Ben Simmons Containment Thread Take 3

NYG · Post #1 » by **NYG** » Mon Aug 16, 2021 2:55 am

This is the new start of the Ben Simmons mega thread.
If you have a new Ben Simmons trade, please post it here.
If you want to discuss what teams might be interested in Ben Simmons, please post it here.
If you want to discuss what a 3 team deal for Ben Simmons might look like, please post it here.
If you want to post about what you would or would not pay/accept for Ben Simmons, please post it here

Thanks so much everyone!

SNPA · Post #2 » by **SNPA** » Mon Aug 16, 2021 2:58 am

Morey will likely want Moody not Wiseman.

NYG · Post #3 » by **NYG** » Mon Aug 16, 2021 3:00 am

(Moved here from the old post 1)

Ben Simmons for Andrew Wiggins, James Wiseman, the draft rights to Jonathan Kuminga and a top 20 protected 2022 Golden State Warriors First Round Draft Pick (becomes 2027 and 2028 second round picks if not conveyed)

The Warriors get the best player they can get for that package right now. If they get creative, they could have a really elite defensive team. Not to mention the savings given the Warriors tax situation is extraordinary.

The 76ers get the most value they can get for Simmons right now. The immediate downgrade from Simmons to Wiggins loses some of it's hit in that Wiggins is a better fit and Wiseman would likely get forwarded for the best fitting veteran possible (not sure off the top of my head who a good fit for this is?). Kuminga is someone you work along slowly and maintain as a valuable trade chip if he shows flashes in the play he does get.

SNPA wrote:Morey will likely want Moody not Wiseman.

I would say more likely it involves another team or two with Wiseman going out for a better fitting piece, but this would be the base to branch off of.

NYG · Post #4 » by **NYG** » Mon Aug 16, 2021 3:13 am

NYG wrote:
SNPA wrote:Morey will likely want Moody not Wiseman.

I would say more likely it involves another team or two with Wiseman going out for a better fitting piece, but this would be the base to branch off of.

Philadelphia 76ers get:
Andrew Wiggins
Jonathan Kuminga
Earlier of 2022 Golden State Warriors and Los Angeles Clippers (via OKC) First Round Draft Pick (Later of the two picks goes to the Warriors)

Golden State Warriors get:
Ben Simmons
Kenrich Williams

Oklahoma City Thunder get:
James Wiseman

??

giberish · Post #5 » by **giberish** » Mon Aug 16, 2021 3:19 am

Simmons is just such a horrible fit that it would be a mistake for GS to pay anywhere near full price for him. Philly obviously wouldn't be interested offer that GS should be limited to. Simmons should be dealt to a team that doesn't already have Draymond Green filling his role.

NYG · Post #6 » by **NYG** » Mon Aug 16, 2021 3:54 am

giberish wrote:Simmons is just such a horrible fit that it would be a mistake for GS to pay anywhere near full price for him. Philly obviously wouldn't be interested offer that GS should be limited to. Simmons should be dealt to a team that doesn't already have Draymond Green filling his role.

Couldn't Simmons check a lot of the boxes from the Shaun Livingston and Andre Iguodala roles, but just much, much better?

azwfan · Post #7 » by **azwfan** » Mon Aug 16, 2021 4:00 am

If Wiggins, Kuminga, and picks dont help the Warriors win this year, why would the Sixers want them?

Brick Layer · Post #8 » by **Brick Layer** » Mon Aug 16, 2021 4:01 am

The NBA playoffs are the most important time for premier players to elevate, solidify or deflate their status as top NBA players. When all the chips are on the table during the playoffs, Ben Simmons clearly demonstrated he is not a top 30 NBA player. There is no reason for the Warriors to overpay by trading assets as if Ben Simmons is still a top 30 player when that no longer accurate.

NYG · Post #9 » by **NYG** » Mon Aug 16, 2021 4:03 am

azwfan wrote:If Wiggins, Kuminga, and picks dont help the Warriors win this year, why would the Sixers want them?

The fit or timeline isn't great for Philly, but the value is probably the best option realistically out there.

Post #10 » by **zimpy27** » Mon Aug 16, 2021 4:04 am

What about something like:

Simmons+Reed to GSW
Wiggins+Wiseman+Milton to MEM
Anderson+Melton+Clarke+Beverley+GSW22FRP to PHI

Brick Layer · Post #11 » by **Brick Layer** » Mon Aug 16, 2021 4:06 am

NYG wrote:
giberish wrote:Simmons is just such a horrible fit that it would be a mistake for GS to pay anywhere near full price for him. Philly obviously wouldn't be interested offer that GS should be limited to. Simmons should be dealt to a team that doesn't already have Draymond Green filling his role.

