thu Jun 10, 2021 2:41 pm

i think it's better to take out one of the pieces from Charlotte and let Indy keep the Holidays. They can send us Lamb if salary filler is needed.
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Re: CHA - IND 

Post#4 » by aguiar95 » Thu Jun 10, 2021 4:59 pm

Didn't realize CHA had a bunch of cap. I put Rozier there thinking he needed to be for matching salary. Maybe Washington + 11 does the job.
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Re: CHA - IND 

Post#5 » by basketballwacko2 » Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:03 pm

aguiar95 wrote:CHA in: Turner, J. Holiday, A. Holiday.
CHA out: Rozier, Washington, '22 CHA 1st (lottery protected).

Why? Get a perfect center to complement their starting core, while keeping this year's lottery pick to complement their young core. Both Holidays should get minutes in their rotation IMO.

Ball/A. Holiday
Graham ?/Monk ?
Bridges/J. Holiday
Hayward/McDaniels
Turner/#11

IND in: Rozier, Washington, '22 CHA 1st (lottery protected).
IND out: Turner, A. Holiday, J. Holiday.

Why? They move Sabonis to the 5 (seeing how they performed without Turner may change their perspective), give Goga more minutes and get two capable starters.

Rozier/McConnell ?
Brogdon/Levert
Warren/McDermott ?
Washington/Brissett
Sabonis/Bitadze



Here we go again!

NO!

The Pacers don't need Rozier or another undersized forward! Justin Holiday is not a throw in. Zero interest in trading Turner.
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Re: CHA - IND 

Post#6 » by Topofthekey » Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:07 pm

Terrible

There is no need, or even the space, for Rozier on the Pacers roster

And he's also an upcoming FA, so Pacers aren't going to want to be the one to overpay him

Using Rozier as the centrepiece for a Myles Turner deal is just a fundamentally flawed idea from the beginning
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Re: CHA - IND 

Post#7 » by basketballwacko2 » Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:13 pm

Topofthekey wrote:Terrible

There is no need, or even the space, for Rozier on the Pacers roster

And he's also an upcoming FA, so Pacers aren't going to want to be the one to overpay him

Using Rozier as the centrepiece for a Myles Turner deal is just a fundamentally flawed idea from the beginning



It's as if, "Just play anyone at PF who cares!"
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Re: CHA - IND 

Post#8 » by aguiar95 » Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:17 pm

Topofthekey wrote:Terrible

There is no need, or even the space, for Rozier on the Pacers roster

And he's also an upcoming FA, so Pacers aren't going to want to be the one to overpay him

Using Rozier as the centrepiece for a Myles Turner deal is just a fundamentally flawed idea from the beginning


Not sure if you even read the trade. Rozier is the least valuable piece they're sending you ....
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Re: CHA - IND 

Post#9 » by Scoot McGroot » Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:22 pm

basketballwacko2 wrote:
Topofthekey wrote:Terrible

There is no need, or even the space, for Rozier on the Pacers roster

And he's also an upcoming FA, so Pacers aren't going to want to be the one to overpay him

Using Rozier as the centrepiece for a Myles Turner deal is just a fundamentally flawed idea from the beginning



It's as if, "Just play anyone at PF who cares!"


Washington and Brissett are essentially best at the 4. Also, we have to assume that a lot of the deals will consider Warren a 4, as all the calls after the bubble were to deal Turner so Warren could continue to play the 4 he excelled at in the bubble.
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Re: CHA - IND 

Post#10 » by Xman » Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:46 pm

I read the story about team looking to get Turner and it said CHA might be most AGRESSIVE. This is not aggressive.
Turner is a center with a reasonable cap number. GS could really use him and Wiseman and #14 seems like something they would do in a minute - which is way more than this.
Aggressive = something like #11 + PJ + Bridges + future picks and/or Graham. Depending on the picks, I would still prefer 14 and Wiseman. Or, 19, 21 and Obi. Or, #8, WCarter, Bamba and Okeke. Or, Siakam for Lamb and Turner. Or, etc.

As far as Rozier goes, let CHA keep him as their SG. I tried to put him in trades before the season and everyone said he was huge negative. Now, he is supposed to a huge positive. The truth is in between (I do like his 3 point percentage a lot though). Still, he is not a big plus to Indy. Worth more to CHA than other teams.
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Re: CHA - IND 

Post#11 » by amcoolio » Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:55 pm

Xman wrote:I read the story about team looking to get Turner and it said CHA might be most AGRESSIVE. This is not aggressive.
Turner is a center with a reasonable cap number. GS could really use him and Wiseman and #14 seems like something they would do in a minute - which is way more than this.
Aggressive = something like #11 + PJ + Bridges + future picks and/or Graham. Depending on the picks, I would still prefer 14 and Wiseman. Or, 19, 21 and Obi. Or, #8, WCarter, Bamba and Okeke. Or, Siakam for Lamb and Turner. Or, etc.

