Wall blasting off who wants him ?

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Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#121 » by gambitx777 » Wed Sep 15, 2021 6:11 am

I'll say this again. While John walls contract is going to be very hard to move to a contender. To the right team it isn't, a team like OKC can afford to take some minor assets for the chance that wall rehabs value on a chunky one year deal that can be traded next summer. Now again Huston is in the same boat. So holding on to wall isn't terrible but they have no plans to rehab his value. OKC could with not a lot else at PG.

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Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#122 » by JimmyPlopper » Wed Sep 15, 2021 6:34 am

gambitx777 wrote:I'll say this again. While John walls contract is going to be very hard to move to a contender. To the right team it isn't, a team like OKC can afford to take some minor assets for the chance that wall rehabs value on a chunky one year deal that can be traded next summer. Now again Huston is in the same boat. So holding on to wall isn't terrible but they have no plans to rehab his value. OKC could with not a lot else at PG.

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OKC doesnt have the salaries to match in a deal i don't think. It feels likens Wall deal will need to involve three teams.
so i made a deal with myself. this is the year i make my mark.
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Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#123 » by Takingbaconback » Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:50 am

gambitx777 wrote:I'll say this again. While John walls contract is going to be very hard to move to a contender. To the right team it isn't, a team like OKC can afford to take some minor assets for the chance that wall rehabs value on a chunky one year deal that can be traded next summer. Now again Huston is in the same boat. So holding on to wall isn't terrible but they have no plans to rehab his value. OKC could with not a lot else at PG.

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Minor assets for that contract? Even teams that aren't looking to make a jump now need to have a very flexible cap for what they want to do. Going to take major assets, several first round protected picks with favorable progression for team that absorbs his contract.
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Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#124 » by Fencer reregistered » Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:14 am

Scoot McGroot wrote:
Commodor wrote:They'll have to wait a while for trade restrictions to lift but maybe?

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine

HOU Out
Wood
Wall

LAC Out
Bledsoe
Kennard
Ibaka
Morris Sr.

LAC takes on Wall's contract and gets a more dynamic big. May need to add in more value.

HOU can waive Morris & Ibaka and see what they like in Bledsoe & Kennard.

Honestly I do not see how Wall could be moved just spit ballin.


Nah, that’s a pretty good spit ball, there. Even if that’s not the deal, that’s some good out of the box thinking. :dontknow:


Yeah. Wood is the one asset Houston should be happy to give to dump Wall with because, in fact, Wood interferes somewhat with tanking.
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Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#125 » by ThatBoyNick » Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:30 am

I don't see the fit for the Cavs at all. Even if we add Rubio to Houston, and hypothetically say Sexton is traded elsewhere is a separate deal for a wing... They still have Darius Garland who they are keen on developing as their PG of the future, how is this situation any different from the Rockets who are also one of the league's worst teams, who have guards they are trying to develop (KPJ/Green). It's the same situation, a situation both the Rockets and Wall don't want, clearly.

It's hard to see a situation where Wall gets moved, but it will have to be to a team that genuinely wants him as a player, maybe come the deadline a playoff team is underperforming, some players on some sizeable contracts are playing really bad and suddenly a deal makes sense.
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Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#126 » by GTR11 » Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:29 am

vege wrote:Either Houston add a couple lightly protected firsts (which they shouldn't) and take back an useless expire, or they will buy out Wall, there is no other option. No one is touching the player or the contract without a lot of compensation going their way.

Exactly. All this takes beyond laughable. Pot heads gave me a good laughter. There's only 2 ways Houston moving Wall:
• buyout
• attach few picks
We talking about player who couldn't stay healthy past four years on supermax contract. Aaron just signed 4 year 92, Wall will get that in 2 :lol: . He's not even better player.
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Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#127 » by GTR11 » Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:36 am

Big story here is why they went public with it. Ever since this new owner took over they became dumpster fire, sad, just sad.

