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Im currently in the bargaining stage of my Suns finals grief. Dame is spending two weeks with Book in Tokyo and I bet CP and Bron are hanging in LA (or wherever). Lets say they ask for a move to Suns and Lakers respectively.

First Trade:
Thunder receive Cam Johnson, 2022 PHX 1st (Lift Protections)

Suns receive #16 and #18

Second Trade:
Blazers receive Buddy Hield, Kevin Love, #3, #9, PHX 2023 Swap, PHX 2024 1st, PHX 2026 1st, 2026 LAL 1st.

Lakers receive Chris Paul and #29

Cavs receive Deandre Ayton, Derrick Jones Jr, Kyle Kuzma, #16

Kings receive Lary Nance Jr., Montrezl Harrell, #18

Suns receive Dame Lillard, Jusuf Nurkic, Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, #22

Why:
Thunder get a starting caliber wing who can shoot and guard multiple positions - probably what they would be praying for at 16/18 anyway. 2022 pic becomes completely unprotected giving them a shot to benefit from a flukey injury riddled Suns season.

Blazers get a draft haul. Receive two top 10 pics and three future firsts. Jalen Suggs can come into a quality situation. Hield will increase value as his contract declines. Love, while over paid, can still play and is a tradeable large salary in 22/23.

Lakers get Bron's guy CP3 and keep a 2021 pick. They will need young bodies.

Cavs add Ayton and accelerate their rebuild. Kuzma should benefit from new scenery and the teams shooting overall should be helped by Aytons gravity. Cavs open up a lot of space moving Love's salary. Shooting will be available at #16.

Kings want win now pieces and need help in the front court. Nance Jr and Harrell fill that need. An unhappy Hield moves on, loosens up the crowded back court and cap space for Holmes. Can still add someone decent at #18.

Suns get Lillard, KCP, Nukic and #22 by tearing their NBA Finals roster apart losing CP, Ayton, and Cam plus their future draft capital. The reasons to do this and not do this are pretty obvious.

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Cavs have allen already. I think a deal around ayton+value to raptors for 4 straight up makes more sense

Godaddycurse wrote:Cavs have allen already. I think a deal around ayton+value to raptors for 4 straight up makes more sense

Think Ayton is significantly more valuable than Allen and has a lot more upside. I may be biased but I dont think the larger NBA world would disagree.

If its a Mobley v Ayton value at 4 I dont think the Suns should add much of any extra value.

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jredsaz wrote:

Godaddycurse wrote:Cavs have allen already. I think a deal around ayton+value to raptors for 4 straight up makes more sense

Think Ayton is significantly more valuable than Allen and has a lot more upside. I may be biased but I dont think the larger NBA world would disagree.

If its a Mobley v Ayton value at 4 I dont think the Suns should add much of any extra value.

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mobley has 3 more cheap years than ayton.

Right now you're saying ayton+DJJ = love+3 (i have kuzma/16 and nance jr a wash) in OP. it sounds like you value #3 significantly more than ayton

This deal is way too big to even digest so I'll just focus on the discussion ongoing.

I have Ayton>Mobley>>>Allen in terms of value. Now I get Mobley has the extra cheap years, but Ayton has now established a very solid floor particularly as he transitioned his play this season to a much more valuable brand of basketball. I can see Toronto choosing to gamble on Mobley over paying Ayton a huge deal in a year, but as the Suns I'd not trade Ayton for 4.

Allen not even in the discussion with those other 2 especially not if Cleveland is really prepared to pay $25M per as their fans insist they are.

Godaddycurse wrote:

jredsaz wrote:

Godaddycurse wrote:Cavs have allen already. I think a deal around ayton+value to raptors for 4 straight up makes more sense

Think Ayton is significantly more valuable than Allen and has a lot more upside. I may be biased but I dont think the larger NBA world would disagree.

If its a Mobley v Ayton value at 4 I dont think the Suns should add much of any extra value.

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mobley has 3 more cheap years than ayton.

Right now you're saying ayton+DJJ = love+3 (i have kuzma/16 and nance jr a wash) in OP. it sounds like you value #3 significantly more than ayton

Not really. I think Ayton is about equal to 4. He won't be a #1 like Suggs, Green, Cade can be from the guard position. But he is a much better prospect than Mobley.

