Wall blasting off who wants him ?

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Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#81 » by kalenclayton » Wed Sep 15, 2021 3:13 am

Ballerhogger wrote:Wall for Hield and Harrison Barnes assuming its slow start for the kings?

Absolutely not. Wall on the Kings makes zero sense. I won’t even get into the valuation here, which seems to be lacking some serious draft compensation.
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Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#82 » by Yenrallik1111 » Wed Sep 15, 2021 3:17 am

Scoot McGroot wrote:
Commodor wrote:They'll have to wait a while for trade restrictions to lift but maybe?

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine

HOU Out
Wood
Wall

LAC Out
Bledsoe
Kennard
Ibaka
Morris Sr.

LAC takes on Wall's contract and gets a more dynamic big. May need to add in more value.

HOU can waive Morris & Ibaka and see what they like in Bledsoe & Kennard.

Honestly I do not see how Wall could be moved just spit ballin.


Nah, that’s a pretty good spit ball, there. Even if that’s not the deal, that’s some good out of the box thinking. :dontknow:


can appreciate the out of the box thinking. but aren't the clippers short on depth? feel like bled/serge/ and even morris provide more defensively while still come offense. but then again wall and wood up the talent level offensively. but again then there is the injury concerns. not ideal when doing a 4 for 2 swap. Wall is a tough one
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Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#83 » by tidho » Wed Sep 15, 2021 3:17 am

jbk1234 wrote:...John Wall doesn't play a position of need for the Cavs, doesn't fill any of our present needs on offense, can't defend the position, isn't looking to give back any money, isn't as good as he thinks he is, is a locker room malcontent, plays the same position as our best player, wants to start, probably doesn't want to play for a rebuilding team, surely doesn't want to come off the bench for one, oh, and he's on the worst contract in the NBA...


If all of this is true, then you don't do it. I think the team needs to talk to him about it before any trade offer to be sure.

If its Love and Rubio outbound then a 3rd guard is a position of need. He isn't a great defender but he's as capable as out other two guards. He may want to start and may prefer a better team but he probably also understands that opportunity may not be available at this point - there's very limited options if he wants to keep that money.

I don't think this is a huge get because it doesn't change the team's outlook a couple years from now when it counts, but if he's cooperative there's not much harm either.
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Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#84 » by KuruptedCav » Wed Sep 15, 2021 3:21 am

Cle in: Simmons, Eric Gordon
Phi In: Wall, Sexton, Cavs 2022 #1, Brooklyn 2022 #1
HOU In: Love, Rubio, Green

Houston saves money. Pays a non-premium #1 to do so. Aligns for another top-5 pick.

Cavs trade Sexton, #1, to buy low on Simmons. Simmons plugs to SF. Gordon balances the roster out.

Philly sells low on Simmons but gets a name in Wall, takes a flyer on Sexton, and two FRPs.

I don’t like it, but, I’d get it.


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Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#85 » by Texas Chuck » Wed Sep 15, 2021 3:46 am

Yenrallik1111 wrote:
Texas Chuck wrote:Wall/House/Worse of 22 BKN/MIA 1st(top 14 protected)

for

Love/Rubio

Rockets then buyout Love who even if he gives no money back will cost them less than Wall.
Cavs use Wall as a backup PG for a year then buy him out next year while pocketing a first round pick for their troubles. And they gamble he's healthy and solid enough where he gives back $7 or $8M which means they bought that late first pretty cheaply.


But yeah its a buyout. But a Cavs swap of problems just makes too much sense since Wall can actually play a role and Rubio's money is right there to match.


this makes no sense. especially with love going the other way. wall on the cavs and love on the rockets?? this doesn't solve contractual issues for either team. both players do not help either team's current positions. add a 3rd team crazy enough to take both with delusional ideas of the duo actually helping.



Not sure what you think either team should expect in a trade. That a team is going to let them off the financial hook for free? That a team is going to give them really good players for their massive negative contracts?

No 3rd team is riding to the rescue mate. This is my problem for your problem sort of thing. Now Whalers version of this is better than mine so I agree this is flawed. But not for the reasons you are suggesting here. These are massive negative contracts. There is no "good" solution to their problems.
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Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#86 » by rpa » Wed Sep 15, 2021 3:52 am

I'll probably get slaughtered for this, but...

Wall (and something possibly substantial) for Tobias Harris. Harris maybe to a 3rd team here.

Gives the Sixers the lead guard they're craving while retaining Simmons. Would allow them to move Simmons for BPA (a wing?) instead of focusing on star guards (none of whom are available).
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Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#87 » by Texas Chuck » Wed Sep 15, 2021 3:55 am

rpa wrote:I'll probably get slaughtered for this, but...

Wall (and something possibly substantial) for Tobias Harris. Harris maybe to a 3rd team here.

