Offseason Grades - San Antonio Spurs

Moderators: loserX, Trader_Joe, Mamba4Goat, Andre Roberstan, BullyKing, Texas Chuck, pacers33granger, HartfordWhalers

User avatar
bondom34
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 66,054
And1: 49,793
Joined: Mar 01, 2013

Offseason Grades - San Antonio Spurs 

Post#1 » by bondom34 » Tue Sep 14, 2021 4:34 pm

Finishing off this division early today, think we have one Pacific team left then the rest but before I forget to post it...the Spurs.

K_Chile22's offseason grade:

San Antonio Spurs transactions

Front office
none.

Draft
Drafted Joshua Primo at pick #12.
Drafted Joe Wieskamp at pick #41.

Trades
Trades rights to Nikola Milutinov and capspace for Chandler Hutchinson and 2022 2nd rounder in 5-team deal.
Traded future 2nd and capspace to Indiana for Doug McDermott S&T (3/$42M), future 2nd and future 2nd swap rights.
Traded DeMar DeRozan S&T to Chicago for Thad Young, Al-Farouq Aminu, 2025 1st rounder and two future 2nds.

Free agency
Acquired Doug McDermott in S&T, as above.
Signed Bryn Forbes, 2/$5M.
Signed Zach Collins, 3/$22M (2nd year $3.7M guaranteed, 3rd year unguaranteed).
Declined team option on DaQuan Jeffries.
Offseason Thoughts
I don't care what 'leaks' said after the fact, Primo was a big reach. Don't love that pick at all.
Overpaid McDermott... I wasn't even sure he'd even get the full MLE unless it was from a bad team. Did well to squeeze a second and a half out of Indy to make it a S&T.
Then overpaid Collins. I know there are non-guarantees but the second year still has a significant chunk of his salary guaranteed. Just don't really think it's likely he exceeds this deal, but very likely he doesn't live up to it.
Forbes signing was a good fringe move though.
DeRozen deal was excellent for them, getting the first and Thad in a S&T was great for them.

Grade
C. DeRozen S&T kept it neutral when I didn't like almost everything else.
2022 Prediction
Bottom four in the West
Offseason in gif form
Image

Mamba4goat's offseason grade:

San Antonio Spurs transactions

Front office
none.

Draft
Drafted Joshua Primo at pick #12.
Drafted Joe Wieskamp at pick #41.

Trades
Trades rights to Nikola Milutinov and capspace for Chandler Hutchinson and 2022 2nd rounder in 5-team deal.
Traded future 2nd and capspace to Indiana for Doug McDermott S&T (3/$42M), future 2nd and future 2nd swap rights.
Traded DeMar DeRozan S&T to Chicago for Thad Young, Al-Farouq Aminu, 2025 1st rounder and two future 2nds.

Free agency
Acquired Doug McDermott in S&T, as above.
Signed Bryn Forbes, 2/$5M.
Signed Zach Collins, 3/$22M (2nd year $3.7M guaranteed, 3rd year unguaranteed).
Declined team option on DaQuan Jeffries.
Offseason Thoughts
Josh Primo felt like a reach but showed that he could be worth it in Summer League. Wieskamp is a good second round flyer as a top-level shooter. While at face value it's a little rich, I like the Zach Collins deal (especially with how little of the 2nd and 3rd years are guaranteed). I'm a little confused by the direction of this team though. They seem like they're set on being a fringe playoff team. Thad Young and Doug McDermott were good acquisitions and could lend themselves as very good trade assets should the Spurs struggle during the season and finally pull the plug.

Grade
C-
They reached in the draft and committed to the middle ground. Like a few other teams a Ben Simmons trade could really change a lot of things for them though.
2022 Prediction
8-12 Could see them as a playoff team because you know, never doubt the Spurs, but could also see them missing the play-in games.
Offseason in gif form
Image

bondom34's offseason grade:

San Antonio Spurs transactions

Front office
none.

Draft
Drafted Joshua Primo at pick #12.
Drafted Joe Wieskamp at pick #41.

