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Does something around McCollum for Kyrie make sense?

Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 11:23 am
by Laimbeer
CJ gives Brooklyn their third scorer and their recipe stays somewhat the same. Portland takes a bold step, hoping to emulate the success the Nets had with Kyrie/Harden.

Re: Does something around McCollum for Kyrie make sense?

Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 11:50 am
by SharpyShuffle
Portland seems like the kind of city that could enact a vaccine mandate in a few months.

If the Nets send Kyrie anywhere, it needs to be somewhere like New Orleans, who is a little bit desperate to push for success and who are in a very red state.

Re: Does something around McCollum for Kyrie make sense?

Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 12:43 pm
by Village Idiot
a 3 team deal, looping in Philly as the Kyrie destination and Simmons going to Portland makes more sense. Kyrie is much more likely to resign in Philly and he would have a very clear role on a contender close to where he wants to be. Portland needs Simmons' D a lot more than it needs Irving.

Re: Does something around McCollum for Kyrie make sense?

Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 12:48 pm
by daoneandonly
Doesnt make sense for either team IMO. Kyrie and Dame just do not fit, and there are tiers and rung son a ladder of separation between Kyrie/Simmons, and 6th men types like CJ

Re: Does something around McCollum for Kyrie make sense?

Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:42 pm
by MoneyTalks41890
Village Idiot wrote:a 3 team deal, looping in Philly as the Kyrie destination and Simmons going to Portland makes more sense. Kyrie is much more likely to resign in Philly and he would have a very clear role on a contender close to where he wants to be. Portland needs Simmons' D a lot more than it needs Irving.


Portland would just get cut out.

Re: Does something around McCollum for Kyrie make sense?

Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:55 pm
by Village Idiot
MoneyTalks41890 wrote:
Village Idiot wrote:a 3 team deal, looping in Philly as the Kyrie destination and Simmons going to Portland makes more sense. Kyrie is much more likely to resign in Philly and he would have a very clear role on a contender close to where he wants to be. Portland needs Simmons' D a lot more than it needs Irving.


Portland would just get cut out.
Probably. I was basing this off of the assertions of some Nets fans on the other thread that felt Simmons would be a bad fit in Brooklyn.

Re: Does something around McCollum for Kyrie make sense?

Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 3:01 pm
by RoyceDa59
I really don’t think Kyrie is in a position to be traded.

No one is taking on that risk.

Re: Does something around McCollum for Kyrie make sense?

Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 3:15 pm
by Texas Chuck
SharpyShuffle wrote:Portland seems like the kind of city that could enact a vaccine mandate in a few months.

If the Nets send Kyrie anywhere, it needs to be somewhere like New Orleans, who is a little bit desperate to push for success and who are in a very red state.


Portland seems like the kind of city far less likely to need one....

But man am I tired of all this political division on this board. There is some relevance in those cities that have mandates for us to discuss the impact at least in regards to Kyrie specifically. But we had like 40 trade Wiggins to Texas threads before he got the vax because that state is red which led to just horrible trades because that was literally the only justification.

It's lazy.

Re: Does something around McCollum for Kyrie make sense?

Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 3:18 pm
by daoneandonly
Texas Chuck wrote:
SharpyShuffle wrote:Portland seems like the kind of city that could enact a vaccine mandate in a few months.

If the Nets send Kyrie anywhere, it needs to be somewhere like New Orleans, who is a little bit desperate to push for success and who are in a very red state.


Portland seems like the kind of city far less likely to need one....

But man am I tired of all this political division on this board. There is some relevance in those cities that have mandates for us to discuss the impact at least in regards to Kyrie specifically. But we had like 40 trade Wiggins to Texas threads before he got the vax because that state is red which led to just horrible trades because that was literally the only justification.

It's lazy.


Not to mention Cuban wants the Mavs to be 100% vaccinated so trying to get unvaxxed guys to Dallas doesnt really make sense

Re: Does something around McCollum for Kyrie make sense?

Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 3:23 pm
by SharpyShuffle
Texas Chuck wrote:
SharpyShuffle wrote:Portland seems like the kind of city that could enact a vaccine mandate in a few months.

If the Nets send Kyrie anywhere, it needs to be somewhere like New Orleans, who is a little bit desperate to push for success and who are in a very red state.


Portland seems like the kind of city far less likely to need one....

But man am I tired of all this political division on this board. There is some relevance in those cities that have mandates for us to discuss the impact at least in regards to Kyrie specifically. But we had like 40 trade Wiggins to Texas threads before he got the vax because that state is red which led to just horrible trades because that was literally the only justification.