I dont think Love is a negative value for either team. Both teams won't be tanking in this scenario and he fits well with either. Neither team is a FA destination. Guy is still super efficient and smart bball player. Has a ring. Think Portland would love to have him help the team transition from Dame to Suggs.

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Texas Chuck wrote:This deal is way too big to even digest so I'll just focus on the discussion ongoing.

I have Ayton>Mobley>>>Allen in terms of value. Now I get Mobley has the extra cheap years, but Ayton has now established a very solid floor particularly as he transitioned his play this season to a much more valuable brand of basketball. I can see Toronto choosing to gamble on Mobley over paying Ayton a huge deal in a year, but as the Suns I'd not trade Ayton for 4.

Allen not even in the discussion with those other 2 especially not if Cleveland is really prepared to pay $25M per as their fans insist they are.

Its really big. Too much time on my hands. Lol

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Lol at trading Ayton for potential. When Ayton is already gold with potential to be greater with just maturity and experience.

Lillard doesnt play defense and as Bucks have proven you win with defense.

Rubbish trade for suns. Absolute rubbish.

Booker and Lillard would be Blazers 2.0 but in Arizona.

Texas Chuck wrote:This deal is way too big to even digest so I'll just focus on the discussion ongoing.

I have Ayton>Mobley>>>Allen in terms of value. Now I get Mobley has the extra cheap years, but Ayton has now established a very solid floor particularly as he transitioned his play this season to a much more valuable brand of basketball. I can see Toronto choosing to gamble on Mobley over paying Ayton a huge deal in a year, but as the Suns I'd not trade Ayton for 4.

Allen not even in the discussion with those other 2 especially not if Cleveland is really prepared to pay $25M per as their fans insist they are.

Honestly feel like the Raps would flip 4 for Ayton in a heart beat. Probably would add value. They become a legit eastern conference contender with Ayton/Siakim/FVV/OG/and a resigned Lowery. A lot of length, defense, and shooting. But im a believe in Siakim. Think last year was a hiccup.

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No for Portland, Love is a huge negative, he has regressed, is owed a ton of money, and is injury prone which is the last thing the Blazers need.

thamadkant wrote:Lol at trading Ayton for potential. When Ayton is already gold with potential to be greater with just maturity and experience.

Lillard doesnt play defense and as Bucks have proven you win with defense.

Rubbish trade for suns. Absolute rubbish.

Booker and Lillard would be Blazers 2.0 but in Arizona.

This is definitely the argument against. I disagree they would be Portland south tho. They would be a much better defensive team with Bridges, Crowder, KCP. **** Booker is a much better defender than CJ. Nurk is a good defender too even if he can't be counted on to stay healthy.

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Portland says no. Taking on Love's and Hield's bad contracts would require most of the draft picks Portland receives( certainly all the ones from Phoenix and LA meaning Portland is surrendering both Lillard and Nurkic for the 3rd and 9th picks at best. This trade is nowhere near worth it for Portland.

dive135 wrote:No for Portland, Love is a huge negative, he has regressed, is owed a ton of money, and is injury prone which is the last thing the Blazers need.

First, I would guess this could go through with Love staying in Cleveland.

But why a negative? If Blazers are trading Dame they aren't trying to win a ring next season. The money is inconsequential because Blazers wouldnt be look for big time free agents - something they never get anyway.

He fits schematiclly. Has a ring. I would love him in a rebuilding team that isn't trying to tank.


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jredsaz wrote:

dive135 wrote:No for Portland, Love is a huge negative, he has regressed, is owed a ton of money, and is injury prone which is the last thing the Blazers need.

First, I would guess this could go through with Love staying in Cleveland.

But why a negative? If Blazers are trading Dame they aren't trying to win a ring next season. The money is inconsequential because Blazers wouldnt be look for big time free agents - something they never get anyway.

He fits schematiclly. Has a ring. I would love him in a rebuilding team that isn't trying to tank.


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Nobody is taking on Love's contract without a good amount of compensation and that would mean either a reasonably high pick or multiple picks. Hield probably costs at least one late first as well. Yet you have Portland trading away Dame and Nurkic and taking on two bad contracts just because. No thanks.

Brandon-Clyde wrote:Portland says no. Taking on Love's and Hield's bad contracts would require most of the draft picks Portland receives( certainly all the ones from Phoenix and LA meaning Portland is surrendering both Lillard and Nurkic for the 3rd and 9th picks at best. This trade is nowhere near worth it for Portland.