Trades
Trades rights to Nikola Milutinov and capspace for Chandler Hutchinson and 2022 2nd rounder in 5-team deal.
Traded future 2nd and capspace to Indiana for Doug McDermott S&T (3/$42M), future 2nd and future 2nd swap rights.
Traded DeMar DeRozan S&T to Chicago for Thad Young, Al-Farouq Aminu, 2025 1st rounder and two future 2nds.

Free agency
Acquired Doug McDermott in S&T, as above.
Signed Bryn Forbes, 2/$5M.
Signed Zach Collins, 3/$22M (2nd year $3.7M guaranteed, 3rd year unguaranteed).
Declined team option on DaQuan Jeffries.
Waived Chandler Hutchinson

Offseason Thoughts
If this were most franchises I would have far less faith in them but most of this offseason felt a bit directionless, though there wasn't anything truly egregious to me in the end.

The draft was weird, Primo was a guy who seemed a fine pre-draft prospect if a team was interested in him possibly. The problem is that taking him at 12 basically entirely removes the idea of a pre-draft because any surplus value you'd get is nullified by the larger salary slot and using a high pick. Pre-drafting is supposed to be to steal a guy later in the draft when he'd be gone sooner in a later year, which isn't what happened here. Just an odd one.

On to free agency I didn't really have an issue with McDermott's contract in a vacuum (ie to a team that needed him or a contender), the issue is that the Spurs aren't that and don't need vets like this. Just a weird one but again I'm in the minority who didn't even think the contract was that bad, just a weird fit (and looking back it's still got a very minimal chance of surplus value). The Collins deal ended up being far less than reported so still isn't awful as much as was first reported but I don't see it returning any real value at this point either. These felt like deals that were a bit unnecessary and to some extent overpays with questionable fits.

And after all this, they still salvaged it to some extent because I have no clue how they got that return for a free agent. The Derozan trade was a fantastic deal for them.

Grade
C- and this is pretty much all the Derozan trade or it would be worse
2022 Prediction
11-14th in the West, not bottom 2 but wouldn't count on them to make the play in either
Offseason in gif form
Image
MyUniBroDavis wrote: he was like YALL PEOPLE WHO DOUBT ME WILL SEE YALLS STATS ARE WRONG I HAVE THE BIG BRAIN PLAYS MUCHO NASTY BIG BRAIN BIG CHUNGUS BRAIN YOU BOYS ON UR BBALL REFERENCE NO UNDERSTANDO
User avatar
Texas Chuck
Senior Mod - Mavericks and NBA TnT Forum
Senior Mod - Mavericks and NBA TnT Forum
Posts: 69,027
And1: 65,165
Joined: May 19, 2012
Location: Purgatory
   

Re: Offseason Grades - San Antonio Spurs 

Post#2 » by Texas Chuck » Tue Sep 14, 2021 4:53 pm

Draft -- I just don't know. I know the mock guys hated it but I don't really care what the mock guys think generally. Willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.

DD deal is a haul. Would really like to have seen Thad flipped as part of that or afterwards. Still don't understand his place on the roster and still strongly disagree they are a playoff team or that Thad Young's value is going to go up from here and it could easily go down. But even if with that, they did really well.

I like Dougie Buckets. I think he's a valuable bench shooter who could spot start for you at times and not kill you. He's seen as just a shooter, but he offers a bit more than that. Great off the ball, very underrated cutter who takes advantage of the threat of his shooting in really smart ways and his size prevents him from just being a constant target defensively.

But on that number for this team I just don't really get it.

I like Zach Collins. Loved him coming into the draft and wanted Dallas to take him and not Dennis Smith. But even if we set aside the injuries, and we should not set aside the injuries at all, this idea of him as the modern big man who protects the rim, is mobile enough to defend the PNR, and who can be a spacer and a lob threat--none of that was realized. We don't even know if he's an NBA rotation player if he's healthy and we have no idea if he will be healthy. Don't mind the gamble but I think they bid against themselves here.

