Cavs/Rockets

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Bentley1225
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Cavs/Rockets 

Post#1 » by Bentley1225 » Tue Sep 14, 2021 1:10 pm

Ill offer this idea based on
-Cavs presumably want to move on from Love and are apprehensive about giving Sexton big money/max
-Rockets want a young starting PG to pair with Green to build around

To Cleveland
-John Wall (2 years, $91.7 million) - assuming he opts in for 2022-23
-Eddie House Jr. (1 year, $3.9 million)
-Khri Thomas (1 year, $1.7 million)
-2023 Milwaukee 1st round pick
-2026 Brooklyn 1st round pick

To Houston
-Colin Sexton (1 year, $6.4 million plus Q.O.)
-Kevin Love (2 years, $60.2 million) - assuming he opts in for 2022-23
-Cedi Osman (2 years, $15.5 million plus T.O.)


Why?
-The Cavs decide they dont want to pay Sexton and align Garland to take over from Wall as starting PG once Wall is off the books as Garland still has 2 years left on rookie deal. Based on the further money Cavs take on and dealing Sexton, they get back 2 1st round picks.

Wall/Rubio/FA?
Garland/Windler/Thomas
Okoro/House/FA?
Markannen/Wade/Stevens
Allen/Mobley/Kabengele

-The Rockets acquire a young and controllable starting PG as they move on from Wall and acquire Love who can get an opportunity to play meaningful minutes in front court and Osman replaces House on the wing.

Sexton/Porter/Augustine
Gordon/Nwaba/Christopher
Green/Tate/Osman
Love/Martin/Garuba
Wood/Theis/Sengun
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Re: Cavs/Rockets 

Post#2 » by jbk1234 » Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:01 pm

This is absurdly bad for the Cavs. It's not fixable either. We're not taking back Wall for anything short of Green and the Rockets shouldn't do that.

The Cavs can see the light at the end of the tunnel with Love, but I don't see Wall giving back any money.

Garland is already a better starting PG than Wall.

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It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
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Re: Cavs/Rockets 

Post#3 » by HartfordWhalers » Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:03 pm

Including Sexton in a Wall-Love swap doesn't make sense to me. Now, both sides will probably hate what would make a Wall-Love swap possible as their negative value guy isn't as bad as the other negative value guy....
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Re: Cavs/Rockets 

Post#4 » by jbk1234 » Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:04 pm

HartfordWhalers wrote:Including Sexton in a Wall-Love swap doesn't make sense to me. Now, both sides will probably hate what would make a Wall-Love swap possible as their negative value guy isn't as bad as the other negative value guy....
Well, objectively, one of them is owed $40M more than the other over.

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It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
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Re: Cavs/Rockets 

Post#5 » by HartfordWhalers » Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:12 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
HartfordWhalers wrote:Including Sexton in a Wall-Love swap doesn't make sense to me. Now, both sides will probably hate what would make a Wall-Love swap possible as their negative value guy isn't as bad as the other negative value guy....
Well, objectively, one of them is owed $40M more than the other over.

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That looks exaggerated by almost a third.
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Re: Cavs/Rockets 

Post#6 » by HartfordWhalers » Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:17 pm

Okay, ran the numbers. I see a $31,476,514 difference, so exaggerated by 8.5m or 27%.

I also think it is likely Wall has more left than Love; which either is gained on the court or hopefully achieved via buyout; although I would agree it isn't 31.4m more. Now if you add in Cedi, you have 15.5m and the contract difference is just 16m over 2 years or 8m a year ; which suddenly looks ballpark of a deal or close enough to debate where to go...
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Re: Cavs/Rockets 

Post#7 » by MoneyTalks41890 » Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:18 pm

HartfordWhalers wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
HartfordWhalers wrote:Including Sexton in a Wall-Love swap doesn't make sense to me. Now, both sides will probably hate what would make a Wall-Love swap possible as their negative value guy isn't as bad as the other negative value guy....
Well, objectively, one of them is owed $40M more than the other over.

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That looks exaggerated by almost a third.


Wall is also objectively more playable and more likely to take a buyout as well.
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Re: Cavs/Rockets 

Post#8 » by tidho » Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:20 pm

this is really horrid for CLE

with the selection of Mobley (their highest caliber prospect) CLE can't reasonably expect to compete to win a playoff series for about two years. any deal they make now needs to make them better then, of they're just undermining themselves.

i don't think its completely out of the question for CLE to eat Wall's money for two years, but the rest of that has to at least be routed to another team in exchange for a longer term piece that would actually benefit them in two years or they're just wildly better off keeping Sexton.

The whole Wall -4- Love/Cedi is interesting, although it might be better for both teams as Love/Rubio. HOU really doesn't lose much on the court at that point.
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Re: Cavs/Rockets 

Post#9 » by Ballerhogger » Tue Sep 14, 2021 3:11 pm

From tax stand point i dont see rockets doing this. Wall for love is what cleveland should shoot for. Seems like DOA
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Re: Cavs/Rockets 

Post#10 » by toooskies » Tue Sep 14, 2021 3:58 pm

Do the Cavs even stay under the tax here?

