Wall blasting off who wants him ?

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Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#141 » by Frichuela » Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:59 pm

queridiculo wrote:Some seriously delusional thinking from both parties here.


Agreed. A sad state of affairs.
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Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#142 » by MoneyTalks41890 » Wed Sep 15, 2021 3:09 pm

gambitx777 wrote:I'll say this again. While John walls contract is going to be very hard to move to a contender. To the right team it isn't, a team like OKC can afford to take some minor assets for the chance that wall rehabs value on a chunky one year deal that can be traded next summer. Now again Huston is in the same boat. So holding on to wall isn't terrible but they have no plans to rehab his value. OKC could with not a lot else at PG.

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You can keep saying it but it’s still wrong. Selling 33m in space for picks is better than taking on 90m for minor assets. It’s just nonsensical.
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Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#143 » by Bentley1225 » Wed Sep 15, 2021 3:25 pm

MoneyTalks41890 wrote:
gambitx777 wrote:I'll say this again. While John walls contract is going to be very hard to move to a contender. To the right team it isn't, a team like OKC can afford to take some minor assets for the chance that wall rehabs value on a chunky one year deal that can be traded next summer. Now again Huston is in the same boat. So holding on to wall isn't terrible but they have no plans to rehab his value. OKC could with not a lot else at PG.

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You can keep saying it but it’s still wrong. Selling 33m in space for picks is better than taking on 90m for minor assets. It’s just nonsensical.


Wall would have to lead OKC to playoffs, average 26/8/4 and make the all-star team for any team to be remotely interested in providing value against his $47 million cap hit for next season. I just dont see it happening.
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Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#144 » by Texas Chuck » Wed Sep 15, 2021 3:29 pm

GTR11 wrote:
vege wrote:Either Houston add a couple lightly protected firsts (which they shouldn't) and take back an useless expire, or they will buy out Wall, there is no other option. No one is touching the player or the contract without a lot of compensation going their way.

Exactly. All this takes beyond laughable. Pot heads gave me a good laughter. There's only 2 ways Houston moving Wall:
• buyout
• attach few picks
We talking about player who couldn't stay healthy past four years on supermax contract. Aaron just signed 4 year 92, Wall will get that in 2 :lol: . He's not even better player.


Let's leave out the 2nd sentence in future posts please. We can disagree without resorting to name calling.

thanks
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Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#145 » by Saul Goodman » Wed Sep 15, 2021 3:44 pm

Best i can think of is New Orleans getting Wall and Wood as they are both decent fits. December 15th.



Wood
Wall
House



for


Valanciunas
Josh Hart
Tomas Satoransky
Garrett Temple
protected 1st of some kind





Wall/Graham/Ingram/Zion/Wood has potential to make real noise in the west.
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Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#146 » by MoneyTalks41890 » Wed Sep 15, 2021 3:48 pm

Saul Goodman wrote:Best i can think of is New Orleans getting Wall and Wood as they are both decent fits. December 15th.



Wood
Wall
House



for


Valanciunas
Josh Hart
Tomas Satoransky
Garrett Temple
protected 1st of some kind






Wall/Graham/Ingram/Zion/Wood has potential to make real noise in the west.


I think this is intriguing, but instead of the first from NOP reroute Val and maybe the others for comp back to HOU.
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Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#147 » by Texas Chuck » Wed Sep 15, 2021 3:53 pm

I have Wall having more negative value than Wood has positive value. So much like when people freaked out about using Sexton to dump Love, I wonder why they don't realize Love is more negative than Sexton is positive with only one rookie year left.

So I don't see Houston getting positive value back dealing those as a package beyond just the obvious challenge of a team having enough matching salary they'd like to send out.

I think its much easier to deal Wood for value and then attach that value to try and turn Wall into expiring contracts or close to expiring contracts. Wood might have enough value to move just the final year, but even then I'm sketchy on that.
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Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#148 » by Saul Goodman » Wed Sep 15, 2021 3:55 pm

on second look I like Boston too.



Wall
Wood
House


for


Horford
Richardson
Dunn
Langford
Grant Williams




Wall/Brown/House/Tatum/Wood

Schroder/Smart/Parker/R.Williams




fills two holes in Wall as a lead playmaker feeding brown and tatum as well as a high level stretch big 3rd option in the Bosh mould.
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Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#149 » by toooskies » Wed Sep 15, 2021 4:21 pm

Bentley1225 wrote:When you look at lack of trade/roster/exemption flexibility this late into off-season, the cap space eroding in 2022 and teams that have cap space dont want his services/aren't contending, it seems best Wall can do is either MLE or TPE much like Kemba Walker situation between OKC and Knicks this off-season. Based on that what does Wall give up in a buyout at this point?

It doesn't make any sense from his camps perspective to give up any money for this season and the team won't just pay him $44 million for this season without getting some value. He can stick around to help develop Kevin Porter as a informal coach. Next off-season will be a better time for a buyout. I suspect he'd give up more than $9 million against the $47 million cap hit for 2022-23.

