Wall blasting off who wants him ?

Moderators: Texas Chuck, HartfordWhalers, Mamba4Goat, Andre Roberstan, Trader_Joe, pacers33granger, BullyKing, loserX

Saul Goodman
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,011
And1: 1,821
Joined: Feb 27, 2013
         

Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#161 » by Saul Goodman » Wed Sep 15, 2021 6:40 pm

Spin Move wrote:
HotelVitale wrote:
Saul Goodman wrote:on second look I like Boston too.

Wall
Wood
House

for

Horford
Richardson
Dunn
Langford
Grant Williams

Wall/Brown/House/Tatum/Wood

Schroder/Smart/Parker/R.Williams
fills two holes in Wall as a lead playmaker feeding brown and tatum as well as a high level stretch big 3rd option in the Bosh mould.


Nah, you took out the positive value heading back to HOU and took away their motivation. They don't care about Wall's salary this year--they're already in full tank mode--and the extra cap space one year early for a tanking team isn't that valuable. Not valuable enough to lose Wood. You're also not just giving them expirings so they're still taking big cap hit with Horford/Richardson etc.


Horford is only half Guaranteed for next season, Dunn has already been traded (Juancho whose salary is not guaranteed could be substituted). Grant and Langford are both expiring langford actually has some decent potential, very good defender, decent handle needs to improve his J

This could be structured to save Houston about 35 million next season using partially or non guaranteed players (Horford, Juancho, Parker Langford Williams) All of those combine to less then 15 million on the books for next season, Richardson will be expiring next season for 12.....Going from 62 million owed to 27 is a savings of 35 million.



Trade machine fooled me... poor Kris Dunn is Luke Ridnour status.
2016 GMAT Blazers

Howard/Nene/
Griffin/M.Leonard/T.Jones
Porter/Marc.Morris/J.Johnson
McCollum/Stauskas/Thompson/Seldon
Lillard/Bayless/DeColo
Bentley1225
RealGM
Posts: 11,752
And1: 1,271
Joined: Jan 10, 2007

Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#162 » by Bentley1225 » Wed Sep 15, 2021 6:41 pm

toooskies wrote:
Bentley1225 wrote:When you look at lack of trade/roster/exemption flexibility this late into off-season, the cap space eroding in 2022 and teams that have cap space dont want his services/aren't contending, it seems best Wall can do is either MLE or TPE much like Kemba Walker situation between OKC and Knicks this off-season. Based on that what does Wall give up in a buyout at this point?

It doesn't make any sense from his camps perspective to give up any money for this season and the team won't just pay him $44 million for this season without getting some value. He can stick around to help develop Kevin Porter as a informal coach. Next off-season will be a better time for a buyout. I suspect he'd give up more than $9 million against the $47 million cap hit for 2022-23.

I assume there will be a MLE based market for him in 2022 off-season from the likes of maybe the Mavs, Pacers and Pelicans. I still think there is a deal to be made with the Clippers which includes Bledsoe + Kennard + Ibaka.

If he's bought out, OKC could sign him to a tradeable deal (say, ~$15m/year) with the intention of playing him until his contract is tradeable to a team without cap space (say, the Clippers) for an asset. Not sure how much tampering is required along the way to make that happen, but it's the kind of thing that all parties might do if they could agree to it in advance.

I agree with jbk1234 that the Wall/Love deals make less sense than just waiving Love. Rubio is possibly the better player and definitely the better fit on the Cavs. And they'd rather their backup PG salary expire this year than have Wall clogging the cap when Sexton is due his extension.


