Offseason Grades - Toronto Raptors

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Offseason Grades - Toronto Raptors 

Post#1 » by bondom34 » Fri Sep 3, 2021 2:57 am

Rounding out the Atlantic Division, the Raptors.

Mamba4Goat's Grade:

Toronto Raptors transactions

Front office
Extend and promote Masai Ujiri.

Draft
Drafted Scottie Barnes at pick #4.
Drafted Dalano Banton at pick #46.
Drafted David Johnson at pick #47.

Trades
Traded Kyle Lowry in an S&T to Miami for Precious Achiuwa and Goran Dragic.

Free agency
Waived Rodney Hood ($0 guaranteed).
Waived Aron Baynes ($0 guaranteed).
Waived DeAndre Bembry ($0 guaranteed).
Re-signed Gary Trent Jr., 3/$52M.
Re-signed Khem Birch, 3/$20M.
Signed Sam Dekker, 1/$2M

Offseason Thoughts
Reaching for Scottie Barnes instead of taking Suggs is a giant thumbs down for me. Suggs, in my opinion, was a full tier ahead of Barnes in terms of a prospect.
When they moved Powell for Trent I thought it would be to save money on their next deals. They're making roughly the same amount of money a year (albeit Powell's contract has two more years on it) and Powell is the vastly superior and more proven player. Didn't really like the Trent deal.
Retaining Khem Birch was good though and I don't mind his contract.
My biggest issue with Toronto is that they seem like they're in the middle ground and are kinda Spursing right now. Too good to tank/not make the playoffs, too bad to do anything meaningful in the playoffs and their "young core" isn't exactly young per NBA standards (mostly mid-late 20's).
Their offseason moves indicated a run it back minus Lowry mindset but if I was running Toronto I would at least lean heavier one way or the other. Whether that is a Siakam trade, a Boucher for a bad 1st or a couple of 2nds type of move, etc. or use Dragic's expiring as a salary ballast for a trade for a competing piece. Obviously this could all come midseason though.
Grade
D+

They definitely could've done worse (got nothing for Lowry, drafting Kuminga, etc) but as a whole their offseason was bad.
2022 Prediction
Play-in team (7-10 seed)
If they don't make a move or moves midseason to fully lean one way or the other in terms of competing or not competing a play-in team feels like their sweet spot, especially as the East continues to improve.
Offseason in gif form
Image

K_Chile22's Grade:
Toronto Raptors transactions
Front office
Extend and promote Masai Ujiri.

Draft
Drafted Scottie Barnes at pick #4.
Drafted Dalano Banton at pick #46.
Drafted David Johnson at pick #47.

Trades
Traded Kyle Lowry in an S&T to Miami for Precious Achiuwa and Goran Dragic.

Free agency
Waived Rodney Hood ($0 guaranteed).
Waived Aron Baynes ($0 guaranteed).
Waived DeAndre Bembry ($0 guaranteed).
Re-signed Gary Trent Jr., 3/$52M.
Re-signed Khem Birch, 3/$20M.
Signed Sam Dekker, 1/$2M

Offseason Thoughts:

Obviously keeping someone who is at least in discussion for best FO exec is huge, so good on them there. Getting Precious back in a S&T for Lowry is solid (though they probably should have moved him at the deadline, but that's spilt milk at this point, not a part of the grade).
I generally like the re-signings of Trent and Birch, I just feel like they could have squeezed both a bit more, especially Trent, leveraging his RFA status to do so, but still not like these are necessarily bad deals.
I don't want to put too much stock into the draft just because we have no idea how it's going to end up looking, but Barnes over Suggs still doesn't sit right for me, but I was always lower on Barnes than most.

My one big concern is that I still don't know what they're trying to do. Rebuild? Fight for a low seed in the playoffs? Seems like they're holding onto Siakam, probably the right move since his value is likely at a low point, but because of that context I'm not actually sure they're keeping him to be good or keeping him to rehab value.


Grade:

B+, think just roster moves alone I'd go with a straight B, Masai staying bumps them up, the lack of a clear direction brings them back down a little.

2022 Prediction:

Think they're flirting with the play-in game, 8th-12th seed in the east.

Offseason in gif form

Image

Bondom34's Grade:

Toronto Raptors transactions

Front office
Extend and promote Masai Ujiri.

Draft
Drafted Scottie Barnes at pick #4.
Drafted Dalano Banton at pick #46.
Drafted David Johnson at pick #47.

Trades
Traded Kyle Lowry in an S&T to Miami for Precious Achiuwa and Goran Dragic.

Free agency
Waived Rodney Hood ($0 guaranteed).
Waived Aron Baynes ($0 guaranteed).
Waived DeAndre Bembry ($0 guaranteed).
Re-signed Gary Trent Jr., 3/$52M.
Re-signed Khem Birch, 3/$20M.
Signed Sam Dekker, 1/$2M

Offseason Thoughts
To start this one off I really didn't entirely know the direction Toronto would take this offseason. And while they did make moves to go a little younger I don't know they really did a ton that makes me feel all that great about it other than one move.