It's lazy.
Call it what you like, the fact is that the Covid situation is fluid, and teams are unlikely to trade for player who may be effectively taken away from them a few months down the line of a new variant emerges or whatever. Of course when discussing a player who is only (hypothetically) up for trade because of his vaccine status, the possibility of vaccine mandates is a key factor.

And the Pelicans ARE a (relatively) likely suitor for him IMO. GM who already worked with him. We know they tried hard to sign an elite PG (CP3 and Lowry - granted a different archetype of PG, but still Kyrie would instantly provide a massive upgrade in the position). Zion getting antsy, and the team seem to be short-termist in their thinking anyway. I don't think something like Kyrie for BI is illogical all.

I think that if I gave you the sentence "After a disappointing start and with their GM under pressure to make the playoffs, ______ executed an ambitious and controversial trade for Kyrie Irving", your brain will have "The New Orleans Pelicans" as one of the first options to fill in the blank.

Re: Does something around McCollum for Kyrie make sense?

Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 3:27 pm
by Texas Chuck
SharpyShuffle wrote:[Call it what you like, the fact is that the Covid situation is fluid, and teams are unlikely to trade for player who may be effectively taken away from them a few months down the line of a new variant emerges or whatever. Of course when discussing a player who is only (hypothetically) up for trade because of his vaccine status, the possibility of vaccine mandates is a key factor.

.


Of course its relevant. Kyrie has zero trade value atm. I don't see any team giving Brooklyn anything worth having for him. So its totally DOA.

Not well this is a red state so they will trade a bunch of good stuff for him, but this is a blue state so they won't. It's a no from everyone right now.

Now if Simmons is really not vaccinated, then yeah we need to scratch some teams off his possible destinations due to current mandates. Guessing about future ones is something you are free to do as well of course, but the irony is while a red state city might be less likely to get an initial mandate because of their politics they are more likely to get a serious outbreak forcing a mandate so....

Re: Does something around McCollum for Kyrie make sense?

Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 4:01 pm
by TheNetsFan
SharpyShuffle wrote:Portland seems like the kind of city that could enact a vaccine mandate in a few months.

If the Nets send Kyrie anywhere, it needs to be somewhere like New Orleans, who is a little bit desperate to push for success and who are in a very red state.

I agree with this. People are wrongfully assuming he has a no trade value. When healthy & engaged he's a border-line top 10 player in the league coming off a season that he achieved the extremely rare 50/40/90 shooting splits. It's only been achieved 13 times by 9 different players. While his actions hamper his trade value (although his IG rant stating that he will not retire or give up the game should help is value a bit), there will always be treadmill teams willing to gamble on a top talent to help them take the next step, whether that is into the playoffs, winning a playoff series or into contention.

Re: Does something around McCollum for Kyrie make sense?

Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 4:48 pm
by Resistance
It is sort of the wrong time in the NBA season for some teams to get a major trade done such as with Irving to New Orleans

New Orleans

Brandon Ingram..............$29,467,800
Jonas Valanciunas...........$14,000,000
Josh Hart.....................$12,000,000
Devonte' Graham............$11,000,000
Zion Williamson.............$10,733,400
Tomas Satoransky...........$10,000,000
Jaxson Hayes.................$5,348,280
Garrett Temple..............$4,910,000
Kira Lewis Jr.................$3,822,240
Nickeil Alexander-Walker..$3,261,480
Trey Murphy III..............$3,053,760
Willy Hernangomez.........$2,327,220
Didi Louzada.................$1,786,878
Wenyen Gabriel.............$1,762,796
Herbert Jones...............$1,700,000
Naji Marshall.................$1,517,981



Deadlines:

    12/15/21 — No-trade restrictions lift on Willy Hernangomez, Didi Louzada, Devonte’ Graham and Garrett Temple.
    1/7/22 — Wenyen Gabriel’s $1,762,796 guarantees for 2021-22.
    1/15/22 — No-trade restriction lifts on Josh Hart.

After removing players that can't be traded until mid December at the earliest:

Brandon Ingram..............$29,467,800
Jonas Valanciunas...........$14,000,000
Zion Williamson.............$10,733,400
Tomas Satoransky...........$10,000,000
Jaxson Hayes.................$5,348,280
Kira Lewis Jr.................$3,822,240
Nickeil Alexander-Walker..$3,261,480
Trey Murphy III..............$3,053,760
Willy Hernangomez.........$2,327,220
Wenyen Gabriel.............$1,762,796
Herbert Jones...............$1,700,000
Naji Marshall.................$1,517,981


Irving -- $35,328,700

$35,328,700 - $100,000 = $35,228,700
$35,228,700 / 1.25 = $28,182,960

Prove
$28,182,960.00 * 1.25 = $35,228,700
$35,228,700 + $100,000 $35,328,700


Stacking/aggregating/consolidating many cheap players to get enough outgoing salary is truly awkward. So JV + Satoransky would appear to be the basis for an Irving trade. That would leave Hayes and Hernangomez as the Centers and I don't have New Orleans putting themselves into that situation.