OKC has too many young/developing backcourt assets and are in asset development mode. I see no mutual interest between Wall and OKC. Wall would just rather take his $44 million this season and work with a better open market in summer 2022 whereby more competitive teams can offer between the TPE and MLE for his services.
User avatar
jeremym480
Senior
Posts: 624
And1: 960
Joined: Jul 15, 2016
Location: Baton Rouge, LA
   

Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#163 » by jeremym480 » Wed Sep 15, 2021 6:48 pm

How about a three-team deal something like:

Wall, Mccollum, Covington, and two future 1st from HOU to Philly
Simmons to Houston
Tobias and filler (maybe something like Shake or Korkmaz) to Portland
User avatar
WashWiz54
Veteran
Posts: 2,796
And1: 353
Joined: Aug 07, 2004

Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#164 » by WashWiz54 » Wed Sep 15, 2021 6:56 pm

It feels good as a Wizard to be a winner on the Westbrook/Wall trade. There were a lot of emotions when Wall was dealt and some outsiders said the Wizards were the losers of this trade. Looks like we barely got out of his deal before it was too late.

As a John Wall fan, I can’t help but feel for the guy. I hope him well and hope he and the Houston Rockets can figure this out, but that contract is really bad. Thank goodness Ted finally let go of Grunfeld (the man who signed him to that deal) and got us a competent GM in Tommy Sheppard who cut the cord at the right time.
User avatar
Texas Chuck
Senior Mod - Mavericks and NBA TnT Forum
Senior Mod - Mavericks and NBA TnT Forum
Posts: 70,270
And1: 67,245
Joined: May 19, 2012
Location: Purgatory
   

Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#165 » by Texas Chuck » Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:05 pm

WashWiz54 wrote:It feels good as a Wizard to be a winner on the Westbrook/Wall trade. There were a lot of emotions when Wall was dealt and some outsiders said the Wizards were the losers of this trade. Looks like we barely got out of his deal before it was too late.

As a John Wall fan, I can’t help but feel for the guy. I hope him well and hope he and the Houston Rockets can figure this out, but that contract is really bad. Thank goodness Ted finally let go of Grunfeld (the man who signed him to that deal) and got us a competent GM in Tommy Sheppard who cut the cord at the right time.


I think most people realized Washington had won that trade in real-time. Westbrook for all his flaws still a highly productive and useful player. At that point we had no idea what Wall might be since it had been so long.

But no question Washington dodged a bullet. They were able to turn Westbrook into some useful if overpaid role players and a small asset. No chance of being able to do that with Wall. Houston gambled and lost. Won't hurt them too much if the plan is literally just to tank for 2 more years, but rough to have to essentially commit to that.
bondom34 wrote:This is stupid and you know this is stupid.
HotelVitale
RealGM
Posts: 10,595
And1: 5,882
Joined: Sep 14, 2007
Location: West Philly, PA

Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#166 » by HotelVitale » Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:26 pm

Spin Move wrote:
HotelVitale wrote:
Saul Goodman wrote:on second look I like Boston too.
Wall
Wood
House

for

Horford
Richardson
Dunn
Langford
Grant Williams

Wall/Brown/House/Tatum/Wood

Schroder/Smart/Parker/R.Williams
fills two holes in Wall as a lead playmaker feeding brown and tatum as well as a high level stretch big 3rd option in the Bosh mould.
Nah, you took out the positive value heading back to HOU and took away their motivation. They don't care about Wall's salary this year--they're already in full tank mode--and the extra cap space one year early for a tanking team isn't that valuable. Not valuable enough to lose Wood. You're also not just giving them expirings so they're still taking big cap hit with Horford/Richardson etc.
Horford is only half Guaranteed for next season, Dunn has already been traded (Juancho whose salary is not guaranteed could be substituted). Grant and Langford are both expiring langford actually has some decent potential, very good defender, decent handle needs to improve his J

This could be structured to save Houston about 35 million next season using partially or non guaranteed players (Horford, Juancho, Parker Langford Williams) All of those combine to less then 15 million on the books for next season, Richardson will be expiring next season for 12.....Going from 62 million owed to 27 is a savings of 35 million.