Another team who could have had a bunch of cap space to do something big who the market dropped out on. But I'd rather have seen them just carry over their space instead of doing this. But what I'd really like to see is them have sold everything they could. Feels like Dallas the last 5 years of Dirk where Dallas didn't want to kick him to the curb(a good decision) but also tried to cater to his desire to be competitive instead of building an asset base(a poor decision). Spurs will let Pop choose his exit but they are also trying to give him vet teams that can reasonably compete on a nightly basis. Good way to just win 35-40 game every year and end up with Josh Primo's and mediocre free agents.

They found so many really good players late in the draft that I think they are buying too heavily into that instead of remembering what made them truly great was that guy they picked 1st overall.

Grade C Derozan deal salvages a D otherwise.
bondom34 wrote:This is stupid and you know this is stupid.
Chinook
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,927
And1: 2,612
Joined: Jan 12, 2015
       

Re: Offseason Grades - San Antonio Spurs 

Post#3 » by Chinook » Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:23 am

Grade: C at first viewing

The draft is a push for me as it almost always is. I don't scout college players, especially before I know they're going to be on the team. For an 18-year-old, Primo looked very interesting in the summer league. I expect him to be great in the SL next summer, and he'll be younger than a number of the top picks he'll be playing against. Wieskamp didn't really show a lot, but getting him to agree to a two-way deal means SA didn't have to commit too much to him either.

On the aggregate, I'm meh on the signings.
- Forbes makes sense given that the Spurs without DMDR, Gay, Mills and Aldridge are going to have to find points, and Bryn has shown he can provide them. That he's only a one-year deal means they aren't married to him if someone like Walker steps up offensively. As a mid-sized expiring, he also has trade utility and even some value to the right team.

-I liked the idea of McDermott. The Spurs clearly want to add shooting around their young guards, and they did so with Doug. Pop badly needs to get back to using motion to get shooters looks, and McD can do a lot of what Belinelli did for the team. That said, they committed a lot to him, so he better work out. If he explodes, he'll have value, but that's not a guarantee.

-I really disliked the Collins deal. It's arguable how much sense it makes to take a speculative flier on a big given their roster make up, but even with that in mind, Collins was a weird choice. In order to justify his contract, Zach will not only have to stay healthy but improve substantially. His deal has enough guaranteed to where he's basically going to be on the roster for two years. This is a huge gamble with real downside, but at this point you just have to hope it works out. Even assuming health, Collins is not currently in the rotation. Eubanks is comfortably better than him. Also...

-I actually really liked the Landale signing. That's the kind of flier that makes sense for the Spurs to take. He's an intriguing overseas prospect who had some legit interest in Europe but chose the Spurs to bring him into the league. It's a shame that Collins' deal means Landale isn't even a lock to make the roster. Jock deserves a year to adjust to the NBA game way more than Zach deserves a fifth (or even sixth) year to see if he can hack it.

-Rounding out the signings, I like them getting Bates-Diop back. You can argue that they mismanaged their cap from the Collins and McDermott signings to the point that KBD and Landale had to take two-year deals rather than Hinkie specials. But Keita is a solid depth player who did what was asked of him. He has a real chance to impact the back end of the roster if in the event of a trade. Outside of that, he's a likely cut. Speaking of likely cuts...

I actually liked the trades, with out exception:
-The DeRozan deal was rightly praised by previous posters. It was a solid trade that gives the Spurs option value both to try to win games this year and make moves for the future. They'll probably end up cutting Aminu barring a trade, but it could've been worse. Young was a great pickup as a stabilizing force for a team lacking veteran presence. It's not hard to imagine him anchoring a very good bench unit. His trade value has been a contentious subject, but he gives the Spurs option value regardless.

-The Hutchison deal was great. I didn't love how early the Spurs cut Chandler in case they needed his contract for a trade, but getting a nice second for Miluntinov's wasted rights was nice salvage. It was a smart move on the Spurs' part to give themselves a legit trade asset without having to move any of their young players.