Gives the Sixers the lead guard they're craving while retaining Simmons. Would allow them to move Simmons for BPA (a wing?) instead of focusing on star guards (none of whom are available).



Problem is now Philly has traded their 2nd and 3rd best players for worse players(nobody is giving you a wing better than Simmons back). And you definitely need a 3rd team willing to give big assets for Tobias as Houston has no reason to. And I can't see a team giving big assets for Tobias.
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Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#88 » by jbk1234 » Wed Sep 15, 2021 3:59 am

tidho wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:...John Wall doesn't play a position of need for the Cavs, doesn't fill any of our present needs on offense, can't defend the position, isn't looking to give back any money, isn't as good as he thinks he is, is a locker room malcontent, plays the same position as our best player, wants to start, probably doesn't want to play for a rebuilding team, surely doesn't want to come off the bench for one, oh, and he's on the worst contract in the NBA...


If all of this is true, then you don't do it. I think the team needs to talk to him about it before any trade offer to be sure.

If its Love and Rubio outbound then a 3rd guard is a position of need. He isn't a great defender but he's as capable as out other two guards. He may want to start and may prefer a better team but he probably also understands that opportunity may not be available at this point - there's very limited options if he wants to keep that money.

I don't think this is a huge get because it doesn't change the team's outlook a couple years from now when it counts, but if he's cooperative there's not much harm either.
You'd be an idiot to trust him because he hasn't internalized where he is at this point in his career. The only reason he'd agree is because he'd think he can prove he should start in front of Garland and Sexton, and when he doesn't, it won't be his fault. He doesn't think he should play behind KPJ and Green right now.

He's not better defender, passer, or floor general than Rubio, he just takes more shots. That's it. And if trading Rubio creates the need to bring in a third guard, then you can just not trade Rubio.

He's not a good shooter. He'll make our spacing issues worse, not better. We already have the better, younger, and cheaper version of a very similar player and Sexton outplayed him last year in the ugliest game I watched all season.

Speaking of which, what lineup is he playing in on our roster as currently constructed? He can't possibly play next to Sexton. Is the lineup improved by having him instead of Sexton inserted? We had the worst three point shooting team in the NBA last season. What could he possibly say that could make any version of bringing John Wall to Cleveland a good idea?

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It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
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Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#89 » by rpa » Wed Sep 15, 2021 4:03 am

Texas Chuck wrote:Problem is now Philly has traded their 2nd and 3rd best players for worse players(nobody is giving you a wing better than Simmons back). And you definitely need a 3rd team willing to give big assets for Tobias as Houston has no reason to. And I can't see a team giving big assets for Tobias.


No one's giving them a better anything than Simmons back. Part of my point here is that if they're keeping Tobias, Simmons certainly has to go out for a guard and, well, there aren't many of those available. At least moving Tobi for the guard gives them flexibility on Simmons.

Texas Chuck wrote:And you definitely need a 3rd team willing to give big assets for Tobias as Houston has no reason to. And I can't see a team giving big assets for Tobias.


I don't think you need big assets here. Houston's owner would probably be more than happy to jettison a good chunk of that awful deal (Wall's).
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Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#90 » by K_chile22 » Wed Sep 15, 2021 4:04 am

Hmm. Tobias-Love-Wall base of a deal?
Obviously assets going to Philadelphia. I need to think on this more

edit: after thinking more, this was quickly found to be a deadend
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Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#91 » by Texas Chuck » Wed Sep 15, 2021 4:05 am

rpa wrote:
Texas Chuck wrote:Problem is now Philly has traded their 2nd and 3rd best players for worse players(nobody is giving you a wing better than Simmons back). And you definitely need a 3rd team willing to give big assets for Tobias as Houston has no reason to. And I can't see a team giving big assets for Tobias.


No one's giving them a better anything than Simmons back. Part of my point here is that if they're keeping Tobias, Simmons certainly has to go out for a guard and, well, there aren't many of those available. At least moving Tobi for the guard gives them flexibility on Simmons.

Texas Chuck wrote:And you definitely need a 3rd team willing to give big assets for Tobias as Houston has no reason to. And I can't see a team giving big assets for Tobias.


I don't think you need big assets here. Houston's owner would probably be more than happy to jettison a good chunk of that awful deal (Wall's).



Your selling point to Philly was getting major assets back in a Wall/Tobias swap. Houston has no reason to give up anything good in that swap so a 3rd team would have to. I don't see it.
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Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#92 » by Ballerhogger » Wed Sep 15, 2021 4:10 am

K_chile22 wrote:Hmm. Tobias-Love-Wall base of a deal?
Obviously assets going to Philadelphia. I need to think on this more

If it involves love going to 76ers I guess????? And wall goes where ? Point being wall can’t go Cleveland
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Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#93 » by rpa » Wed Sep 15, 2021 4:13 am

Texas Chuck wrote:Your selling point to Philly was getting major assets back in a Wall/Tobias swap. Houston has no reason to give up anything good in that swap so a 3rd team would have to. I don't see it.