I mean they told him not come to work!!! Let that sink in.
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Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#128 » by gambitx777 » Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:37 am

JimmyPlopper wrote:
gambitx777 wrote:I'll say this again. While John walls contract is going to be very hard to move to a contender. To the right team it isn't, a team like OKC can afford to take some minor assets for the chance that wall rehabs value on a chunky one year deal that can be traded next summer. Now again Huston is in the same boat. So holding on to wall isn't terrible but they have no plans to rehab his value. OKC could with not a lot else at PG.

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OKC doesnt have the salaries to match in a deal i don't think. It feels likens Wall deal will need to involve three teams.
They actually do. Because they have 33 plus in cap room left. All they have to do is move a random contract and trade favors to Huston in the deal or vise versa. Again the idea is to rehab wall and flip him for another asset down the line. They did it with Horford, another "untradable contract" and so what if they end up buying wall out, so they over pay for a pick or two. They have shown a willingness to do that. Someone do the math on how much money it cost them for this picks they got from Boston for kemba after they bought him out.

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Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#129 » by Devilanche » Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:05 am

gambitx777 wrote:I'll say this again. While John walls contract is going to be very hard to move to a contender. To the right team it isn't, a team like OKC can afford to take some minor assets for the chance that wall rehabs value on a chunky one year deal that can be traded next summer. Now again Huston is in the same boat. So holding on to wall isn't terrible but they have no plans to rehab his value. OKC could with not a lot else at PG.

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What is the hypothetical team that can salary match for walls contract next season ?

SGA , Theo and maybe even ty Jerome is taking up some of the guards minutes and that before counting any of the rookies and dort inside .

Those same minutes that available at OKC should be available at Houston
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Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#130 » by Devilanche » Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:07 am

gambitx777 wrote:
JimmyPlopper wrote:
gambitx777 wrote:I'll say this again. While John walls contract is going to be very hard to move to a contender. To the right team it isn't, a team like OKC can afford to take some minor assets for the chance that wall rehabs value on a chunky one year deal that can be traded next summer. Now again Huston is in the same boat. So holding on to wall isn't terrible but they have no plans to rehab his value. OKC could with not a lot else at PG.

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OKC doesnt have the salaries to match in a deal i don't think. It feels likens Wall deal will need to involve three teams.
They actually do. Because they have 33 plus in cap room left. All they have to do is move a random contract and trade favors to Huston in the deal or vise versa. Again the idea is to rehab wall and flip him for another asset down the line. They did it with Horford, another "untradable contract" and so what if they end up buying wall out, so they over pay for a pick or two. They have shown a willingness to do that. Someone do the math on how much money it cost them for this picks they got from Boston for kemba after they bought him out.

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It wasn’t a lot , we had Horford sunk cost to consider against what kemba cost us . But you are asking us to use capspace for walls contract for this year and next
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Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#131 » by gambitx777 » Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:34 am

Devilanche wrote:
gambitx777 wrote:
JimmyPlopper wrote:
OKC doesnt have the salaries to match in a deal i don't think. It feels likens Wall deal will need to involve three teams.
They actually do. Because they have 33 plus in cap room left. All they have to do is move a random contract and trade favors to Huston in the deal or vise versa. Again the idea is to rehab wall and flip him for another asset down the line. They did it with Horford, another "untradable contract" and so what if they end up buying wall out, so they over pay for a pick or two. They have shown a willingness to do that. Someone do the math on how much money it cost them for this picks they got from Boston for kemba after they bought him out.

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It wasn’t a lot , we had Horford sunk cost to consider against what kemba cost us . But you are asking us to use capspace for walls contract for this year and next
Free agency is over this year. Who's coming to OKC next year? No one of any significance and again depending on how wall plays he very well could be tradable in the summer.

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Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#132 » by Skybox » Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:36 am

GTR11 wrote:Big story here is why they went public with it. Ever since this new owner took over they became dumpster fire, sad, just sad.

I mean they told him not come to work!!! Let that sink in.