That move was the Ujiri extension which by itself is possibly the biggest move of the offseason for them. No other way to put it than to say its a win. I don't love the rest of this offseason but adding some stability for a front office with a proven track record is a win.

Now on to the rest......it started draft night where I don't really plan on hitting teams too hard if they don't exactly pick a guy I liked unless it's a clear difference in tiers, and I was a big Suggs fan, so Barnes here hurt some (though I also like Barnes a decent bit). The second round picks didn't change a ton there, and I could be wrong but its a bit of a demerit.

Then on to free agency where they did get some return for Lowry, though it may really be a bit of the price Miami had to pay to get them to take back Dragic, it was something. Now going back to the trade deadline they could likely have gotten more and not just sat Lowry for the end of the season anyway but this is strictly an offseason grade. Its hard to separate the two and I'm not sure I'm doing it entirely, but it's not really anything more than expected in a sign and trade, with a player taken late first round a year ago and some salary.

Next they went on and had the biggest need of finding a center....so they signed Khem Birch to what seems like too much money entirely as their only rotation quality big man signing. And in RFA news signed Gary Trent Jr. to what was probably a ballpark fair annual value contract as a decent starter but only a 3 year deal with a PO after 2, so a contract with pretty much no team upside that gives him an early out if he outperforms it or locks him in if he doesn't improve. Really in free agency I'm not sure there's a ton I loved here but there also wasn't anything terribly egregious I suppose either.

Ultimately while I have a lot of questions on this one it just feels like an offseason that other than Ujiri left me a bit unimpressed.

Grade
C-/D+, changed this last minute from C- seeing both other grades and comparing this to another offseason that was sort of the inverse of this and not sure how I feel about it

2022 Prediction
10th in the East
Offseason in gif form

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Re: Offseason Grades - Toronto Raptors 

Post#2 » by Godaddycurse » Fri Sep 3, 2021 3:04 am

we waived paul watson and signed Mykhailiuk in FA as well.

My personal view on the transactions of note:

Masai re-signing: A+
Lowry S&T: C+ (pretty much expected return of expiring+1st, small bonus for getting precious instead)
Trent Jr contract: C (meh. PO turned it from B to C for me)
Birch contract: C (high variance. If he keeps up his raptors # from last season this would be a bargain.. if he regress to previous forms then F. I picked middle for now)
Barnes pick - Incomplete (im not good at evaluating prospects.. dont harbour too strong a feeling one way or another.)
I'd give it C+/B-.
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Re: Offseason Grades - Toronto Raptors 

Post#3 » by K_chile22 » Fri Sep 3, 2021 3:55 am

Godaddycurse wrote:we waived paul watson and signed Mykhailiuk in FA as well.

My personal view on the transactions of note:

Masai re-signing: A+
Lowry S&T: C+ (pretty much expected return of expiring+1st, small bonus for getting precious instead)
Trent Jr contract: C (meh. PO turned it from B to C for me)
Birch contract: C (high variance. If he keeps up his raptors # from last season this would be a bargain.. if he regress to previous forms then F. I picked middle for now)
Barnes pick - Incomplete (im not good at evaluating prospects.. dont harbour too strong a feeling one way or another.)
I'd give it C+/B-.
Oof I forgot about that PO when I did that grade
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Re: Offseason Grades - Toronto Raptors 

Post#4 » by bondom34 » Fri Sep 3, 2021 4:02 am

OK was ready to edit mine to say this but will put it here.

Edit: And I'm already 2nd guessing this and feeling more C-. Just didn't care for anything except Ujiri re-signing much but not sure anything did real long term damage other than the draft pick, granted that was also big. Could talk me into either
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Re: Offseason Grades - Toronto Raptors 

Post#5 » by K_chile22 » Fri Sep 3, 2021 4:22 am

bondom34 wrote:OK was ready to edit mine to say this but will put it here.

Edit: And I'm already 2nd guessing this and feeling more C-. Just didn't care for anything except Ujiri re-signing much but not sure anything did real long term damage other than the draft pick, granted that was also big. Could talk me into either
Yeah I don't feel good about my grade either already lol should probably be like a b-/c+. I like Trent more than most and think we shouldn't undersell Masai staying, but B+ was a bit much from me of a few days past
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Re: Offseason Grades - Toronto Raptors 

Post#6 » by Mamba4Goat » Fri Sep 3, 2021 4:26 am

K_chile22 wrote:
bondom34 wrote:OK was ready to edit mine to say this but will put it here.