No it wasn't. I just said Houston would probably need to add something possibly substantial (lottery pick) to bridge the value, but that's not the selling point for Philly. The selling point to Philly is getting a lead guard (taking the chance that Wall recovers to something close to his old self while costing far less)--something they need--and adding flexibility to a future Simmons trade.

Houston's reasons (pending the return for Tobi--which would not be much) would be some combination of money savings, tanking, and 2023 cap space.
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Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#94 » by K_chile22 » Wed Sep 15, 2021 4:15 am

Ballerhogger wrote:
K_chile22 wrote:Hmm. Tobias-Love-Wall base of a deal?
Obviously assets going to Philadelphia. I need to think on this more

If it involves love going to 76ers I guess????? And wall goes where ? Point being wall can’t go Cleveland

Wall would go to philly, he's a better player than Love and at a position they need. Don't think there's anything there though. Doubt Cleveland would add their own first to upgrade from Love to Tobias. IMO Love is just cooked
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Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#95 » by Texas Chuck » Wed Sep 15, 2021 4:15 am

rpa wrote:
Texas Chuck wrote:Your selling point to Philly was getting major assets back in a Wall/Tobias swap. Houston has no reason to give up anything good in that swap so a 3rd team would have to. I don't see it.


No it wasn't. I just said Houston would probably need to add something possibly substantial (lottery pick) to bridge the value, but that's not the selling point for Philly. The selling point to Philly is getting a lead guard (taking the chance that Wall recovers to something close to his old self while costing far less)--something they need--and adding flexibility to a future Simmons trade.

Houston's reasons (pending the return for Tobi--which would not be much) would be some combination of money savings, tanking, and 2023 cap space.


So if the selling point to Philly is not an asset, you are suggesting they just massively downgrade from Harris to Wall for positional flex? And I don't understand how Wall costs less?

I just don't get the appeal to Philly at all. Something has to be left out. Because it makes no sense to me to turn a good player like Harris into a worse player with some of the same issues that plague Simmons just so I can now trade Simmons for a guard or a forward.

I'm trying to understand this, but it just sounds like getting worse to me.
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Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#96 » by Ballerhogger » Wed Sep 15, 2021 4:26 am

K_chile22 wrote:
Ballerhogger wrote:
K_chile22 wrote:Hmm. Tobias-Love-Wall base of a deal?
Obviously assets going to Philadelphia. I need to think on this more

If it involves love going to 76ers I guess????? And wall goes where ? Point being wall can’t go Cleveland

Wall would go to philly, he's a better player than Love and at a position they need. Don't think there's anything there though. Doubt Cleveland would add their own first to upgrade from Love to Tobias. IMO Love is just cooked

Yea sixers want the moon for Ben… I don’t see this happening
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Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#97 » by rpa » Wed Sep 15, 2021 4:30 am

Texas Chuck wrote:So if the selling point to Philly is not an asset, you are suggesting they just massively downgrade from Harris to Wall for positional flex? And I don't understand how Wall costs less?

I just don't get the appeal to Philly at all. Something has to be left out. Because it makes no sense to me to turn a good player like Harris into a worse player with some of the same issues that plague Simmons just so I can now trade Simmons for a guard or a forward.

I'm trying to understand this, but it just sounds like getting worse to me.


I think the disconnect is in how we view Harris. It's kind of similar to your arguments against a CJ for Simmons swap in the other thread. Some people think it would benefit Philly and you, well, were exasperated at the very mention of it.
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Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#98 » by bondom34 » Wed Sep 15, 2021 4:31 am

Harris is good though?
MyUniBroDavis wrote: he was like YALL PEOPLE WHO DOUBT ME WILL SEE YALLS STATS ARE WRONG I HAVE THE BIG BRAIN PLAYS MUCHO NASTY BIG BRAIN BIG CHUNGUS BRAIN YOU BOYS ON UR BBALL REFERENCE NO UNDERSTANDO
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Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#99 » by Ballerhogger » Wed Sep 15, 2021 4:32 am

bondom34 wrote:Harris is good though?

he looked good,
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Re: Wall blasting off who wants him ? 

Post#100 » by bondom34 » Wed Sep 15, 2021 4:32 am

What
MyUniBroDavis wrote: he was like YALL PEOPLE WHO DOUBT ME WILL SEE YALLS STATS ARE WRONG I HAVE THE BIG BRAIN PLAYS MUCHO NASTY BIG BRAIN BIG CHUNGUS BRAIN YOU BOYS ON UR BBALL REFERENCE NO UNDERSTANDO

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