Agree...perhaps Wall's ego demanded the sit-down and HOU said "OK, we'll see what's out there" to appease him. I imagine Wall's agent will be doing a lot of the inquiries while HOU FO sits back and roots for him. HOU's timeline permits them to send him home rather than take a beating but if something palatable presents itself - sure, why not? Just like OKC, they'd be wise to be patient, collect assets where they can, try to develop kids, and hope that, when he expires or agrees to a reasonable buyout, the rest of the young squad presents a desirable FA destination. On the other hand, if somebody wants him-great!
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Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#133 » by Scoot McGroot » Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:24 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:
Yenrallik1111 wrote:
Texas Chuck wrote:Wall/House/Worse of 22 BKN/MIA 1st(top 14 protected)

for

Love/Rubio

Rockets then buyout Love who even if he gives no money back will cost them less than Wall.
Cavs use Wall as a backup PG for a year then buy him out next year while pocketing a first round pick for their troubles. And they gamble he's healthy and solid enough where he gives back $7 or $8M which means they bought that late first pretty cheaply.


But yeah its a buyout. But a Cavs swap of problems just makes too much sense since Wall can actually play a role and Rubio's money is right there to match.


this makes no sense. especially with love going the other way. wall on the cavs and love on the rockets?? this doesn't solve contractual issues for either team. both players do not help either team's current positions. add a 3rd team crazy enough to take both with delusional ideas of the duo actually helping.



Not sure what you think either team should expect in a trade. That a team is going to let them off the financial hook for free? That a team is going to give them really good players for their massive negative contracts?

No 3rd team is riding to the rescue mate. This is my problem for your problem sort of thing. Now Whalers version of this is better than mine so I agree this is flawed. But not for the reasons you are suggesting here. These are massive negative contracts. There is no "good" solution to their problems.



Also, said 3rd team would have to send out over $60m in outgoing salaries in order to absorb both Wall and Love in a deal, as there’s no TPE large enough to absorb either player. Even if OKC were to use up their cap space, they’d still have to send out almost $55m for both players (and they don’t have $55m to reasonably send out). Even if OKC were to take on Wall using cap space and sending out the reminder in contracts, another team would have to send out $25m in contracts for Love, etc. There’s all kinds of thing wrong with expecting to find one team to possibly take on both Wall and Love. There’s just not one, even if we hypothetically look throughout the league for every opportunity.
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Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#134 » by jbk1234 » Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:31 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:
K_chile22 wrote:
Read on Twitter
?s=19

Not quite Feigen but still the chronicle, so I trust it. Seems the rockets do not expect anything to happen until the deadline if something does happen. No rush



I don't really understand any of this. Especially if they still want him around the team. Not sure the end game of this? Hoping being around basketball but not getting to play in any actual games gets him jonesing so bad he gives back a lot more money in a buyout for next year?

Confusing update.
It's performative. The Rockets have no intention of attaching the type of value it would take to move him, he has no intention of giving money back (FWIW I have Wall as the least likely player in the NBA to give money back), and they'd both like a divorce. The team is basically inviting the agent to go try to find a trade that makes sense. It's an exercise in futility but it can be helpful terms of the player processing reality.

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It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
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Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#135 » by Xman » Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:35 pm

I think they tried to deal him privately. Clippers were only team close to considering it. Now, Wall and his agent can see how hard it is to get a deal (instead of listening to Houston gm say they cannot deal him). After he sees no deal is out there, maybe he will take a cheaper buyout. I will bet that is what Houston is hoping. Wall's ego has probably not come to accept he is not that hot commodity that he used to be. After seeing noone will deal for him, maybe he becomes more agreeable on a buyout.
If he really wants to play - and play for a winner, that is probably his only hope. For a team to want him, it takes too much salary - Clippers are perfect scenario but noone else is (bad salaries to deal and looking for Wall to be his old self in the playoffs). CLE seem to be the main secondary option - only because KLove contract is almost as bad and he is more useless. But, I doubt Wall want to go to CLE.
Wall's only option to getting his goals (winning team, minutes, etc,) is to give up some cash and take a buyout. I am sure Houston would let him walk right now if he would waive that player option of $47.4 mil - but that would be stupid on Wall's part. I think the question is how much is Wall willing to lose to be cut loose and join one of the power teams like LAL or BKN. I think Wall agrees to half of the $47 to get cut loose - which is a big hit he cannot make up but he gets to play for a winner.

I put Gordon in the same boat. He has $19.6 mil coming next year. If he took a big cut, he could walk also.