As far as Rozier goes, let CHA keep him as their SG. I tried to put him in trades before the season and everyone said he was huge negative. Now, he is supposed to a huge positive. The truth is in between (I do like his 3 point percentage a lot though). Still, he is not a big plus to Indy. Worth more to CHA than other teams.


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Myles Turner is not an all-star. He's an oft injured role player. That is a star package. That is a Ben Simmons package. Hell Brooklyn gave up less for James Harden!

I'm not even sure I would trade PJ Washington for Turner straight up. Only if we win the lottery and take Cunningham.
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Re: CHA - IND 

Post#12 » by hugepatsfan » Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:03 pm

CHA will regret giving up Washington plus more for Turner.
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Re: CHA - IND 

Post#13 » by KEMBAtheMETEOR » Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:07 pm

amcoolio wrote:
Xman wrote:I read the story about team looking to get Turner and it said CHA might be most AGRESSIVE. This is not aggressive.
Turner is a center with a reasonable cap number. GS could really use him and Wiseman and #14 seems like something they would do in a minute - which is way more than this.
Aggressive = something like #11 + PJ + Bridges + future picks and/or Graham. Depending on the picks, I would still prefer 14 and Wiseman. Or, 19, 21 and Obi. Or, #8, WCarter, Bamba and Okeke. Or, Siakam for Lamb and Turner. Or, etc.

As far as Rozier goes, let CHA keep him as their SG. I tried to put him in trades before the season and everyone said he was huge negative. Now, he is supposed to a huge positive. The truth is in between (I do like his 3 point percentage a lot though). Still, he is not a big plus to Indy. Worth more to CHA than other teams.


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Myles Turner is not an all-star. He's an oft injured role player. That is a star package. That is a Ben Simmons package. Hell Brooklyn gave up less for James Harden!

I'm not even sure I would trade PJ Washington for Turner straight up. Only if we win the lottery and take Cunningham.

that's hyperbolic as hell but your main point stands. A package centered around PJ and a future pick is much closer to reality than flipping 3-4 high quality assets for someone who is not even close to all-star caliber. Turner is a significantly better player than PJ though, and a fantastic fit, I think that is undeniable.
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Re: CHA - IND 

Post#14 » by amcoolio » Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:13 pm

KEMBAtheMETEOR wrote:
amcoolio wrote:
Xman wrote:I read the story about team looking to get Turner and it said CHA might be most AGRESSIVE. This is not aggressive.
Turner is a center with a reasonable cap number. GS could really use him and Wiseman and #14 seems like something they would do in a minute - which is way more than this.
Aggressive = something like #11 + PJ + Bridges + future picks and/or Graham. Depending on the picks, I would still prefer 14 and Wiseman. Or, 19, 21 and Obi. Or, #8, WCarter, Bamba and Okeke. Or, Siakam for Lamb and Turner. Or, etc.

As far as Rozier goes, let CHA keep him as their SG. I tried to put him in trades before the season and everyone said he was huge negative. Now, he is supposed to a huge positive. The truth is in between (I do like his 3 point percentage a lot though). Still, he is not a big plus to Indy. Worth more to CHA than other teams.


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Myles Turner is not an all-star. He's an oft injured role player. That is a star package. That is a Ben Simmons package. Hell Brooklyn gave up less for James Harden!

I'm not even sure I would trade PJ Washington for Turner straight up. Only if we win the lottery and take Cunningham.

that's hyperbolic as hell but your main point stands. A package centered around PJ and a future pick is much closer to reality than flipping 3-4 high quality assets for someone who is not even close to all-star caliber. Turner is a significantly better player than PJ though, and a fantastic fit, I think that is undeniable.


PJ is 3 years younger and there are 15-16 centers in the league right now that would help us and more coming in the draft that we don't need to grossly overpay or give up one of young players so early
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Re: CHA - IND 

Post#15 » by MasterIchiro » Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:19 pm

aguiar95 wrote:
Topofthekey wrote:Terrible

There is no need, or even the space, for Rozier on the Pacers roster

And he's also an upcoming FA, so Pacers aren't going to want to be the one to overpay him

Using Rozier as the centrepiece for a Myles Turner deal is just a fundamentally flawed idea from the beginning


Not sure if you even read the trade. Rozier is the least valuable piece they're sending you ....


If that's the case then it's a no from Charlotte. A leading scorer holds comparable value to a leading defender. Kupchak is not using Rozier just for matching. Rozier is highly valued by our front office despite Pacers fans resistance to him.

