Offseason Grades - Detroit Pistons

[bondom34]

Mamba4Goat's offseason grade:

Detroit Pistons transactions

Front office
none

Draft
Drafted Cade Cunningham at #1.
Drafted Isaiah Livers at #42.
Drafted Luke Garza at #52.
Drafted Balsa Koprivica at #57 (acquired from Charlotte).

Trades
Traded Mason Plumlee and #37 for #57.
Traded Sekou Doumbouya and Jahlil Okafor for Deandre Jordan, 4 2nds, and cash

Free agency
Waived Cory Joseph ($2.4M guaranteed); re-signed 2/$10M.
Waived Rodney McGruder ($0 guaranteed); re-signed 1/min.
Re-signed Saben Lee, 3/$5M.
Signed Kelly Olynyk, $3/37M.
Signed Trey Lyles, 2/$5M.
Signed Frank Jackson, 2/$6M.

Offseason Thoughts
I mean, they get an automatic win for winning the draft lottery and getting Cade, right? Ignoring that, I think the Plumlee trade was kind of a loss but replacing him with Kelly Olynyk on a pretty good deal is worth it. Saben Lee and Frank Jackson being re-signed is good as well. My biggest qualm is all of the stretched money they're accruing. They may be the first team that pushes the limits of stretched money.

Grade
B+ lots of just decent after Cade with some bad, and some okay things being their offseason.

2022 Prediction
Worst in the East

Offseason in gif form


K_Chile22's offseason grade:

Detroit Pistons transactions

Front office
none

Draft
Drafted Cade Cunningham at #1.
Drafted Isaiah Livers at #42.
Drafted Luke Garza at #52.
Drafted Balsa Koprivica at #57 (acquired from Charlotte).

Trades
Traded Miles Plumlee and #37 for #57.
Traded Sekou Doumbouya and Jahlil Okafor for Deandre Jordan, 4 2nds, and cash

Free agency
Waived Cory Joseph ($2.4M guaranteed); re-signed 2/$10M.
Waived Rodney McGruder ($0 guaranteed); re-signed 1/min.
Re-signed Saben Lee, 3/$5M.
Signed Kelly Olynyk, $3/37M.
Signed Trey Lyles, 2/$5M.
Signed Frank Jackson, 2/$6M.

Offseason Thoughts

Not sure how much credit to give to a team for winning the lotto, but they didn't get cute with it, so I will give them some credit here.
The Plumless trade is rough, they JUST stretched guys to sign him and now dumped him at a negative price. I know their cap space is worth less because of the market, but that doesn't excuse terrible cap management. Not docking them much because that was a misstep from last year's off-season, not this one.
The Cory Joseph signing just makes no sense. Like the Kelly O deal for them, but again, the path there was ugly. Did alright to grab 4 seconds for taking Jordan I think, but I'm in the "Doumbouya has no, or negative value", but that seems to be more of a fringe position than I thought.
If Grant's value is as high as some on this board think it is, they should have capitalized and traded him, but I really doubt it is

Grade
B. Nearly all the stuff I didn't like was the result of previous off-seasons, so felt weird docking them too much on that.
2022 Prediction
They'll be very bad, but that's good!
Offseason in gif form



bondom34's offseason grade:

Detroit Pistons transactions

Front office
none

Draft
Drafted Cade Cunningham at #1.
Drafted Isaiah Livers at #42.
Drafted Luke Garza at #52.
Drafted Balsa Koprivica at #57 (acquired from Charlotte).

Trades
Traded Miles Plumlee and #37 for #57.

Free agency
Waived Cory Joseph ($2.4M guaranteed); re-signed 2/$10M.
Waived Rodney McGruder ($0 guaranteed); re-signed 1/min.
Re-signed Saben Lee, 3/$5M.
Signed Kelly Olynyk, $3/37M.
Signed Trey Lyles, 2/$5M.
Signed Frank Jackson, 2/$6M.
Re-signed Hamidou Diallo, 2/$10.8M

Offseason Thoughts
Kind of odd for a team with the first pick, but reading back through this given the assets they started with, it felt fine. The Plumlee trade was a little surprising after a solid year, given they moved back to trade him. The Olynyk deal is fine, people smarter than me seem to love the fit with Cunningham but a little odd to salary dump a big man to turn around and sign another to more money (granted not nearly what I'd initially read that tweet as ) but he is a different type of big, so I suppose the stretch element is something they really wanted.

