A bad CJ McCollum for Tobias Harris trade

Moderators: loserX, Trader_Joe, Mamba4Goat, Andre Roberstan, BullyKing, Texas Chuck, pacers33granger, HartfordWhalers

Mamba4Goat
Forum Mod
Forum Mod
Posts: 10,168
And1: 6,833
Joined: Dec 13, 2013
Contact:
   

A bad CJ McCollum for Tobias Harris trade 

Post#1 » by Mamba4Goat » Sun Sep 12, 2021 8:36 pm

Sixers send: Tobias Harris, Seth Curry
Blazers send: CJ McCollum, Robert Covington

Why for Philly? They get their “all star” point guard regardless of a Simmons deal and a fan favorite. Covington’s spacing and team defense will be a nice boost post-Simmons.

Why for Portland? They finally shake things up and role with a Dame-Powell-Harris-Nance-Nurkic group that has a lot more balance.

I don’t feel great about the value and almost added a pick swap to Portland which felt closer.
Rest in peace Mamba. There'll never be another Kobe.
shangrila
RealGM
Posts: 10,289
And1: 3,513
Joined: Dec 21, 2009
Location: Land of Aus
 

Re: A bad CJ McCollum for Tobias Harris trade 

Post#2 » by shangrila » Sun Sep 12, 2021 8:41 pm

It’s not…terrible.

I imagine fans of both teams will turn it down for one reason or another but as an outside fan I think it’s got legs.

It certainly helps to balance the rosters a little more.
Village Idiot
General Manager
Posts: 8,432
And1: 1,409
Joined: Jan 23, 2005
Location: location, location
     

Re: A bad CJ McCollum for Tobias Harris trade 

Post#3 » by Village Idiot » Sun Sep 12, 2021 8:43 pm

I see no compelling reason to "shake things up" like this. Philly needs a guy with CJ's game (elite p+r roll ball-handler, spot up shooter and shot creator) a lot more than Portland needs Harris, especially now that Portland has Nance Jr.

I also have RoCo as being significantly worth more than Curry and I imagine Olshey sees things the same way since he let Curry walk and traded two picks for Roco. Portland would also prefer "Covington’s spacing and team defense " to Curry's game. We already have a 3 point gunner who plays crappy D in Anfernee Simons BTW
When will we just change the name of 25 of the 30 teams to the Washington Generals?

Dan G.
Yenrallik1111
Rookie
Posts: 1,083
And1: 184
Joined: Nov 14, 2020

Re: A bad CJ McCollum for Tobias Harris trade 

Post#4 » by Yenrallik1111 » Sun Sep 12, 2021 8:49 pm

interesting idea. feel like tobias really needs a new home. too simple of an idea as a 2 team deal
Godaddycurse
Head Coach
Posts: 6,287
And1: 3,163
Joined: Nov 13, 2019
 

Re: A bad CJ McCollum for Tobias Harris trade 

Post#5 » by Godaddycurse » Sun Sep 12, 2021 8:54 pm

Cj for harris makes sense but roco for curry doesnt (for portland)
User avatar
zimpy27
Forum Mod
Forum Mod
Posts: 21,727
And1: 21,978
Joined: Jul 13, 2014

Re: A bad CJ McCollum for Tobias Harris trade 

Post#6 » by zimpy27 » Sun Sep 12, 2021 9:04 pm

I think Portland is owed more and I don't like Lillard, Simons and Curry in a backcourt rotation.
Could you move out Simons for Thybulle in this deal? I think that patches the value gap.

Sixers send: Tobias Harris, Seth Curry, Matisse Thybulle
Blazers send: CJ McCollum, Robert Covington, Anfernee Simons


Lillard, Thybulle, Powell, Harris, Nurkic -- Curry, Snell, DJJ, Nance, Zeller

CJ, Green, Covington, Simmons, Embiid -- Maxey, Simons, Korkmaz, Reed, Drummond
"Let's play some basketball!" - Fergie
JRoy
Analyst
Posts: 3,663
And1: 2,444
Joined: Feb 27, 2019
 

Re: A bad CJ McCollum for Tobias Harris trade 

Post#7 » by JRoy » Sun Sep 12, 2021 9:13 pm

No thank you from POR.

This is the same argument PHI and POR fans have been having forever.