Edit: And I'm already 2nd guessing this and feeling more C-. Just didn't care for anything except Ujiri re-signing much but not sure anything did real long term damage other than the draft pick, granted that was also big. Could talk me into either
Yeah I don't feel good about my grade either already lol should probably be like a b-/c+. I like Trent more than most and think we shouldn't undersell Masai staying, but B+ was a bit much from me of a few days past

After seeing your grade I was worried i overreacted a little and went too harsh. Dom being on the same-ish page made me feel better about it. :lol:
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Re: Offseason Grades - Toronto Raptors 

Post#7 » by Prokorov » Fri Sep 3, 2021 4:27 am

I liked their offseason. got something for Lowry, and i think scottie barnes is going to be the best player in this draft.

Play-in round sounds really pessimistic. i think they are a lock 3-6 seed. not cause of any move this offseason per-se. i thought last year they underachived and came on late once they got FVV/Siakim/OG all going,

Excellent deep team full of 2-way guys with a good coach and championship mettle. thats not the play in.
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Re: Offseason Grades - Toronto Raptors 

Post#8 » by bondom34 » Fri Sep 3, 2021 4:27 am

K_chile22 wrote:
bondom34 wrote:OK was ready to edit mine to say this but will put it here.

Edit: And I'm already 2nd guessing this and feeling more C-. Just didn't care for anything except Ujiri re-signing much but not sure anything did real long term damage other than the draft pick, granted that was also big. Could talk me into either
Yeah I don't feel good about my grade either already lol should probably be like a b-/c+. I like Trent more than most and think we shouldn't undersell Masai staying, but B+ was a bit much from me of a few days past

I'm conflicted but the Ujiri part is what got me this high. Spoiler alert (I was looking at writing more of these earlier) and I got into Dallas's moves. They locked up Doncic and I didn't mind anything they did but their front office/coaching stuff was a mess to me. The Raptors were the exact opposite where I didn't like anything they did in terms of on court/players but they locked up a good exec. So I think I feel a little more positive toward that than the concept of the opposite happening? Its what got me to think about changing, but don't know.

Edit:

Mamba4Goat wrote:
K_chile22 wrote:
bondom34 wrote:OK was ready to edit mine to say this but will put it here.

Edit: And I'm already 2nd guessing this and feeling more C-. Just didn't care for anything except Ujiri re-signing much but not sure anything did real long term damage other than the draft pick, granted that was also big. Could talk me into either
Yeah I don't feel good about my grade either already lol should probably be like a b-/c+. I like Trent more than most and think we shouldn't undersell Masai staying, but B+ was a bit much from me of a few days past

After seeing your grade I was worried i overreacted a little and went too harsh. Dom being on the same-ish page made me feel better about it. :lol:

And this is why I like having 3 of us :D. For the most part we're at least split 2 vs 1 and someone is similar. Plus I won't lie sometimes I get talked into changing them slightly.
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Re: Offseason Grades - Toronto Raptors 

Post#9 » by cl2117 » Fri Sep 3, 2021 11:37 am

I'm really high on Scottie Barnes, so I'm probably ending up on the higher side of things, but I'll go with a B.

Locking down Masai is HUGE. I thought it was getting a bit odd as it dragged on, but they're really lucky to have him long-term. Barnes I really like overall. I had Suggs rated ahead of him, but not to the point where I'd kick up a fuss if one got chosen over the other. Those moves alone feel like pillars of a good off-season.

The rest was admittedly benign, but I guess I just didn't have a ton of expecations for fireworks from the Raps this off-season. It felt very much all along that it'd be relatively mild off-season. So nailing the pick and locking in Masai feel like enough to warrant a good grade even if there wasn't much else to write home about beyond that.
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Re: Offseason Grades - Toronto Raptors 

Post#10 » by Mavrelous » Fri Sep 3, 2021 11:45 am

The Birch signing is really confusing, they don't want Dragic, Dragic doesn't want to be there, Mavs have similar player to Birch (TBH a better player), they could've traded for, this signing pretty much killed any possibility of a trade between the 2 teams.
Massai is one of the best drafters out there, so the jury is still out, but Suggs looks so good I find it hard to believe it'll be justified to pass over him.
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Re: Offseason Grades - Toronto Raptors 

Post#11 » by Skybox » Fri Sep 3, 2021 12:49 pm

I'm certainly nervous about questioning Masai's evaluation but I really don't get passing on Suggs for Barnes. I like Barnes a lot but even if both reach their projected upsides, it seems like Suggs fits better with the roster AND has a higher upside. I can only take it as Masai just not believing in Suggs (who allegedly had a bad workout). The Lowry thing isn't terrible but it's unfortunate that Dragic isn't in the plans as he's a solid player. I guess we just call it an incomplete until we see what Barnes/Suggs turns into....I like everything else but the 4th pick is a BIG one for a good team who lucked into a high pick...I'll say C
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Re: Offseason Grades - Toronto Raptors 

Post#12 » by E S V L » Fri Sep 3, 2021 1:31 pm

Godaddycurse wrote:Masai re-signing: A+
Lowry S&T: C+ (pretty much expected return of expiring+1st, small bonus for getting precious instead)
Trent Jr contract: C (meh. PO turned it from B to C for me)
Birch contract: C (high variance. If he keeps up his raptors # from last season this would be a bargain.. if he regress to previous forms then F. I picked middle for now)
Barnes pick - Incomplete (im not good at evaluating prospects.. dont harbour too strong a feeling one way or another.)
I'd give it C+/B-.


