Kemba Walker to Orlando

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Re: Kemba Walker to Orlando 

Post#21 » by BK_2020 » Fri Jun 11, 2021 3:48 pm

zimpy27 wrote:I like it but I always wonder what Boston are doing for playmaking after these types of trades.

Jaylen Brown midrange turnaround jumpers 20 times a game, of course
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Re: Kemba Walker to Orlando 

Post#22 » by hugepatsfan » Fri Jun 11, 2021 4:26 pm

orlando_joe wrote:as magic fan would do it if kemba agreed to buyout full pay next season opt out last yr and let go this summer to join any team he wants..boston saves some money gets ross and small tpe..but if he would agree maybe boston just does that..lol...with all young guards in orlando do not want to give him any playing time ...and 16th pick ? in draft magic look to have 2 lottery picks to go with 3 rookies from last yr and the 33rd pick in this draft,, to give up 36 mill in space in 22-23 magic pass


Just for full disclosure, you guys are taking on Kemba at $37.7M but also sending back TRoss at $11.5M. So netted, you guys are taking on "only" about $26.2M haha

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/orlando-magic/cap/2022/

Spotrac has you guys at $55.9M in salaries that offseason. Add in the extra $26.2M and that brings you guys to $82.1M, that vs a projected $115.8M cap (that leaves $33.7M of room).

However, that does not include re-signing Bamba or WCJ - not sure to what extend those guys prove themselves worth paying (particularly Bamba). It also doesn't include the salary of this year's picks. So all of that would probably eat up the remaining cap room.

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/orlando-magic/cap/2023/

So then looking ahead to 2023, the cap sheet would be clean with Kemba gone. Add to what spotrac has here WCJ and/or Bamba re-signing and 2021/2022 draft picks, and ORL is still looking at a max slot to go with their young core.

So, in summary, acquiring Kemba would push you guys back a year from being able to add to to your young core in free agency. Without this trade, you guys are in good position to do so next offseason. With this trade, you have to push it out a year.

So it comes down to how long of a rebuild you intend to embark on and how the desire to participate in free agency next year measures up against the assets Boston is sending back. You make a good point about having lots of picks this year so maybe #16 is a weird fit. At the same time, you guys got Cole Anthony at #15 for example. If your GM is looking at the draft board and feels like he could get another guy of that caliber at #16 I would think there's plenty of room in the rebuild for that regardless of how many young guys you have.

A trade like this is a major organization decision. I made the case earlier for why I think the value is fair, but there's a lot to be discussed on if the value is in the right form for ORL to accept and whether it's worth the downstream impact on timing of their rebuild.
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Re: Kemba Walker to Orlando 

Post#23 » by Magic_Johnny12 » Fri Jun 11, 2021 4:32 pm

This is an easy pass and easy laugh.

1) Orlando doesn't need any more picks in this draft and even if it was future draft pick considerations it would not be nearly enough for Orlando to absorb Kembas albatross of a contract.

2) Kemba is not a low risk high reward kind of player Orlando will be seeking in a deal as such. He is older, has health concerns and plays a redundant position. They much rather use a similar package to acquire Kristaps.

3) Ross not being dealt at deadline doesn't mean he doesn't have value lmao. That's a new one.

4) Harris is currently Orlandos starting 2 guard and is on a huge 19m expiring. He will act as a key veteran on a very young Orlando team and be a key piece in any larger deal Orlando decides to make. So yes, he may carry negative value around the league in regards to production, but he holds tremendous value to Orlando with all things considered.

5) Fultz is still the future
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Re: Kemba Walker to Orlando 

Post#24 » by Nyce_1 » Fri Jun 11, 2021 4:45 pm

MoneyTalks41890 wrote:
Nyce_1 wrote:Orl easily passes. That contract and player do not line up with our new direction. And giving away Harris & Ross, who are good vets to have around out super young, and can return some decent pieces on their own, doesn't make sense.

Hard no.


Harris is definitely a negative contract.

it's a $20M expiring. What's negative about that?
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Re: Kemba Walker to Orlando 

Post#25 » by Nyce_1 » Fri Jun 11, 2021 4:48 pm

Couch Potato wrote:Orlando giving up on Fultz?

the FO is still very high on Fultz and thus, another reason why they don't even think about this deal.
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Re: Kemba Walker to Orlando 

Post#26 » by MoneyTalks41890 » Fri Jun 11, 2021 4:52 pm

Nyce_1 wrote:
MoneyTalks41890 wrote:
Nyce_1 wrote:Orl easily passes. That contract and player do not line up with our new direction. And giving away Harris & Ross, who are good vets to have around out super young, and can return some decent pieces on their own, doesn't make sense.

Hard no.


Harris is definitely a negative contract.

it's a $20M expiring. What's negative about that?


He's worth about 5 million of that.
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Re: Kemba Walker to Orlando 

Post#27 » by patman66 » Fri Jun 11, 2021 4:53 pm

JediMasterRevan wrote:I can almost guarantee, based on recent free agents, that Kemba will opt out of the final year of his deal.