YSBS has a foot out the door in PHI and if there is an upcoming POR-PHI deal it won’t be for Tobias Harris.
Edrees wrote:
JRoy wrote:Monta Ellis have it all


I was hoping and expecting this to be one of the first replies. You did not disappoint. Jroy have it all.
Brandon-Clyde
RealGM
Posts: 20,481
And1: 4,201
Joined: May 29, 2008
     

Re: A bad CJ McCollum for Tobias Harris trade 

Post#8 » by Brandon-Clyde » Sun Sep 12, 2021 9:34 pm

In a straight up CJ McCollum for Tobias Harris matchup I would want added compensation for taking on Harris's extra salary ($5million more next season). I would want to send CJ Elleby to close the gap on salary and expect at least a lottery protected first in exchange. Furthermore I would not do the Roco for Seth exchange as I believe Anfernee Simons could fill the same role as Seth for Portland at a cheaper cost and would rather have the added depth of a Roco, Harris and Nance forward rotation since a Dame and Powell guard rotation would leave few minutes for Seth
There are no constraints on the human mind, no walls around the human spirit, no barriers to our progress except those we ourselves erect." -- Ronald Reagan
PhillyNj
Rookie
Posts: 1,006
And1: 261
Joined: Jul 21, 2010

Re: A bad CJ McCollum for Tobias Harris trade 

Post#9 » by PhillyNj » Sun Sep 12, 2021 10:39 pm

Brandon-Clyde wrote:In a straight up CJ McCollum for Tobias Harris matchup I would want added compensation for taking on Harris's extra salary ($5million more next season). I would want to send CJ Elleby to close the gap on salary and expect at least a lottery protected first in exchange. Furthermore I would not do the Roco for Seth exchange as I believe Anfernee Simons could fill the same role as Seth for Portland at a cheaper cost and would rather have the added depth of a Roco, Harris and Nance forward rotation since a Dame and Powell guard rotation would leave few minutes for Seth

On a straight up trade McCollum for Tobias I would want 2 Frp’s Tobias is the better player and almost a year younger.
Brandon-Clyde
RealGM
Posts: 20,481
And1: 4,201
Joined: May 29, 2008
     

Re: A bad CJ McCollum for Tobias Harris trade 

Post#10 » by Brandon-Clyde » Sun Sep 12, 2021 10:48 pm

PhillyNj wrote:
Brandon-Clyde wrote:In a straight up CJ McCollum for Tobias Harris matchup I would want added compensation for taking on Harris's extra salary ($5million more next season). I would want to send CJ Elleby to close the gap on salary and expect at least a lottery protected first in exchange. Furthermore I would not do the Roco for Seth exchange as I believe Anfernee Simons could fill the same role as Seth for Portland at a cheaper cost and would rather have the added depth of a Roco, Harris and Nance forward rotation since a Dame and Powell guard rotation would leave few minutes for Seth

On a straight up trade McCollum for Tobias I would want 2 Frp’s Tobias is the better player and almost a year younger.

Well then no deal because by statistical measure they are pretty equal and CJ has the added skill of being able to create his own shot however Harris costs $5 million more next year and similar in the outlying years.
BTW I am assuming you are serious and not simply violating board policy by making a ridiculous counter offer.
There are no constraints on the human mind, no walls around the human spirit, no barriers to our progress except those we ourselves erect." -- Ronald Reagan
cucad8
Head Coach
Posts: 6,720
And1: 786
Joined: May 27, 2007

Re: A bad CJ McCollum for Tobias Harris trade 

Post#11 » by cucad8 » Sun Sep 12, 2021 10:52 pm

PhillyNj wrote:
Brandon-Clyde wrote:In a straight up CJ McCollum for Tobias Harris matchup I would want added compensation for taking on Harris's extra salary ($5million more next season). I would want to send CJ Elleby to close the gap on salary and expect at least a lottery protected first in exchange. Furthermore I would not do the Roco for Seth exchange as I believe Anfernee Simons could fill the same role as Seth for Portland at a cheaper cost and would rather have the added depth of a Roco, Harris and Nance forward rotation since a Dame and Powell guard rotation would leave few minutes for Seth

On a straight up trade McCollum for Tobias I would want 2 Frp’s Tobias is the better player and almost a year younger.