-McDermott: The trade edition was abysmal. It was a horrible deal that has no value other than "building good will". No, it's not "the going rate for a mid-sized TPE". The Spurs should have just been willing to give Indy cash to satisfy the trade requirements and gotten an actual second-round pick back. Because THAT is what a normal TE-creation trade actually consists of, not a swap of fake seconds and an extremely unlikely distant swap.

In summary, there were good and bad things about how the team handled this off-season. I personally wanted them to be more aggressive in bringing in players around White rather than keeping Murray and using his lack of shooting to justify overpaying shooters. But I didn't agree with the tank approach and am happy the Spurs didn't go in that direction. I think they managed to create an environment to develop their young players while still keeping their options open on trades or future signings.

For all the comparisons to treadmill teams of the past, I think fans of those teams keep missing the point. Teams that going for mediocre to bad to good very quickly didn't just get lucky in the draft. They opportunistically took advantage of situations where their team's underperformance put them in positions to strike at young stars. Dallas didn't trade away their guys and tank to get Luka. Memphis didn't trade away Gasol and Conley to get JJJ and Jah. They ran until the wheels fell off and then made good decisions. It's really weird to think being around .500 is the worst place to be or whatever. If you're trading all your picks and young guys and paying the tax to get there, then it's bad. But there's nothing wrong with the Spurs team full of young guys and tradeable contracts being there.
MoneyTalks41890
RealGM
Posts: 21,388
And1: 11,289
Joined: Oct 13, 2009
 

Re: Offseason Grades - San Antonio Spurs 

Post#4 » by MoneyTalks41890 » Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:39 am

I think more than any other team the Spurs get the benefit of the doubt. I largely agree with all of the above criticisms and really only liked the DD SnT return. But it’s the Spurs. We could all be wrong fast. If we’re not, and this is a bottom of the West team, does Pop retire in season? I think it’s possible.
Bornstellar
Analyst
Posts: 3,256
And1: 7,252
Joined: Mar 05, 2018
 

Re: Offseason Grades - San Antonio Spurs 

Post#5 » by Bornstellar » Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:45 am

Pretty much agree with the sentiment here. Still remains to be seen if Spurs do anything else before the season begins but is looking less likely with each passing day. They preserved cap space for next year which sucks because the FA market looks even worse than this year.

I think the Spurs plan is to just let the young guys run the show and see what we truly have, because we still haven't gotten an honest look at them with so much deference to the vets the last couple years. But I really hope they try to make some kind of moves because the whole off-season and outlook for next season seems pretty "meh" overall
User avatar
KEMBAtheMETEOR
RealGM
Posts: 39,900
And1: 8,944
Joined: Feb 05, 2012
   

Re: Offseason Grades - San Antonio Spurs 

Post#6 » by KEMBAtheMETEOR » Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:57 am

B? More than anything I'm just glad the Spurs let go of attempting to fight for the 8th seed and are in a proper rebuild. I'm big on teams clearly deciding on a direction and not needlessly torpedoing their chances at high draft picks when they clearly can't compete. They should have no problem finishing around 13th in the West and having a legit chance at a top talent in next year's draft.

Getting a 1st by trading away an overpaid DeRozan is a big win. But they gave a lot of that cap space back with that weird McDermott signing. That was just confusing.

The Spurs deserve the benefit of the doubt more than just about any other team in the NBA, so i'm not going to say anything about how the Primo pick was weird and out of left field, reaching on a guard/wing when they were already loaded with guards/wings... but again, I'm not going to say anything about that.
Ballerhogger
RealGM
Posts: 34,156
And1: 10,564
Joined: Jul 06, 2014
       

Re: Offseason Grades - San Antonio Spurs 

Post#7 » by Ballerhogger » Wed Sep 15, 2021 4:51 am

Ill give them B i mean i think they realised its time to do full rebuild they tried to fight for playoffs year after year when they probably shouldnt have. I respect that but its time find their next big star.

Return to Trades and Transactions