Especially if the team he is traded to isnt in the running to win a championship


Which is why I can figure out why the celts would trade him this off season.
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Re: Kemba Walker to Orlando 

Post#28 » by orlando_joe » Fri Jun 11, 2021 5:17 pm

hugepatsfan wrote:
orlando_joe wrote:as magic fan would do it if kemba agreed to buyout full pay next season opt out last yr and let go this summer to join any team he wants..boston saves some money gets ross and small tpe..but if he would agree maybe boston just does that..lol...with all young guards in orlando do not want to give him any playing time ...and 16th pick ? in draft magic look to have 2 lottery picks to go with 3 rookies from last yr and the 33rd pick in this draft,, to give up 36 mill in space in 22-23 magic pass


Just for full disclosure, you guys are taking on Kemba at $37.7M but also sending back TRoss at $11.5M. So netted, you guys are taking on "only" about $26.2M haha

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/orlando-magic/cap/2022/

Spotrac has you guys at $55.9M in salaries that offseason. Add in the extra $26.2M and that brings you guys to $82.1M, that vs a projected $115.8M cap (that leaves $33.7M of room).

However, that does not include re-signing Bamba or WCJ - not sure to what extend those guys prove themselves worth paying (particularly Bamba). It also doesn't include the salary of this year's picks. So all of that would probably eat up the remaining cap room.

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/orlando-magic/cap/2023/

So then looking ahead to 2023, the cap sheet would be clean with Kemba gone. Add to what spotrac has here WCJ and/or Bamba re-signing and 2021/2022 draft picks, and ORL is still looking at a max slot to go with their young core.

So, in summary, acquiring Kemba would push you guys back a year from being able to add to to your young core in free agency. Without this trade, you guys are in good position to do so next offseason. With this trade, you have to push it out a year.

So it comes down to how long of a rebuild you intend to embark on and how the desire to participate in free agency next year measures up against the assets Boston is sending back. You make a good point about having lots of picks this year so maybe #16 is a weird fit. At the same time, you guys got Cole Anthony at #15 for example. If your GM is looking at the draft board and feels like he could get another guy of that caliber at #16 I would think there's plenty of room in the rebuild for that regardless of how many young guys you have.

A trade like this is a major organization decision. I made the case earlier for why I think the value is fair, but there's a lot to be discussed on if the value is in the right form for ORL to accept and whether it's worth the downstream impact on timing of their rebuild.

i see it as 36 mill in 22-23...ross i see as a positive even if he could get a 2nd back next summer? he would be easy to get off books..but i see you laughed so i think you see that
yea a 16th pick not worth putting off extra yr of tank to take on player that would take min from young players or make next yrs pick even 5 spots worse for no real reason...hoping for only 1 more yr in lottery then add vets in holes needed..you need space for that
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Re: Kemba Walker to Orlando 

Post#29 » by JediMasterRevan » Fri Jun 11, 2021 5:19 pm

patman66 wrote:
JediMasterRevan wrote:I can almost guarantee, based on recent free agents, that Kemba will opt out of the final year of his deal.

Especially if the team he is traded to isnt in the running to win a championship


Which is why I can figure out why the celts would trade him this off season.



Bad fit, free a little money, improve a position of greater weakness.

Other than that he is, at this point in time, a big expiring for Boston, cause IMO, they should bring him off the bench if they dont deal him (Which most likely will prompt him to opt out at seasons end). And I dont think they deal him at a loss, but they wont want another "big name" to leave for nothing either.
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Re: Kemba Walker to Orlando 

Post#30 » by Nyce_1 » Fri Jun 11, 2021 5:48 pm

MoneyTalks41890 wrote:
Nyce_1 wrote:
MoneyTalks41890 wrote:
Harris is definitely a negative contract.

it's a $20M expiring. What's negative about that?


He's worth about 5 million of that.

I mean, i'd say he's worth at least MLE. One could argue his expiring is worth more than his on-court production, but regardless, that still means it's a positive asset; not negative.

A negative contract is Kemba :lol: .
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Re: Kemba Walker to Orlando 

Post#31 » by MoneyTalks41890 » Fri Jun 11, 2021 5:50 pm

Nyce_1 wrote:
MoneyTalks41890 wrote:
Nyce_1 wrote:it's a $20M expiring. What's negative about that?


He's worth about 5 million of that.

I mean, i'd say he's worth at least MLE. One could argue his expiring is worth more than his on-court production, but regardless, that still means it's a positive asset; not negative.

A negative contract is Kemba :lol: .


A positive asset is cap space, TPE, or a player who is worth his contract or is worth more than his contract. Overpaid one year players can still be negative value. But, yes, Kemba is obviously more negative.
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Re: Kemba Walker to Orlando 

Post#32 » by Nyce_1 » Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:14 pm

MoneyTalks41890 wrote:
Nyce_1 wrote:
MoneyTalks41890 wrote:
He's worth about 5 million of that.

I mean, i'd say he's worth at least MLE. One could argue his expiring is worth more than his on-court production, but regardless, that still means it's a positive asset; not negative.

A negative contract is Kemba :lol: .


A positive asset is cap space, TPE, or a player who is worth his contract or is worth more than his contract. Overpaid one year players can still be negative value. But, yes, Kemba is obviously more negative.