This actually looks like two trades though, Love+Osman for Wall (bad salary for different bad salary) and Sexton for two distant 1sts and salary filler (current value for future value). They're both reasonable value both ways in a vacuum, but Cleveland says no to the first because of tax implications and already having three PGs on the roster (four if you count Sexton). They say no to the second because they're trying to enter a competitive level of basketball soon, they aren't punting their most talented scorer for draft picks two and five years in the future.

And while this deal isn't good for Cleveland, I don't particularly like this deal for Houston either. Sexton isn't really a PG, he's a SG in a PG's body but has had to shift to PG when Cleveland's other guys have been hurt. That's why the Cavs went out and got Rubio and Pangos this offseason. Porter isn't a PG either. So Houston has two young selfish guards playing with your shiny #2 pick who plays on-ball a lot himself?

Fixing the pieces of this deal:
- Wall + Milwaukee 2023 1st for Love + Rubio. Wall is a high end backup PG in Cleveland, Rubio and Love (if healthy) start in Houston this year. The Cavs get an expected late 1st for significantly more 22-23 salary, maybe it's top 20 protected where it turns into a 2nd or two. But the Cavs can handle the 22-23 salary if Sexton's salary doesn't blow up in 22-23, so:
- Sexton for Houston 2022 1st, Brooklyn 2026 1st + filler. If the Cavs are punting on winning and Sexton, they're only doing it for a year, and they want a good chance of value out of it. (Maybe Christopher or Garuba in the filler instead of the Brooklyn pick.) Houston takes their chance on Sexton becoming an all-star while leaving the possibility open that he fits best as a super sixth man.
- Or alternately, Sexton/Osman for Gordon/HOU 2022 1st. Houston commits to Sexton as a starter while moving Gordon to a team that needs a competent starting wing.

Yeah, overall this is three picks (or two picks and a prospect) going out from Houston and less salary savings in 2021 than the OP's deal, but the Cavs are giving up a lot more potential and the Milwaukee/Brooklyn picks are low-value.
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Re: Cavs/Rockets 

Post#11 » by Bentley1225 » Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:32 pm

toooskies wrote:Do the Cavs even stay under the tax here?

This actually looks like two trades though, Love+Osman for Wall (bad salary for different bad salary) and Sexton for two distant 1sts and salary filler (current value for future value). They're both reasonable value both ways in a vacuum, but Cleveland says no to the first because of tax implications and already having three PGs on the roster (four if you count Sexton). They say no to the second because they're trying to enter a competitive level of basketball soon, they aren't punting their most talented scorer for draft picks two and five years in the future.

And while this deal isn't good for Cleveland, I don't particularly like this deal for Houston either. Sexton isn't really a PG, he's a SG in a PG's body but has had to shift to PG when Cleveland's other guys have been hurt. That's why the Cavs went out and got Rubio and Pangos this offseason. Porter isn't a PG either. So Houston has two young selfish guards playing with your shiny #2 pick who plays on-ball a lot himself?

Fixing the pieces of this deal:
- Wall + Milwaukee 2023 1st for Love + Rubio. Wall is a high end backup PG in Cleveland, Rubio and Love (if healthy) start in Houston this year. The Cavs get an expected late 1st for significantly more 22-23 salary, maybe it's top 20 protected where it turns into a 2nd or two. But the Cavs can handle the 22-23 salary if Sexton's salary doesn't blow up in 22-23, so:
- Sexton for Houston 2022 1st, Brooklyn 2026 1st + filler. If the Cavs are punting on winning and Sexton, they're only doing it for a year, and they want a good chance of value out of it. (Maybe Christopher or Garuba in the filler instead of the Brooklyn pick.) Houston takes their chance on Sexton becoming an all-star while leaving the possibility open that he fits best as a super sixth man.
- Or alternately, Sexton/Osman for Gordon/HOU 2022 1st. Houston commits to Sexton as a starter while moving Gordon to a team that needs a competent starting wing.

Yeah, overall this is three picks (or two picks and a prospect) going out from Houston and less salary savings in 2021 than the OP's deal, but the Cavs are giving up a lot more potential and the Milwaukee/Brooklyn picks are low-value.


There are 3 parts

Wall for Love
-Both veteran guys with 2 years left. Is Wall worth $30 million more guaranteed over next 2 years, probably not but thats where part 2 comes in

House for Osman
-Both guys play the wing and Osman is owed $11.5 million more which bridges that value gap between Wall and Love.

Sexton for 2023 and 2026 1sts
-Sexton is on the last year of his rookie deal. Is this light for him?. Probably.

Thomas is throw in for 3 for 3 roster balancing.

I agree the deal favors Rockets and perhaps they dont like Sexton as a long term building block.