Some might say that your first grade contradicts all the following. The same people might argue that Kawhi is a small piece of pure luck in the hands of Masai.
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Re: Offseason Grades - Toronto Raptors 

Post#13 » by E S V L » Fri Sep 3, 2021 1:34 pm

The Raptors look as mediocre as they were before and after the Kawhi season. I would urge Toronto fans to adjust their expectations, if they haven`t already done so.
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Re: Offseason Grades - Toronto Raptors 

Post#14 » by Godaddycurse » Fri Sep 3, 2021 1:42 pm

E S V L wrote:The Raptors look as mediocre as they were before and after the Kawhi season. I would urge Toronto fans to adjust their expectations, if they haven`t already done so.


they had the best or 2nd best record in the east before and after the kawhi season. If that's mediocre what does that make memphis?
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Re: Offseason Grades - Toronto Raptors 

Post#15 » by E S V L » Fri Sep 3, 2021 2:02 pm

Godaddycurse wrote:
E S V L wrote:The Raptors look as mediocre as they were before and after the Kawhi season. I would urge Toronto fans to adjust their expectations, if they haven`t already done so.


they had the best or 2nd best record in the east before and after the kawhi season. If that's mediocre what does that make memphis?


I have some bad news for you, man. Are you sitting?

Well, Lowry is gone.
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Re: Offseason Grades - Toronto Raptors 

Post#16 » by Duffman100 » Fri Sep 3, 2021 2:09 pm

E S V L wrote:
Godaddycurse wrote:
E S V L wrote:The Raptors look as mediocre as they were before and after the Kawhi season. I would urge Toronto fans to adjust their expectations, if they haven`t already done so.


they had the best or 2nd best record in the east before and after the kawhi season. If that's mediocre what does that make memphis?


I have some bad news for you, man. Are you sitting?

Well, Lowry is gone.


Doesn't really answer the question about us being 'Mediocre' after the Kawhi season. Having the 2nd best record and going to the 7th game of the 2nd round...
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Re: Offseason Grades - Toronto Raptors 

Post#17 » by HornetJail » Fri Sep 3, 2021 2:15 pm

The Raps and Masai deserve the benefit of the doubt the way they've consistently turned late 1sts/2nds/undrafted players into their core for the future... but I don't see anything happening for them next season. They'll be just good enough not to tank, but nowhere close to the playoffs. Not really where you want to be as a team [stares at the last 14 years of Charlotte basketball] and I think a tear down is coming around the deadline or draft next year, with Siakam and FFV getting sent out for picks.
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Re: Offseason Grades - Toronto Raptors 

Post#18 » by E S V L » Fri Sep 3, 2021 2:26 pm

Duffman100 wrote:
E S V L wrote:
Godaddycurse wrote:
they had the best or 2nd best record in the east before and after the kawhi season. If that's mediocre what does that make memphis?


I have some bad news for you, man. Are you sitting?

Well, Lowry is gone.


Doesn't really answer the question about us being 'Mediocre' after the Kawhi season. Having the 2nd best record and going to the 7th game of the 2nd round...


You want me to be very very specific? No problem. The next season was good because of (1) Lowry, (2) championship`s residual energy and confidence. Both are gone.
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Re: Offseason Grades - Toronto Raptors 

Post#19 » by Texas Chuck » Fri Sep 3, 2021 3:12 pm

So the biggest move was the best -- Masai entrenched at teh top of the organization. Good management is so key to sustained success and this ensures that for them. So despite me liking very little else about their off-season and hating passing on Suggs, its hard to give them anything but an A.
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Re: Offseason Grades - Toronto Raptors 

Post#20 » by Duffman100 » Fri Sep 3, 2021 3:19 pm

E S V L wrote:
Duffman100 wrote:
E S V L wrote:
I have some bad news for you, man. Are you sitting?

Well, Lowry is gone.


Doesn't really answer the question about us being 'Mediocre' after the Kawhi season. Having the 2nd best record and going to the 7th game of the 2nd round...


You want me to be very very specific? No problem. The next season was good because of (1) Lowry, (2) championship`s residual energy and confidence. Both are gone.


So it was good, not mediocre, as you said in your initial post.

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