A positive asset is also an expiring contract that is used in exchange to allow a team to rid itself of a negative contract (or asset) or to create desired cap space.
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Re: Kemba Walker to Orlando 

Post#33 » by MoneyTalks41890 » Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:16 pm

Nyce_1 wrote:
MoneyTalks41890 wrote:
Nyce_1 wrote:I mean, i'd say he's worth at least MLE. One could argue his expiring is worth more than his on-court production, but regardless, that still means it's a positive asset; not negative.

A negative contract is Kemba :lol: .


A positive asset is cap space, TPE, or a player who is worth his contract or is worth more than his contract. Overpaid one year players can still be negative value. But, yes, Kemba is obviously more negative.

A positive asset is also an expiring contract that is used in exchange to allow a team to rid itself of a negative contract (or asset) or to create desired cap space.


No, that's just a less negative asset. Would anyone take Harris into cap space for free? No, they wouldn't.
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Re: Kemba Walker to Orlando 

Post#34 » by patman66 » Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:51 pm

JediMasterRevan wrote:
patman66 wrote:
JediMasterRevan wrote:I can almost guarantee, based on recent free agents, that Kemba will opt out of the final year of his deal.

Especially if the team he is traded to isnt in the running to win a championship


Which is why I can figure out why the celts would trade him this off season.



Bad fit, free a little money, improve a position of greater weakness.

Other than that he is, at this point in time, a big expiring for Boston, cause IMO, they should bring him off the bench if they dont deal him (Which most likely will prompt him to opt out at seasons end). And I dont think they deal him at a loss, but they wont want another "big name" to leave for nothing either.


Leave for nothing, this is worse than leave for nothing. It didn't cost anything but money for Horford, Kemba and Hayward, what is the big loss if they leave. This has us attaching assets, We can keep him this year and still avoid repeater rates, so why give away assets now, it is not like Pritchard is ready to run the team. This is absolutely the worse time to trade Kemba. I think he will be fine playing 20min a game and keeping wear of the knee so if he opts out he can get a little more money as a FA.
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Re: Kemba Walker to Orlando 

Post#35 » by JediMasterRevan » Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:54 pm

patman66 wrote:
JediMasterRevan wrote:
patman66 wrote:
Which is why I can figure out why the celts would trade him this off season.



Bad fit, free a little money, improve a position of greater weakness.

Other than that he is, at this point in time, a big expiring for Boston, cause IMO, they should bring him off the bench if they dont deal him (Which most likely will prompt him to opt out at seasons end). And I dont think they deal him at a loss, but they wont want another "big name" to leave for nothing either.


Leave for nothing, this is worse than leave for nothing. It didn't cost anything but money for Horford, Kemba and Hayward, what is the big loss if they leave. This has us attaching assets, We can keep him this year and still avoid repeater rates, so why give away assets now, it is not like Pritchard is ready to run the team. This is absolutely the worse time to trade Kemba. I think he will be fine playing 20min a game and keeping wear of the knee so if he opts out he can get a little more money as a FA.



I dont agree that it will cost an asset to move Kemba Walker.

20+ppg, 4.5rpg, 5.5apg 46% and 36% post allstar break while playing on a poorly coached team with little to no ball movement.

A full offseason to recoup, and full training camp and a non condensed schedule will see Kemba back to 23+ppg, 4.5rpg, 6+apg with better percentages and fewer games missed.


You dont attach an asset to that kind of production
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Re: Kemba Walker to Orlando 

Post#36 » by patman66 » Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:03 pm

JediMasterRevan wrote:
patman66 wrote:
JediMasterRevan wrote:

Bad fit, free a little money, improve a position of greater weakness.

Other than that he is, at this point in time, a big expiring for Boston, cause IMO, they should bring him off the bench if they dont deal him (Which most likely will prompt him to opt out at seasons end). And I dont think they deal him at a loss, but they wont want another "big name" to leave for nothing either.


Leave for nothing, this is worse than leave for nothing. It didn't cost anything but money for Horford, Kemba and Hayward, what is the big loss if they leave. This has us attaching assets, We can keep him this year and still avoid repeater rates, so why give away assets now, it is not like Pritchard is ready to run the team. This is absolutely the worse time to trade Kemba. I think he will be fine playing 20min a game and keeping wear of the knee so if he opts out he can get a little more money as a FA.



I dont agree that it will cost an asset to move Kemba Walker.

20+ppg, 4.5rpg, 5.5apg 46% and 36% post allstar break while playing on a poorly coached team with little to no ball movement.

A full offseason to recoup, and full training camp and a non condensed schedule will see Kemba back to 23+ppg, 4.5rpg, 6+apg with better percentages and fewer games missed.


You dont attach an asset to that kind of production


You seem to be in a small minority with that view of Kemba's production. When on the court-yeah his play does not require an asset - what requires an asset is for the other team to take the chance that he plays enough games at that level next year to warrant the 35 mil. As a celtic fan I would want an asset to take on that deal for two years, now next summer if he plays 65 games this year, I would be ok with taking him into space if we had it without an asset.

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