Yeah but you have them trading away their only good player--who's 25 years old and signed for cheap--in order to get some more cap space that they would be using to sign someone way more expensive and probably not any better. That doesn't make sense for a team in full, deep rebuild. Wall also expires that same year so this would be a one-offseason savings, just not sure what they're going to do with that one offseason and $35m that's better than a cheap-o Wood for 3 more years.
User avatar
Texas Chuck
Senior Mod - Mavericks and NBA TnT Forum
Senior Mod - Mavericks and NBA TnT Forum
Posts: 70,270
And1: 67,245
Joined: May 19, 2012
Location: Purgatory
   

Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#167 » by Texas Chuck » Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:03 pm

HotelVitale wrote:
Spin Move wrote:
HotelVitale wrote: Nah, you took out the positive value heading back to HOU and took away their motivation. They don't care about Wall's salary this year--they're already in full tank mode--and the extra cap space one year early for a tanking team isn't that valuable. Not valuable enough to lose Wood. You're also not just giving them expirings so they're still taking big cap hit with Horford/Richardson etc.
Horford is only half Guaranteed for next season, Dunn has already been traded (Juancho whose salary is not guaranteed could be substituted). Grant and Langford are both expiring langford actually has some decent potential, very good defender, decent handle needs to improve his J

This could be structured to save Houston about 35 million next season using partially or non guaranteed players (Horford, Juancho, Parker Langford Williams) All of those combine to less then 15 million on the books for next season, Richardson will be expiring next season for 12.....Going from 62 million owed to 27 is a savings of 35 million.


Yeah but you have them trading away their only good player--who's 25 years old and signed for cheap--in order to get some more cap space that they would be using to sign someone way more expensive and probably not any better. That doesn't make sense for a team in full, deep rebuild. Wall also expires that same year so this would be a one-offseason savings, just not sure what they're going to do with that one offseason and $35m that's better than a cheap-o Wood for 3 more years.


Wood only has one year after this one. And if you have Wall on your books you won't be competitive during his contract. As to the $35M no guarantees of course, but you make a play for an RFA or you sell cap space for assets. In theory even if you only took back expiring contracts. $35M worth gets you 2 non-premium firsts or about what Wood returns in trade, right?
bondom34 wrote:This is stupid and you know this is stupid.
JRoy
Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,852
And1: 2,604
Joined: Feb 27, 2019
 

Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#168 » by JRoy » Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:19 pm

jeremym480 wrote:How about a three-team deal something like:

Wall, Mccollum, Covington, and two future 1st from HOU to Philly
Simmons to Houston
Tobias and filler (maybe something like Shake or Korkmaz) to Portland


That’s going to be a no from POR.

Makes our weak d even weaker.

If POR deals with PHI, we need to get either YSBS or Thybulle, especially if RoCo is outbound.
Edrees wrote:
JRoy wrote:Monta Ellis have it all


I was hoping and expecting this to be one of the first replies. You did not disappoint. Jroy have it all.
HotelVitale
RealGM
Posts: 10,595
And1: 5,882
Joined: Sep 14, 2007
Location: West Philly, PA

Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#169 » by HotelVitale » Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:43 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:
HotelVitale wrote:
Spin Move wrote: Horford is only half Guaranteed for next season, Dunn has already been traded (Juancho whose salary is not guaranteed could be substituted). Grant and Langford are both expiring langford actually has some decent potential, very good defender, decent handle needs to improve his J This could be structured to save Houston about 35 million next season using partially or non guaranteed players (Horford, Juancho, Parker Langford Williams) All of those combine to less then 15 million on the books for next season, Richardson will be expiring next season for 12.....Going from 62 million owed to 27 is a savings of 35 million.

Yeah but you have them trading away their only good player--who's 25 years old and signed for cheap--in order to get some more cap space that they would be using to sign someone way more expensive and probably not any better. That doesn't make sense for a team in full, deep rebuild. Wall also expires that same year so this would be a one-offseason savings, just not sure what they're going to do with that one offseason and $35m that's better than a cheap-o Wood for 3 more years.

Wood only has one year after this one. And if you have Wall on your books you won't be competitive during his contract. As to the $35M no guarantees of course, but you make a play for an RFA or you sell cap space for assets. In theory even if you only took back expiring contracts. $35M worth gets you 2 non-premium firsts or about what Wood returns in trade, right?