Couldn't Simmons check a lot of the boxes from the Shaun Livingston and Andre Iguodala roles, but just much, much better?

Iguodala and Livingston were role players for the Warriors. The kind of trade assets you want the Warriors to give up should yield at the very least a very strong second option. Reality is Ben Simmons would have a difficult time even being a third option for GSW. That is why I see your Ben Simmons trade proposal as a combination of very poor fit and a serious overpay for the Warriors.

SkyBill40 · Post #12 » by **SkyBill40** » Mon Aug 16, 2021 4:17 am

I know the Sixers are looking for a king's ransom for Simmons but giving up that much for him would be utterly asinine on the part of GSW. Good lord.

Sent from my VS996 using Tapatalk

azwfan · Post #13 » by **azwfan** » Mon Aug 16, 2021 4:27 am

NYG wrote:
azwfan wrote:If Wiggins, Kuminga, and picks dont help the Warriors win this year, why would the Sixers want them?

The fit or timeline isn't great for Philly, but the value is probably the best option realistically out there.

What's the 2nd best offer? Cause this feels like GSW bidding against themselves with assets Philly wouldn't even covet.

stormi · Post #14 » by **stormi** » Mon Aug 16, 2021 4:29 am

Pass. Wiseman does nothing for us. Wiggins is a toxic contract. Heavily protected picks and a raw prospect.

stormi · Post #15 » by **stormi** » Mon Aug 16, 2021 4:46 am

zimpy27 wrote:What about something like:

Simmons+Reed to GSW
Wiggins+Wiseman+Milton to MEM
Anderson+Melton+Clarke+Beverley+GSW22FRP to PHI

Am I wrong for saying this feels like a Tobias Harris trade package?

I love Slo-mo. Melton is one of the most underrated players in the game. Clarke has upside. Pat Bev is solid. But I just can't see this being the trade that keeps Joel in Philadelphia long term or moves us that much closer to winning a championship.

LAL1947 · Post #16 » by **LAL1947** » Mon Aug 16, 2021 5:03 am

stormi wrote:Pass. Wiseman does nothing for us. Wiggins is a toxic contract. Heavily protected picks and a raw prospect.

That's the stance I'd take regarding the players + pick too, unless GSW sweetened the deal a little more for including Wiggins... and don't forget the value of tax savings that the 76ers will be helping GSW obtain with this trade.

Minnesota sent Wiggins AND a 1st round pick to get D'lo (another negative contract), the pick that turned into Kuminga. GSW got lucky getting something back for D'lo as Minnesota was desperate to keep KAT happy by bringing in his BFF. If 76ers take on Wiggins, there is no guarantee they will be able to move Wiggins on without having to pay someone. So I feel GSW has to add something for sending Wiggins in the trade.

(Wiggins + Kuminga) + Wiseman + Moody + 1 FRP (top 8 protected)

So this amounts to: what GSW got for D'lo + Wiseman + Moody + 1 FRP for Ben Simmons, which seems fair.

Post #17 » by **zimpy27** » Mon Aug 16, 2021 5:13 am

stormi wrote:
zimpy27 wrote:What about something like:

Simmons+Reed to GSW
Wiggins+Wiseman+Milton to MEM
Anderson+Melton+Clarke+Beverley+GSW22FRP to PHI

Am I wrong for saying this feels like a Tobias Harris trade package?

I love Slo-mo. Melton is one of the most underrated players in the game. Clarke has upside. Pat Bev is solid. But I just can't see this being the trade that keeps Joel in Philadelphia long term or moves us that much closer to winning a championship.

Well it feels like a package Morey might like. Each of these guys have really good impact metrics but are all well priced.

But you're right, it is lacking a star centrepiece.

Crives · Post #18 » by **Crives** » Mon Aug 16, 2021 5:30 am

Are we sure Simmons is better then Wiggins next year? GS needs to win now… not sure they can wait 2-3 years and hope Simmons learns to shoot or drive. At least Wiggins can shoot the ball…. There are likely much better win now traded if the Warriors want to trade some of their young assets.

Post #19 » by **Domejandro** » Mon Aug 16, 2021 5:49 am

Crives wrote:Are we sure Simmons is better then Wiggins next year?

Yes.

LAL1947 · Post #20 » by **LAL1947** » Mon Aug 16, 2021 6:15 am

Brick Layer wrote:The kind of trade assets you want the Warriors to give up should yield at the very least a very strong second option.

Ben Simmons is a very strong second option.
I'd love to see him join the Mavericks so Luka can finally have a top level partner.

Also, don't forget the value of potential tax savings that the 76ers will be helping GSW obtain with this trade.
That is HUGE... and I'm not seeing it factored in anywhere.