I assume there will be a MLE based market for him in 2022 off-season from the likes of maybe the Mavs, Pacers and Pelicans. I still think there is a deal to be made with the Clippers which includes Bledsoe + Kennard + Ibaka.

If he's bought out, OKC could sign him to a tradeable deal (say, ~$15m/year) with the intention of playing him until his contract is tradeable to a team without cap space (say, the Clippers) for an asset. Not sure how much tampering is required along the way to make that happen, but it's the kind of thing that all parties might do if they could agree to it in advance.

I agree with jbk1234 that the Wall/Love deals make less sense than just waiving Love. Rubio is possibly the better player and definitely the better fit on the Cavs. And they'd rather their backup PG salary expire this year than have Wall clogging the cap when Sexton is due his extension.
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Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#150 » by HotelVitale » Wed Sep 15, 2021 4:33 pm

Saul Goodman wrote:on second look I like Boston too.

Wall
Wood
House

for

Horford
Richardson
Dunn
Langford
Grant Williams

Wall/Brown/House/Tatum/Wood

Schroder/Smart/Parker/R.Williams
fills two holes in Wall as a lead playmaker feeding brown and tatum as well as a high level stretch big 3rd option in the Bosh mould.


Nah, you took out the positive value heading back to HOU and took away their motivation. They don't care about Wall's salary this year--they're already in full tank mode--and the extra cap space one year early for a tanking team isn't that valuable. Not valuable enough to lose Wood. You're also not just giving them expirings so they're still taking big cap hit with Horford/Richardson etc.
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Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#151 » by Xman » Wed Sep 15, 2021 5:19 pm

I like the NO idea:
NO gets Wall, Wood, House
- Wood would be great outside slashing threat next to Zion and can provide D. Wall is old but would provide guidance.

SAC gets JVal, Temple, Hart
- Hart provides some D and JVall fills the center position. Gives SAC some balance.

HOU gets - Bagley, Sato, TThompson, (Maybe Temple of SAC does not want him), a pick from SAC (2022 top 12 protected 1st becomes 2nds).
- Hou gets expirings and a pick while unloading Wall. Losing Wood hurts a lot but this lets the team move forward.
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Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#152 » by Texas Chuck » Wed Sep 15, 2021 5:25 pm

Cannot see the Kings giving a first to turn Thompson/Bagley into JV when they just paid Holmes to be their center. Temple and Hart add no real value.
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Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#153 » by Xman » Wed Sep 15, 2021 5:56 pm

Hart is solid value. A 3 and D that can defend 1-3 spots. Temple - ehhh. Thompson is dead weight. Bagley is salary filler - and seems done in SAC. The pick is low - becomes 2nds is SAC does not improve enough to make play in. JVall is a real center than can stand up inside - Holmes is solid but JVal is better - the tandem actually makes them fairly solid at the position where they have needed help since Cousins left.
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Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#154 » by kobe_vs_jordan » Wed Sep 15, 2021 5:58 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:I have Wall having more negative value than Wood has positive value. So much like when people freaked out about using Sexton to dump Love, I wonder why they don't realize Love is more negative than Sexton is positive with only one rookie year left.

So I don't see Houston getting positive value back dealing those as a package beyond just the obvious challenge of a team having enough matching salary they'd like to send out.

I think its much easier to deal Wood for value and then attach that value to try and turn Wall into expiring contracts or close to expiring contracts. Wood might have enough value to move just the final year, but even then I'm sketchy on that.

Sure but I don't think trade math is like real like math. A rebuilding team have little incentive to move off bad money like Love and Wall if it costing them Woods/Sexton. Might as well keep sexton/woods long term and just let the money expire in 2 seasons. Not like they going to be able to sign impact free agents anyways. Incentive has to be part of the math equation IMO.

This kind of logic is how the Clippers gifted Kyrie Irving to the Cavs
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Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#155 » by Magic_Johnny12 » Wed Sep 15, 2021 5:59 pm

Orlando Out - Terrence Ross
Orlando In - Luke Kennard

LAC Out - Luke Kennard/Marcus Morris/Eric Bledsoe
LAC In - John Wall/Terrence Ross

HOU Out - John Wall
HOU In - Eric Bledsoe/Marcus Morris

Some minimal SRP's added somewhere.

Orlando finds a younger Ross replacement which can shoot.
Los Angeles upgrades positions and shaves years off of contracts.
Houston manages to move Wall without including any substantial value.

Seems it will work for all sides...maybe.
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Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#156 » by Texas Chuck » Wed Sep 15, 2021 6:04 pm

kobe_vs_jordan wrote:
Texas Chuck wrote:I have Wall having more negative value than Wood has positive value. So much like when people freaked out about using Sexton to dump Love, I wonder why they don't realize Love is more negative than Sexton is positive with only one rookie year left.

So I don't see Houston getting positive value back dealing those as a package beyond just the obvious challenge of a team having enough matching salary they'd like to send out.