Diallo's 2nd year is a team option or NG I believe, so I thought that was fine. The Joseph contract was another weird one, having a PO in the 2nd year after waiving him is a choice. And the trade w/ Brooklyn was fine, no issues with cutting losses if they are out on Doumbouya.

The draft was the main talent infusion and they had the first pick, so it's weird to try to grade it but as K_Chile said they didn't get cute. Don't love the big men taken later but they're late 2nds so whatever.

Grade
This was actually hard, but think B-, they got Cunningham but the rest fel blah at best. Nothing else was terribly consequential but they burned through some money.

2022 Prediction
Bottom 3 in the East

Offseason in gif form

[bondom34]

I should have gone with the theme on gifs but hadn't really thought of it that way until I saw others. This works too.

[HornetJail]

B+.

Pro: Cade

Con: everything else was meh but nothing catastrophic

[gswhoops]

A-

They got the only decision of any real consequence right. The rest was baffling but ultimately irrelevant in the long term so it’s hard to get worked up over it

[giberish]

Long term what really matters is Cade. I'm not a big fan but the only full game I saw him play was against the real OSU and he didn't look that impressive. Of course I know that's not nearly enough to judge meaningfully.

The rest of the deals continue a trend from last offseason of getting bad value and taking on dead money stretched into the future just to quickly dump everything that came before. We'll have to see if getting bad value on side deals continues now that Weaver has fully cleaned house. If it does it becomes a problem as even with a good core you just can't be bleeding value all the time on secondary deals.

[Mamba4Goat]

Forgot to comment on it but I do like the Garza and Livers draft picks too. Garza has impressed to the point of potentially getting an NBA deal instead of a two-way deal too.

[Texas Chuck]

I'll give Weaver credit for coming in and just completely clearing house. I agree with his review of the roster that he inherited that there was nothing worth building around.

I dock him a lot of his overuse of the stretch provision. Stop doing that as it just makes your job more difficult when you hope to be good again.

I'm pretty meh on most of his free agents signings. Strike that, I'm less than meh. But he seems to have drafted well and ultimately that's whats going to make or break his tenure. Seemed to find two cornerstones last year and one more this year.

Needs to tighten up on the margins for sure. But he gets a C+.

[gom]

It's easy to just rubberstamp the Pistons as an 'A' just on the basis of drafting Cunningham, though Livers and Garza working with Coach Beilein, senior adviser for Pistons player development, is also big win. Pistons are doing a lot of things right and are not under much pressure to perform, so they are likely to get another great pick this season.

Still I wonder whether they gave up too soon on Sekou Doumbouya. I thought he is the kind of prospect they should be developing. He is only 20 years old. That lack of commitment is worrisome.

I've no issue with most of their signings, but I'm confused about both Cojo and McGruder, though I recognize they are both pros and put their best effort on the court, which will have a positive impact on the young players, but shouldn't those minutes go to the young guys instead? And, yes, I like KO but I am confused about trading Plumlee. That wasn't something broken.

I'm going to go with a B, but this will be a joke later when Cade Cunningham tops the all-star balloting next season.

For now, though, I think the Pistons will lose a lot and when they do it will be exciting.

[vege]

Seemed to find two cornerstones last year and one more this year.

Isaiah Stewart hands are Kwame Brown bad, so I am not sure if he is a cornerstone to be honest, I love his effort and attitude tho, he will at least be a very good energy guy off the bench, but if you watch him play you'll realise he is not that great.

Saddiq Bey and Cade Cunninghan are fantastic and I am excited because of them.

[Mamba4Goat]

Seemed to find two cornerstones last year and one more this year.

Isaiah Stewart hands are Kwame Brown bad, so I am not sure if he is a cornerstone to be honest, I love his effort and attitude tho, he will at least be a very good energy guy off the bench, but if you watch him play you'll realise he is not that great.

Saddiq Bey and Cade Cunninghan are fantastic and I am excited because of them.

Killian Hayes and Jerami Grant may be said cornerstones. Bey and Stewart aren’t bad either though.

[vege]

Seemed to find two cornerstones last year and one more this year.