I dont see them as negatives to a team in this position. Overpaid? Sure. But both are useful players. Both fit. Love is a huge expiring trade chip a season from now and Hields contract declines.

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jredsaz wrote:

Brandon-Clyde wrote:Portland says no. Taking on Love's and Hield's bad contracts would require most of the draft picks Portland receives( certainly all the ones from Phoenix and LA meaning Portland is surrendering both Lillard and Nurkic for the 3rd and 9th picks at best. This trade is nowhere near worth it for Portland.

I dont see them as negatives to a team in this position. Overpaid? Sure. But both are useful players. Both fit. Love is a huge expiring trade chip a season from now and Hields contract declines.

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Both are negative on their contracts and cap space has value. It costs draft picks to take on bad contracts and I don't view the Phoenix picks as anything more than late firsts as Phoenix has a lot of good young players so barring injuries I expect Phoenix to be a good team.

Brandon-Clyde wrote:

jredsaz wrote:

dive135 wrote:No for Portland, Love is a huge negative, he has regressed, is owed a ton of money, and is injury prone which is the last thing the Blazers need.

First, I would guess this could go through with Love staying in Cleveland.

But why a negative? If Blazers are trading Dame they aren't trying to win a ring next season. The money is inconsequential because Blazers wouldnt be look for big time free agents - something they never get anyway.

He fits schematiclly. Has a ring. I would love him in a rebuilding team that isn't trying to tank.


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Nobody is taking on Love's contract without a good amount of compensation and that would mean either a reasonably high pick or multiple picks. Hield probably costs at least one late first as well. Yet you have Portland trading away Dame and Nurkic and taking on two bad contracts just because. No thanks.

No. Honestly would want them on a team with Jalen Suggs as the new star. But whatever, this could get done without either of them and Harrell and KCP or Kuzma going back to Portland.

Love and Hield are over paid. They aren't bad players.

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Brandon-Clyde wrote:

jredsaz wrote:

Brandon-Clyde wrote:Portland says no. Taking on Love's and Hield's bad contracts would require most of the draft picks Portland receives( certainly all the ones from Phoenix and LA meaning Portland is surrendering both Lillard and Nurkic for the 3rd and 9th picks at best. This trade is nowhere near worth it for Portland.

I dont see them as negatives to a team in this position. Overpaid? Sure. But both are useful players. Both fit. Love is a huge expiring trade chip a season from now and Hields contract declines.

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Both are negative on their contracts and cap space has value. It costs draft picks to take on bad contracts and I don't view the Phoenix picks as anything more than late firsts as Phoenix has a lot of good young players so barring injuries I expect Phoenix to be a good team.

What about building a competitive team around your new young potential super star? I'm valuing that over an OKC/Houston style tear down.

If Suggs and CJ work together then use some picks and Loves expiring to go get a legit third piece. If they don't, move CJ for more picks and use Loves expiring to flip for even more picks and bad but longer contract. Rinse and repeat with Hield if that doesn't work out.

But as a suns fan I dont agree with wasting the first 2-3 years of a young stars career because of undervaluing winning compared to over valuing late firsts.

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Looking at how Love has been in the last couple years I would want him no where near Portland, especially if it was a young team. Then the answer proposed is to use draft picks to get rid of him? How about not trade for him or other bad contracts at all, especially as part of a Dame trade. I am not even sure I would want Love at the minimum, he has to much baggage, and would take up a bench spot that could go to a player less likely to be injured.

dive135 wrote:Looking at how Love has been in the last couple years I would want him no where near Portland, especially if it was a young team. Then the answer proposed is to use draft picks to get rid of him? How about not trade for him or other bad contracts at all, especially as part of a Dame trade. I am not even sure I would want Love at the minimum, he has to much baggage, and would take up a bench spot that could go to a player less likely to be injured.

Eh, feel like that that attitude has to do with being on a tanking Cleveland team for three straight season with zero improvement. He is an Olympian and still a super smart basketball player.

Also, don't discount my point by distorting it. In the summer of 22, Loves value would be as an expiring contract. You and I both know it takes big contracts to get big contracts. The picks would not be to get rid of Love, they would be used along with Loves expiring to bring in a long term piece.

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