In no world is Tobias 2 FRPs better than CJ. That's just absurd.
User avatar
Texas Chuck
Senior Mod - Mavericks and NBA TnT Forum
Senior Mod - Mavericks and NBA TnT Forum
Posts: 69,006
And1: 65,134
Joined: May 19, 2012
Location: Purgatory
   

Re: A bad CJ McCollum for Tobias Harris trade 

Post#12 » by Texas Chuck » Sun Sep 12, 2021 11:26 pm

I'm staying out of the CJ/Tobias date as I've made my feelings known enough on that, but I have Seth Curry => RoCo at this point.
bondom34 wrote:This is stupid and you know this is stupid.
Brandon-Clyde
RealGM
Posts: 20,481
And1: 4,201
Joined: May 29, 2008
     

Re: A bad CJ McCollum for Tobias Harris trade 

Post#13 » by Brandon-Clyde » Sun Sep 12, 2021 11:35 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:I'm staying out of the CJ/Tobias date as I've made my feelings known enough on that, but I have Seth Curry => RoCo at this point.

You can argue that they are equal value but Portland would be fine playing Simons 15-18mpg as a 3 point shooter off of the bench and instead keep Roco for needed depth at forward so Roco is more valuable to Portland than Seth would be.
There are no constraints on the human mind, no walls around the human spirit, no barriers to our progress except those we ourselves erect." -- Ronald Reagan
User avatar
babyjax13
RealGM
Posts: 22,246
And1: 8,509
Joined: Jul 02, 2006
Location: Tuscaloosa Alabama
Contact:
     

Re: A bad CJ McCollum for Tobias Harris trade 

Post#14 » by babyjax13 » Sun Sep 12, 2021 11:59 pm

As long as Ben Simmons is demanding a trade, CJ for Harris is not happening - Portland is going to be looking to add Simmons instead. I also agree that Tobias is the better player at a more important position.
Image

JazzMatt13 wrote:just because I think aliens probably have to do with JFK, doesn't mean my theory that Jazz will never get Wiggins, isn't true.

JColl
GutUNC
Analyst
Posts: 3,051
And1: 1,442
Joined: Apr 10, 2001
         

Re: A bad CJ McCollum for Tobias Harris trade 

Post#15 » by GutUNC » Mon Sep 13, 2021 12:33 am

babyjax13 wrote:As long as Ben Simmons is demanding a trade, CJ for Harris is not happening - Portland is going to be looking to add Simmons instead. I also agree that Tobias is the better player at a more important position.


On a related note, I'm not getting any presents for my kids for Christmas this year - I'll be looking to see if Santa comes through instead.
GDTBATH
User avatar
babyjax13
RealGM
Posts: 22,246
And1: 8,509
Joined: Jul 02, 2006
Location: Tuscaloosa Alabama
Contact:
     

Re: A bad CJ McCollum for Tobias Harris trade 

Post#16 » by babyjax13 » Mon Sep 13, 2021 12:34 am

GutUNC wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:As long as Ben Simmons is demanding a trade, CJ for Harris is not happening - Portland is going to be looking to add Simmons instead. I also agree that Tobias is the better player at a more important position.


On a related note, I'm not getting any presents for my kids for Christmas this year - I'll be looking to see if Santa comes through instead.


I mean, when the Simmons situation resolves then this could be revisited, but there is zero reason for Portland to pull the trigger until it's clear that CJ for Simmons isn't the best offer.
Image

JazzMatt13 wrote:just because I think aliens probably have to do with JFK, doesn't mean my theory that Jazz will never get Wiggins, isn't true.

JColl
kuclas
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,540
And1: 2,534
Joined: Nov 08, 2016
     

Re: A bad CJ McCollum for Tobias Harris trade 

Post#17 » by kuclas » Mon Sep 13, 2021 12:47 am

The “no” from Portland fan for
Tobias Harris vs CJ trade basically shows how much more Ben Simmons is worth.

What Ben Simmons value is. No one knows at this point. Morey has set a price. No one has met his price.

Especially these three way deals some fans post like some Bagley/hield/Barnes

Trade for Siakam/FVV

With Simmons sending Simmons/Curry out

Than I ask fans if you cut Simmons/Curry out

Would you trade FVV/Siakam for Barnes/hield/Bagley

The straight answer is no from raptors fans.
User avatar
babyjax13
RealGM
Posts: 22,246
And1: 8,509
Joined: Jul 02, 2006
Location: Tuscaloosa Alabama
Contact:
     

Re: A bad CJ McCollum for Tobias Harris trade 

Post#18 » by babyjax13 » Mon Sep 13, 2021 1:04 am

kuclas wrote:The “no” from Portland fan for
Tobias Harris vs CJ trade basically shows how much more Ben Simmons is worth.