Isaiah Stewart hands are Kwame Brown bad, so I am not sure if he is a cornerstone to be honest, I love his effort and attitude tho, he will at least be a very good energy guy off the bench, but if you watch him play you'll realise he is not that great.

Saddiq Bey and Cade Cunninghan are fantastic and I am excited because of them.

Killian Hayes and Jerami Grant may be said cornerstones. Bey and Stewart aren’t bad either though.

Killian Hayes is so bad he need to spend a couple of seasons in the G-League to see if he has any chance to be NBA material one day.

Grant, Bey and then Cade sure + Stewart and Frank Jackson off the bench, everything else is terrible (considering KO is 30yo and this team is not going anywhere any time soon).

[sfballa13]

For all the stretching and bs we did you would think Kelly O is a top 10 PF in the NBA

Kelly O and Joseph are going to be the reason why the Pistons get the #8 or #9 pick instead of a top 5 pick

[Snakebites]

I'll give Weaver credit for coming in and just completely clearing house. I agree with his review of the roster that he inherited that there was nothing worth building around.

I dock him a lot of his overuse of the stretch provision. Stop doing that as it just makes your job more difficult when you hope to be good again.

I'm pretty meh on most of his free agents signings. Strike that, I'm less than meh. But he seems to have drafted well and ultimately that's whats going to make or break his tenure. Seemed to find two cornerstones last year and one more this year.

Needs to tighten up on the margins for sure. But he gets a C+.

The criticism of the stretch provision is fair, accept that it wasn’t used this offseason, so I’m not sure why it factors into a grade here.

[Texas Chuck]

I'll give Weaver credit for coming in and just completely clearing house. I agree with his review of the roster that he inherited that there was nothing worth building around.

I dock him a lot of his overuse of the stretch provision. Stop doing that as it just makes your job more difficult when you hope to be good again.

I'm pretty meh on most of his free agents signings. Strike that, I'm less than meh. But he seems to have drafted well and ultimately that's whats going to make or break his tenure. Seemed to find two cornerstones last year and one more this year.

Needs to tighten up on the margins for sure. But he gets a C+.

The criticism of the stretch provision is fair, accept that it wasn’t used this offseason, so I’m not sure why it factors into a grade here.

It factors into his overall performance as my main point about him totally turning the roster over took place mostly last off-season as well.

But this off-season, he drafted the obvious guy at 1, paid to get off one of his first FA signings and I just don't understand why they went from Wood to Plumlee to Olynyk. Assuming that Houston play wasn't reflective of who Kelly is now, this just feels like moving backwards. Hence a C+. Maybe its too harsh? Or maybe my love affair with Mason Plumlee is clouding my vision?

[HornetJail]

For all the stretching and bs we did you would think Kelly O is a top 10 PF in the NBA

Kelly O and Joseph are going to be the reason why the Pistons get the #8 or #9 pick instead of a top 5 pick

nah they're not impact players like that. Detroit will have no problem getting a top 5 pick again. Not a lot of other teams tanking right now anyway.

[chrbal]

I'll give Weaver credit for coming in and just completely clearing house. I agree with his review of the roster that he inherited that there was nothing worth building around.

I dock him a lot of his overuse of the stretch provision. Stop doing that as it just makes your job more difficult when you hope to be good again.

I'm pretty meh on most of his free agents signings. Strike that, I'm less than meh. But he seems to have drafted well and ultimately that's whats going to make or break his tenure. Seemed to find two cornerstones last year and one more this year.

Needs to tighten up on the margins for sure. But he gets a C+.

The criticism of the stretch provision is fair, accept that it wasn’t used this offseason, so I’m not sure why it factors into a grade here.

It factors into his overall performance as my main point about him totally turning the roster over took place mostly last off-season as well.

But this off-season, he drafted the obvious guy at 1, paid to get off one of his first FA signings and I just don't understand why they went from Wood to Plumlee to Olynyk. Assuming that Houston play wasn't reflective of who Kelly is now, this just feels like moving backwards. Hence a C+. Maybe its too harsh? Or maybe my love affair with Mason Plumlee is clouding my vision?

Not super important, but it was Wood to Grant. Your love of plumlee clouds you like the dark side of the force.

I don’t think Wood wanted to stay in Detroit unless they overpaid him. The trade for Dedmon, cut Dedmon to sign plumlee, dump plumlees contract to sign Kelly was weird as all it can be. Basically just a big waste.