I think its much easier to deal Wood for value and then attach that value to try and turn Wall into expiring contracts or close to expiring contracts. Wood might have enough value to move just the final year, but even then I'm sketchy on that.

Sure but I don't think trade math is like real like math. A rebuilding team have little incentive to move off bad money like Love and Wall if it costing them Woods/Sexton. Might as well keep sexton/woods long term and just let the money expire in 2 seasons. Not like they going to be able to sign impact free agents anyways. Incentive has to be part of the math equation IMO.


I understand this concept. :D

But going back to Sexton. All indications have been they aren't looking to re-sign him to a big number. So your options are trade him for his value which is some non-lotto first. Or if you could use him to dump Love, that's worth well north of a non-lotto first. But people see the value in a pick that is unlikely to ever return anything more than maybe a depth piece, but see no value in clearing out $60M of dead weight.

Now what is Wood worth? Maybe a bit more than Sexton? Same concept. Now in this case I actually think that makes less sense for Houston than Cleveland as Houston is just entering the first full year of a rebuild and Cleveland hasn't had a good season without the best player of all-time on their roster in eons. So they should be more open minded as opposed to well we'll wait 2 more years except now Garland is on a new huge deal and so never is there cap space to add a veteran and they have the same roster only much more expensive and stay stuck.

But I also think there are multiple paths and we can all be too guilty of being too linear. If you really could use Wood to clear Wall then you could use all that new cap space to obtain new assets that might even be worth more than Wood. As I like to each each deal is not the last deal and so we have to think about what is possible next.
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Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#157 » by Texas Chuck » Wed Sep 15, 2021 6:05 pm

Magic_Johnny12 wrote:Orlando Out - Terrence Ross
Orlando In - Luke Kennard

.


I actually like just this part.
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Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#158 » by ejftw » Wed Sep 15, 2021 6:11 pm

Magic_Johnny12 wrote:Orlando Out - Terrence Ross
Orlando In - Luke Kennard

LAC Out - Luke Kennard/Marcus Morris/Eric Bledsoe
LAC In - John Wall/Terrence Ross

HOU Out - John Wall
HOU In - Eric Bledsoe/Marcus Morris

Some minimal SRP's added somewhere.

Orlando finds a younger Ross replacement which can shoot.
Los Angeles upgrades positions and shaves years off of contracts.
Houston manages to move Wall without including any substantial value.

Seems it will work for all sides...maybe.


Definitely doesn't work for the Clippers, who dealt away the heart of the team in Bev, for a lateral move in Bledsoe due to availability. They aren't now going to turn around and take on over 90M for an injury prone guy, who is near the end of his career and not in a Chris Paul type of way.

I would be utterly disappointed if any Wall to LA deal occurs without Jaygup & KJ heading back to Sunny So Cal.
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Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#159 » by Pelon chingon » Wed Sep 15, 2021 6:18 pm

Xman wrote:I like the NO idea:
NO gets Wall, Wood, House
- Wood would be great outside slashing threat next to Zion and can provide D. Wall is old but would provide guidance.

SAC gets JVal, Temple, Hart
- Hart provides some D and JVall fills the center position. Gives SAC some balance.

HOU gets - Bagley, Sato, TThompson, (Maybe Temple of SAC does not want him), a pick from SAC (2022 top 12 protected 1st becomes 2nds).
- Hou gets expirings and a pick while unloading Wall. Losing Wood hurts a lot but this lets the team move forward.

Your way off on the Kings value here. Sacramento has already invested in the 5 both short and long term so Val doesnt fill a need. Hart's a decent player but not remotely worth this kind of return.
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Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#160 » by Spin Move » Wed Sep 15, 2021 6:26 pm

HotelVitale wrote:
Saul Goodman wrote:on second look I like Boston too.

Wall
Wood
House

for

Horford
Richardson
Dunn
Langford
Grant Williams

Wall/Brown/House/Tatum/Wood

Schroder/Smart/Parker/R.Williams
fills two holes in Wall as a lead playmaker feeding brown and tatum as well as a high level stretch big 3rd option in the Bosh mould.


Nah, you took out the positive value heading back to HOU and took away their motivation. They don't care about Wall's salary this year--they're already in full tank mode--and the extra cap space one year early for a tanking team isn't that valuable. Not valuable enough to lose Wood. You're also not just giving them expirings so they're still taking big cap hit with Horford/Richardson etc.


Horford is only half Guaranteed for next season, Dunn has already been traded (Juancho whose salary is not guaranteed could be substituted). Grant and Langford are both expiring langford actually has some decent potential, very good defender, decent handle needs to improve his J

This could be structured to save Houston about 35 million next season using partially or non guaranteed players (Horford, Juancho, Parker Langford Williams) All of those combine to less then 15 million on the books for next season, Richardson will be expiring next season for 12.....Going from 62 million owed to 27 is a savings of 35 million.

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