Misread the bball ref cap sheet, they still include 2020-21 so you're right there's only 2 years left on Wood's deal. But nevertheless if the value is equal-ish why wouldn't you just take the asset in hand rather than a couple of theoretical 1st rounders from cap space which may or may not materialize? You're also losing Wood's bird rights.

Just seems like a nothing move, unless they actually don't like Wood as much as HOU fans on here do.
drosestruts
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,478
And1: 2,070
Joined: Apr 05, 2012
 

Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#170 » by drosestruts » Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:53 pm

Feeling a little delirious but could the Wall and Simmons situation resolve themselves together?

Wall, Wood, House, Porter Jr, Sengun, and six 1st round picks for Simmons, Harris, Milton, Reed, and Joe.


Sixers get some legit talent now in Wood. Intriguing young players in Porter Jr and Sengun. 3&D vet in House. Plus whatever he can contribute on the court in Wall, plus 6 first round picks.

Houston pairs up Jalen Green with Simmons and to a lesser extent Harris. Giving them a legit all-star, nba first team, DPOY guy to pair with their exciting rookie for a strong big 2.

Yes the Rockets have that many picks they could trade without going a year without a first-round pick.
Ballerhogger
RealGM
Posts: 35,179
And1: 10,970
Joined: Jul 06, 2014
       

Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#171 » by Ballerhogger » Thu Sep 16, 2021 12:15 am

jeremym480 wrote:How about a three-team deal something like:

Wall, Mccollum, Covington, and two future 1st from HOU to Philly
Simmons to Houston
Tobias and filler (maybe something like Shake or Korkmaz) to Portland
i dobut blazers have intrest in tobais there lossing 2 starters for one.
MoneyTalks41890
RealGM
Posts: 21,655
And1: 11,554
Joined: Oct 13, 2009
 

Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#172 » by MoneyTalks41890 » Thu Sep 16, 2021 12:22 am

Ballerhogger wrote:
jeremym480 wrote:How about a three-team deal something like:

Wall, Mccollum, Covington, and two future 1st from HOU to Philly
Simmons to Houston
Tobias and filler (maybe something like Shake or Korkmaz) to Portland
i dobut blazers have intrest in tobais there lossing 2 starters for one.


Toby and CJ are pretty objectively even, so adding RoCo feels like overkill without the right things back. Thybulle is one idea.
User avatar
RoyceDa59
RealGM
Posts: 21,711
And1: 5,846
Joined: Aug 25, 2002
         

Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#173 » by RoyceDa59 » Thu Sep 16, 2021 12:24 am

Wall+ for Simmons?
Go Raps!!
Yenrallik1111
Rookie
Posts: 1,100
And1: 186
Joined: Nov 14, 2020

Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#174 » by Yenrallik1111 » Thu Sep 16, 2021 1:20 am

Texas Chuck wrote:
Yenrallik1111 wrote:
Texas Chuck wrote:Wall/House/Worse of 22 BKN/MIA 1st(top 14 protected)

for

Love/Rubio

Rockets then buyout Love who even if he gives no money back will cost them less than Wall.
Cavs use Wall as a backup PG for a year then buy him out next year while pocketing a first round pick for their troubles. And they gamble he's healthy and solid enough where he gives back $7 or $8M which means they bought that late first pretty cheaply.


But yeah its a buyout. But a Cavs swap of problems just makes too much sense since Wall can actually play a role and Rubio's money is right there to match.


this makes no sense. especially with love going the other way. wall on the cavs and love on the rockets?? this doesn't solve contractual issues for either team. both players do not help either team's current positions. add a 3rd team crazy enough to take both with delusional ideas of the duo actually helping.



Not sure what you think either team should expect in a trade. That a team is going to let them off the financial hook for free? That a team is going to give them really good players for their massive negative contracts?