Noone wants either one due to price. But, both are useful players and would be snapped up by power teams on the cheap. Then, they would have a good chance at a ring. Plus, Wall at 31 and Gordon at 32, could extend their career for a few years on a power team.
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Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#136 » by queridiculo » Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:41 pm

Some seriously delusional thinking from both parties here.
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Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#137 » by Bentley1225 » Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:49 pm

When you look at lack of trade/roster/exemption flexibility this late into off-season, the cap space eroding in 2022 and teams that have cap space dont want his services/aren't contending, it seems best Wall can do is either MLE or TPE much like Kemba Walker situation between OKC and Knicks this off-season. Based on that what does Wall give up in a buyout at this point?

It doesn't make any sense from his camps perspective to give up any money for this season and the team won't just pay him $44 million for this season without getting some value. He can stick around to help develop Kevin Porter as a informal coach. Next off-season will be a better time for a buyout. I suspect he'd give up more than $9 million against the $47 million cap hit for 2022-23.

I assume there will be a MLE based market for him in 2022 off-season from the likes of maybe the Mavs, Pacers and Pelicans. I still think there is a deal to be made with the Clippers which includes Bledsoe + Kennard + Ibaka.
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Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#138 » by gswhoops » Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:10 pm

gambitx777 wrote:I'll say this again. While John walls contract is going to be very hard to move to a contender. To the right team it isn't, a team like OKC can afford to take some minor assets for the chance that wall rehabs value on a chunky one year deal that can be traded next summer. Now again Huston is in the same boat. So holding on to wall isn't terrible but they have no plans to rehab his value. OKC could with not a lot else at PG.

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I think the idea that Wall could play well enough to be flipped for assets next year is, to put it politely, extremely unrealistic.

Wall is making $47 million next year. He’d need to have an All-NBA level season merely to justify his salary, let alone a team giving up assets to take him on at that salary. And that’s not even to get into the issues with matching a salary that size.
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Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#139 » by HartfordWhalers » Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:36 pm

gswhoops wrote:
gambitx777 wrote:I'll say this again. While John walls contract is going to be very hard to move to a contender. To the right team it isn't, a team like OKC can afford to take some minor assets for the chance that wall rehabs value on a chunky one year deal that can be traded next summer. Now again Huston is in the same boat. So holding on to wall isn't terrible but they have no plans to rehab his value. OKC could with not a lot else at PG.

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I think the idea that Wall could play well enough to be flipped for assets next year is, to put it politely, extremely unrealistic.

Wall is making $47 million next year. He’d need to have an All-NBA level season merely to justify his salary, let alone a team giving up assets to take him on at that salary. And that’s not even to get into the issues with matching a salary that size.


Just echoing this, but when OKC 'flipped' Horford they did so by taking on even more money (~13m), and of a player they would fully cut ties with and get 0 production from. They basically took on an extra salary dump, and were paid to do so (as they were with Horford). And as they would expect to be when initially taking on Wall.
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Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#140 » by jayjaysee » Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:49 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:
jayjaysee wrote:Where THJ ends up in Philly or somewhere for an asset to Dallas .


Talk to me about what type of asset you think THJ returns starting this new contract. Right now I don't like the idea of this, but maybe you have THJ having a lot more value than I think he has?


That’s why I don’t like it for Dallas.

But Houston probably takes Love and Powell for Wall right? So what is it worth to Cleveland to turn Love into a quality rotation wing? Especially if they’ve traded for Simmons and want another spacer..

Or for Philly if they have taken Sexton for Simmons and Rubio (and something), adding THJ on his doesn’t hurt much and fits.. or same idea if Sac and Philly do something around Barnes+Mitchell+ for Simmons.

That’s really the only two things I saw when I suggested it and didn’t think either team would add enough to make me like it for Dallas.

But Houston should be adding value in a deal that turns Wall into say Danny Green, Powell, and Burke? So maybe you could pitch me on THJ, Powell, Burke for Wall and two probable late firsts? Still not a fan of it for Dallas but would give Dallas at least the ability to offer up Green+3-4 firsts if someone becomes available in 12 months.

Just a bad idea though.

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