[Snakebites]

The criticism of the stretch provision is fair, accept that it wasn’t used this offseason, so I’m not sure why it factors into a grade here.

It factors into his overall performance as my main point about him totally turning the roster over took place mostly last off-season as well.

But this off-season, he drafted the obvious guy at 1, paid to get off one of his first FA signings and I just don't understand why they went from Wood to Plumlee to Olynyk. Assuming that Houston play wasn't reflective of who Kelly is now, this just feels like moving backwards. Hence a C+. Maybe its too harsh? Or maybe my love affair with Mason Plumlee is clouding my vision?

Not super important, but it was Wood to Grant. Your love of plumlee clouds you like the dark side of the force.

I don’t think Wood wanted to stay in Detroit unless they overpaid him. The trade for Dedmon, cut Dedmon to sign plumlee, dump plumlees contract to sign Kelly was weird as all it can be. Basically just a big waste.

Yeah, I think the thing that bugs me about the whole Plumlee thing is that we could have signed Grant without stretching anyone. The stretching was done to get Plumlee, who ended up having a perfectly good season (in my view as good as could have been expected), yet that still valued him as a negative. In other words, he was NEVER going to be plus value at the money we gave him, so why bend over backwards to do it?

Signing Kelly O to more money isn't a move I love, but it is defensible if you really believe he can shoot 38% from three while providing rotational minutes at the 4 and 5 (whereas Plumlee's ceiling for us this year barring injuries was cleaning up whatever minutes at center Stewart didn't take). Your mileage varies. I don't love the move but I don't hate it.

The Christian Wood thing? I guess I tend to fall into the "we don't know if he even wanted to stay here" camp. Is that wrong? Maybe. But it helps me sleep at night, along with the fact that I don't love the player anyway.

The only move THIS offseason I think you can't put a bow on is resigning Cory Joseph. It's bad, but at least it's a relatively small move.

Overall, we added a potential young star and a few role players, while still retaining flexibility for the next couple of offseasons. I don't see that as ranking below a B-.

[chrbal]

It factors into his overall performance as my main point about him totally turning the roster over took place mostly last off-season as well.

But this off-season, he drafted the obvious guy at 1, paid to get off one of his first FA signings and I just don't understand why they went from Wood to Plumlee to Olynyk. Assuming that Houston play wasn't reflective of who Kelly is now, this just feels like moving backwards. Hence a C+. Maybe its too harsh? Or maybe my love affair with Mason Plumlee is clouding my vision?

Not super important, but it was Wood to Grant. Your love of plumlee clouds you like the dark side of the force.

I don’t think Wood wanted to stay in Detroit unless they overpaid him. The trade for Dedmon, cut Dedmon to sign plumlee, dump plumlees contract to sign Kelly was weird as all it can be. Basically just a big waste.

Yeah, I think the thing that bugs me about the whole Plumlee thing is that we could have signed Grant without stretching anyone. The stretching was done to get Plumlee, who ended up having a perfectly good season (in my view as good as could have been expected), yet that still valued him as a negative. In other words, he was NEVER going to be plus value at the money we gave him, so why bend over backwards to do it?

Signing Kelly O to more money isn't a move I love, but it is defensible if you really believe he can shoot 38% from three while providing rotational minutes at the 4 and 5 (whereas Plumlee's ceiling for us this year barring injuries was cleaning up whatever minutes at center Stewart didn't take). Your mileage varies. I don't love the move but I don't hate it.

The Christian Wood thing? I guess I tend to fall into the "we don't know if he even wanted to stay here" camp. Is that wrong? Maybe. But it helps me sleep at night, along with the fact that I don't love the player anyway.

The only move THIS offseason I think you can't put a bow on is resigning Cory Joseph. It's bad, but at least it's a relatively small move.

Overall, we added a potential young star and a few role players, while still retaining flexibility for the next couple of offseasons. I don't see that as ranking below a B-.

The cojo resigning feels very much like hooking up your bro with a job.

That and the plumlee experience are the only ones I feel lightly vege-like about.


Pistons off-season score- b or b minus

[Ballerhogger]

B the deAndre trade is kinda weird still

[meekrab]

I mean they got the golden ticket and didn't mess it up, but then did a lot of chicanery for mediocre players/assets. B-/C+