But I think if we wait past draft night and keep Rozier out of the deal so we can see what happens with Monk, the deal would be based around Washington + a future first. Monk would need to sign a cheaper deal before this permutation can be executed.
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Re: CHA - IND 

Post#16 » by xxSnEaKyPxx » Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:22 pm

I don't think there is really a single trade between the Pacers and Hornets that makes sense for both teams. The Hornets really have nothing to offer(that they would actually offer) and the Pacers aren't just going to give him to the Hornets for free, so any potential trade between the two teams is dead before discussions would even get started.
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Re: CHA - IND 

Post#17 » by MasterIchiro » Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:27 pm

xxSnEaKyPxx wrote:I don't think there is really a single trade between the Pacers and Hornets that makes sense for both teams. The Hornets really have nothing to offer(that they would actually offer) and the Pacers aren't just going to give him to the Hornets for free, so any potential trade between the two teams is dead before discussions would even get started.


I don't imagine our GM persistent about a pursuit over time where he has nothing to work with. He wouldn't waste his time or yours. An aggressive offer is subjective.
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Re: CHA - IND 

Post#18 » by xxSnEaKyPxx » Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:29 pm

MasterIchiro wrote:
xxSnEaKyPxx wrote:I don't think there is really a single trade between the Pacers and Hornets that makes sense for both teams. The Hornets really have nothing to offer(that they would actually offer) and the Pacers aren't just going to give him to the Hornets for free, so any potential trade between the two teams is dead before discussions would even get started.


I don't imagine our GM persistent about a pursuit over time where he has nothing to work with. He wouldn't waste his time or yours. An aggressive offer is subjective.

Sure, but every single team in the NBA values their players more than other teams. So he could believe Cody Zeller and a top 20 protected pick next season is an aggressive offer....problem is, the Pacers wouldn't remotely consider that...hence there really not being much of a starting point.
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Re: CHA - IND 

Post#19 » by MasterIchiro » Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:36 pm

xxSnEaKyPxx wrote:
MasterIchiro wrote:
xxSnEaKyPxx wrote:I don't think there is really a single trade between the Pacers and Hornets that makes sense for both teams. The Hornets really have nothing to offer(that they would actually offer) and the Pacers aren't just going to give him to the Hornets for free, so any potential trade between the two teams is dead before discussions would even get started.


I don't imagine our GM persistent about a pursuit over time where he has nothing to work with. He wouldn't waste his time or yours. An aggressive offer is subjective.

Sure, but every single team in the NBA values their players more than other teams. So he could believe Cody Zeller and a top 20 protected pick next season is an aggressive offer....problem is, the Pacers wouldn't remotely consider that...hence there really not being much of a starting point.


Well, he can't offer Zeller because his contract is over. And we now know the Hornets pick is 11 not 20. And we have a better assessment of Monk. I honestly think the goal is to keep Rozier and worry about Monk later. Given more certainty with the draft and free agency, I would think a draft day trade is less likely. I think Kupchak is basing offers around PJ and future drafts but would push only after he knows how Monk fits the budget. Back at the deadline, Pacers probably could've had Miles Bridges. He's untouchable now though. We know more about him as well. I'd wait. And I wouldn't jump into conclusions about your front office hating PJ or Rozier or lottery picks.
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Re: CHA - IND 

Post#20 » by xxSnEaKyPxx » Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:39 pm

MasterIchiro wrote:
xxSnEaKyPxx wrote:
MasterIchiro wrote:
I don't imagine our GM persistent about a pursuit over time where he has nothing to work with. He wouldn't waste his time or yours. An aggressive offer is subjective.

Sure, but every single team in the NBA values their players more than other teams. So he could believe Cody Zeller and a top 20 protected pick next season is an aggressive offer....problem is, the Pacers wouldn't remotely consider that...hence there really not being much of a starting point.


Well, he can't offer Zeller because his contract is over. And we now know the Hornets pick is 11 not 20. And we have a better assessment of Monk. I honestly think the goal is to keep Rozier and worry about Monk later. Given more certainty with the draft and free agency, I would think a draft day trade is less likely. I think Kupchak is basing offers around PJ and future drafts but would push only after he knows how Monk fits the budget. Back at the deadline, Pacers probably could've had Miles Bridges. He's untouchable now though. We know more about him as well. I'd wait. And I wouldn't jump into conclusions about your front office hating PJ or Rozier or lottery picks.

I wasn't saying that exact offer, just simply making an example that his idea of aggressive offer probably doesn't do it for the Pacers.

And you mentioning all these players being untouchable is essentially proving the exact point I'm trying to make.

"We will make an aggressive offer, but all of the players you'd be interested in are off the table."

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