No 3rd team is riding to the rescue mate. This is my problem for your problem sort of thing. Now Whalers version of this is better than mine so I agree this is flawed. But not for the reasons you are suggesting here. These are massive negative contracts. There is no "good" solution to their problems.


haha, oh chuck. no I do not expect to get financial relief for free. get really good players?? bud, the exaggerations and illogical assumptions are quite misplaced. the 3rd team suggestion had statements like "team crazy enough" and "delusional ideas" eh? the take away from my post was ... why the heck bother making this move/suggesting this trade idea when it does not really change anything for either team. You took a shot in the dark I guess
Ballerhogger
RealGM
Posts: 35,179
And1: 10,970
Joined: Jul 06, 2014
       

Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#175 » by Ballerhogger » Thu Sep 16, 2021 1:52 am

RoyceDa59 wrote:Wall+ for Simmons?

i mean if all hell breaks lose and joel starts to complain and wants out or trade then i guess BUT MOREY AND FREDDTTI ..... They dont get along!
User avatar
DroseReturnChi
Head Coach
Posts: 6,951
And1: 2,000
Joined: Feb 12, 2012
   

Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#176 » by DroseReturnChi » Thu Sep 16, 2021 4:23 am

westbrook for wall do it for entertainment.
Doncic will be goat. Lauri will be his sidekick.
User avatar
DroseReturnChi
Head Coach
Posts: 6,951
And1: 2,000
Joined: Feb 12, 2012
   

Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#177 » by DroseReturnChi » Thu Sep 16, 2021 4:24 am

WashWiz54 wrote:It feels good as a Wizard to be a winner on the Westbrook/Wall trade. There were a lot of emotions when Wall was dealt and some outsiders said the Wizards were the losers of this trade. Looks like we barely got out of his deal before it was too late.

As a John Wall fan, I can’t help but feel for the guy. I hope him well and hope he and the Houston Rockets can figure this out, but that contract is really bad. Thank goodness Ted finally let go of Grunfeld (the man who signed him to that deal) and got us a competent GM in Tommy Sheppard who cut the cord at the right time.


houston were idiots to make the trade. i posted this one for fun but never knew gm would take it seriously.
Doncic will be goat. Lauri will be his sidekick.
basketballwacko2
RealGM
Posts: 17,587
And1: 2,845
Joined: May 11, 2002
Location: Just outside of No where.
     

Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#178 » by basketballwacko2 » Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:40 am

I thought about making a separate thread for this but I'll put it hear instead.

I have not read this whole thread so maybe this has been talked about. I remember a few years ago when the Rockets wanted to get "rid" of Ty Lawson. Lawson agreed to make part of his final year non-guaranteed then he was traded. I don't know if that is even legal now. Someone feel free to let us know.

So the question is could Wall and the Rockets agree to make part of his 2022-23 salary non-guaranteed? This might make him easier to trade. If he doesn't do well for the new team he could be let go before the beginning of the 22-23 season for the smaller buyout.

Ty Lawson really wanted out of Denver.

The point guard, as a condition of his trade from the Nuggets to the Rockets, agreed to alter his contract.

Previously, he was owed $12,404,495 this season and $13,213,482 next season – both years guaranteed.



Read on Twitter
?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E623241514806808576%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fnba.nbcsports.com%2F2015%2F07%2F20%2Fty-lawson-allows-final-season-of-contract-to-become-unguaranteed-puts-13213482-on-the-line%2F



https://nba.nbcsports.com/2015/07/20/ty-lawson-allows-final-season-of-contract-to-become-unguaranteed-puts-13213482-on-the-line/
desi tmac91
Junior
Posts: 427
And1: 292
Joined: Nov 27, 2012
     

Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#179 » by desi tmac91 » Thu Sep 16, 2021 12:09 pm

We're not trading a first or including Wood to dump Wall. We can just wait a season before getting rid of him in the offseason.
User avatar
zimpy27
Forum Mod
Forum Mod
Posts: 22,452
And1: 22,598
Joined: Jul 13, 2014

Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#180 » by zimpy27 » Thu Sep 16, 2021 12:15 pm

Wall plus 4 FRP for Simmons..
"Let's play some basketball!" - Fergie

Return to Trades and Transactions