I toyed with several options around Wall for Love with other pieces. The one I almost posted instead was Love + Rubio for Wall.
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Re: Cavs/Rockets 

Post#12 » by JJ_PR » Tue Sep 14, 2021 7:43 pm

I don't like this for Cleveland. John Wall is owed $90 million over two years, while Love is owed like $60 million.

Collin Sexton is worth more than two mediocre first round picks.
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Re: Cavs/Rockets 

Post#13 » by toooskies » Tue Sep 14, 2021 8:29 pm

Bentley1225 wrote:
toooskies wrote:Do the Cavs even stay under the tax here?

This actually looks like two trades though, Love+Osman for Wall (bad salary for different bad salary) and Sexton for two distant 1sts and salary filler (current value for future value). They're both reasonable value both ways in a vacuum, but Cleveland says no to the first because of tax implications and already having three PGs on the roster (four if you count Sexton). They say no to the second because they're trying to enter a competitive level of basketball soon, they aren't punting their most talented scorer for draft picks two and five years in the future.

And while this deal isn't good for Cleveland, I don't particularly like this deal for Houston either. Sexton isn't really a PG, he's a SG in a PG's body but has had to shift to PG when Cleveland's other guys have been hurt. That's why the Cavs went out and got Rubio and Pangos this offseason. Porter isn't a PG either. So Houston has two young selfish guards playing with your shiny #2 pick who plays on-ball a lot himself?

Fixing the pieces of this deal:
- Wall + Milwaukee 2023 1st for Love + Rubio. Wall is a high end backup PG in Cleveland, Rubio and Love (if healthy) start in Houston this year. The Cavs get an expected late 1st for significantly more 22-23 salary, maybe it's top 20 protected where it turns into a 2nd or two. But the Cavs can handle the 22-23 salary if Sexton's salary doesn't blow up in 22-23, so:
- Sexton for Houston 2022 1st, Brooklyn 2026 1st + filler. If the Cavs are punting on winning and Sexton, they're only doing it for a year, and they want a good chance of value out of it. (Maybe Christopher or Garuba in the filler instead of the Brooklyn pick.) Houston takes their chance on Sexton becoming an all-star while leaving the possibility open that he fits best as a super sixth man.
- Or alternately, Sexton/Osman for Gordon/HOU 2022 1st. Houston commits to Sexton as a starter while moving Gordon to a team that needs a competent starting wing.

Yeah, overall this is three picks (or two picks and a prospect) going out from Houston and less salary savings in 2021 than the OP's deal, but the Cavs are giving up a lot more potential and the Milwaukee/Brooklyn picks are low-value.


There are 3 parts

Wall for Love
-Both veteran guys with 2 years left. Is Wall worth $30 million more guaranteed over next 2 years, probably not but thats where part 2 comes in

House for Osman
-Both guys play the wing and Osman is owed $11.5 million more which bridges that value gap between Wall and Love.

Sexton for 2023 and 2026 1sts
-Sexton is on the last year of his rookie deal. Is this light for him?. Probably.

Thomas is throw in for 3 for 3 roster balancing.

I agree the deal favors Rockets and perhaps they dont like Sexton as a long term building block.

I toyed with several options around Wall for Love with other pieces. The one I almost posted instead was Love + Rubio for Wall.

Cleveland doesn't get significantly ahead in any of the parts of the deal, though. Wall for Love in isolation-- Cleveland would want a 1st back there. If House for Osman was a trade, Cleveland might attach a 2nd to save some future cash, but they probably say no and hope Osman just had an off-year last year. And Sexton for two distant low-value 1sts is a no-go for the Cleveland GM, he needs to win soon or he'll be fired.
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Re: Cavs/Rockets 

Post#14 » by ecuhus1981 » Today 2:24 am

I've been toying with this idea as well over the last 24 hours. I think it would work best as a 3-way merry-go-round with the Clippers:

https://fanspo.com/nba/s/general/trades/YREIHtgSuqxDsQ/better-cle-hou-lac

CLE sends Love/Osman for Wall/House
The Cavaliers double down on their backcourt depth, and add the wing defender they've sought this offseason.
Sexton, Garland, Okoro, Markkanen, Allen
Rubio, Wall, House, Mobley, Kagenbele


HOU sends Wall/House for Morris/Kennard
The Rockets trim $20mil from their cap number while returning solid rotational players to flip later.
Porter, Green, Morris, Wood, Theis
Kennard, Gordon, Nwaba, Garuba, Seng√ľn


LAC sends Morris/Kennard for Love/Osman
The Clippers shed longterm payroll and add frontcourt size, relieving the guard glut.
Jackson, Mann, George, Batum, Ibaka
Bledsoe, Johnson, Osman, Love, Zubac
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Re: Cavs/Rockets 

Post#15 » by patman66 » Today 11:52 am

Don't see why the cavs want to trade wall for love and Sexton. The bkn pick is enticing but 5 seasons away.

Maybe something with simmons + nurkic going to Houston, Dame to Philly , Wall + Wood plus a boatload from both to Portland,

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