What Ben Simmons value is. No one knows at this point. Morey has set a price. No one has met his price.

Especially these three way deals some fans post like some Bagley/hield/Barnes

Trade for Siakam/FVV

With Simmons sending Simmons/Curry out

Than I ask fans if you cut Simmons/Curry out

Would you trade FVV/Siakam for Barnes/hield/Bagley

The straight answer is no from raptors fans.


I'm struggling to understand what you are saying here. I see:

1. Simmons is more valuable than Harris, which, fair enough, except Simmons is currently involved in an ugly labor dispute which teams know Philly really can't play chicken with. So it's not a question of whether Simmons is 'more valuable' as a player, but whether he can fetch significantly more as a trade asset. That's obviously not something we *can* know, but I think if it were true Morey would have traded him already. Like you said, he set a price that no one is matching - but he does have to move on unless he wants a sulking player mailing it in and a fanbase that will just make it uglier than it already is.

2. 'Some fans post like some Bagley/Hield/Barnes ...' I assume you mean that this is a common sort of offer for Simmons on this board, and it has not been.

3. 'So I ask if you cut Simmons/Curry out, would you trade FVV/Siakam for that same package:' well, here is the rub, FVV + Siakam is a much more valuable package than Simmons + Curry. That's an all-star and a near all-star caliber player, both locked up on reasonable deals for their production (FVV being a bargain). Simmons might individually be a better player than either (I'd rather have Siakam, personally), but that gap certainly is not the same as the gap between Curry and either of FVV/Siakam. But then, people offering a random set of players from their team is not something that is generally happening, so it is a false equivalence...and...

4. the people that are offering a set of players like that, are typically also including several picks and imagining some kind of three way deal that makes sense for all three team.

The most realistic thing we can say about Simmons' trade value, is that the rumors we had during the year in terms of what Morey was seeking are absurdly out of step with what teams were willing to offer. Maybe that has not changed and Philly is still waiting for a godfather offer, but that doesn't mean that Portland should accept Harris for CJ when eventually Morey is going to have to make a decision, and one of the better options that seems to be available is a CJ + ??? offer.
Image

JazzMatt13 wrote:just because I think aliens probably have to do with JFK, doesn't mean my theory that Jazz will never get Wiggins, isn't true.

JColl
OGSactownballer
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,454
And1: 558
Joined: Oct 02, 2005

Re: A bad CJ McCollum for Tobias Harris trade 

Post#19 » by OGSactownballer » Mon Sep 13, 2021 1:10 am

Been saying since two months ago that a straight up CJ for Harris is about as perfect a swap that there is and the only trade that makes sense for these teams (the other situation nonwithstanding as that is not the discussion on this thread).

It makes sense that value is off because of the greater money with Harris (@20 million for the entire deal) and that needs some padding as I believe that CJ also represents somewhat better player value because of positional need.

It s more than two seconds and considering assumed draft position I would say that a very protected first (top 25/top20/top 15/two seconds) would likely balance it out and be able to happen with Philly’s ‘25 owed. This also makes moving Simmons much easier since CJ is fully capable of being the primary ball handler.

Picking up Nance BTW is not a reason to not do this. Let’s be honest. Nance is a 6/7/8 guy on a contender and only started on crap teams. Harris is a borderline all star that is overpaid but fully capable of filling that perfect spot in that POR lineup as the starting PF moving RoCo to the SF where he is most effective on both ends of the floor.
jbk1234
Forum Mod - Cavs
Forum Mod - Cavs
Posts: 43,883
And1: 25,010
Joined: Dec 22, 2010
   

Re: A bad CJ McCollum for Tobias Harris trade 

Post#20 » by jbk1234 » Mon Sep 13, 2021 1:14 am

I suspect, but don't know, that the chances of CJ for T. Harris, or even Simmons, went down when the Blazers traded DJJ and a first for Nance. The Blazers are out of first round picks to trade. Harris can't credibly play SF.

CJ for Harris was a trade idea that made sense for both teams until the relationship between the Sixers and Simmons deteriorated. Now the Blazers are going to want Simmons for CJ and the Sixers are going to want Dame for Simmons.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.

Return to Trades and Transactions