Re: Does something around McCollum for Kyrie make sense?

Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 4:52 pm
by Slacktard
RoyceDa59 wrote:I really don’t think Kyrie is in a position to be traded.

No one is taking on that risk.


Yea. I don't see any trade willing to trade for him.

Even if you had a team allowed to talk to Kyrie and find out he was willing to go there and play and not retire. Why would that team have any faith in Kyrie actually not suddenly changing his mind after the trade happened?

Re: Does something around McCollum for Kyrie make sense?

Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 6:06 pm
by TheNetsFan
Slacktard wrote:
RoyceDa59 wrote:I really don’t think Kyrie is in a position to be traded.

No one is taking on that risk.


Yea. I don't see any trade willing to trade for him.

Even if you had a team allowed to talk to Kyrie and find out he was willing to go there and play and not retire. Why would that team have any faith in Kyrie actually not suddenly changing his mind after the trade happened?

Kyrie is not retiring. He said as much in his IG rant yesterday & in calling Nick Wright (who "broke" that news) a puppet.

Re: Does something around McCollum for Kyrie make sense?

Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 6:09 pm
by Nate the Great
SharpyShuffle wrote:
Texas Chuck wrote:
SharpyShuffle wrote:Portland seems like the kind of city that could enact a vaccine mandate in a few months.

If the Nets send Kyrie anywhere, it needs to be somewhere like New Orleans, who is a little bit desperate to push for success and who are in a very red state.


Portland seems like the kind of city far less likely to need one....

But man am I tired of all this political division on this board. There is some relevance in those cities that have mandates for us to discuss the impact at least in regards to Kyrie specifically. But we had like 40 trade Wiggins to Texas threads before he got the vax because that state is red which led to just horrible trades because that was literally the only justification.

It's lazy.
Call it what you like, the fact is that the Covid situation is fluid, and teams are unlikely to trade for player who may be effectively taken away from them a few months down the line of a new variant emerges or whatever. Of course when discussing a player who is only (hypothetically) up for trade because of his vaccine status, the possibility of vaccine mandates is a key factor.

And the Pelicans ARE a (relatively) likely suitor for him IMO. GM who already worked with him. We know they tried hard to sign an elite PG (CP3 and Lowry - granted a different archetype of PG, but still Kyrie would instantly provide a massive upgrade in the position). Zion getting antsy, and the team seem to be short-termist in their thinking anyway. I don't think something like Kyrie for BI is illogical all.

I think that if I gave you the sentence "After a disappointing start and with their GM under pressure to make the playoffs, ______ executed an ambitious and controversial trade for Kyrie Irving", your brain will have "The New Orleans Pelicans" as one of the first options to fill in the blank.


On the other hand, states with fewer vaccine regulations also have more Covid cases (not surprisingly). The five states with NBA teams with the most recent infections per capita are

Tennessee
Florida
Utah
Louisiana
Oklahoma

(Source https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109004/coronavirus-covid19-cases-rate-us-americans-by-state/)

Playing in an antivax area would put Kyrie at greater risk of exposure, which he could pass on to other people within the organization. Even vaccinated people, if exposed to Covid in close quarters, would be in some degree of danger. A team like the Pelicans might view that as an unnecessary risk.

Re: Does something around McCollum for Kyrie make sense?

Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 7:33 pm
by R-DAWG
Brooklyn needs a more complete player as the third star. In a lot of ways, vaccine and availability excluded, McCollum is a step down for Brooklyn from Kyrie. In fact, one can make an argument that a Covington + Powell package is better on court for Brooklyn than McCollum.

The one for one swap that makes sense for both teams, but likely wont happen, is Jrue Holiday for Kyrie. Milwaukee won last year in spite of having an elite perimeter shot creator and Brooklyn would benefit from having an elite defender like Holiday who has proven he can be the third option on a championship team.

Re: Does something around McCollum for Kyrie make sense?

Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 8:09 pm
by JRoy
R-DAWG wrote:Brooklyn needs a more complete player as the third star. In a lot of ways, vaccine and availability excluded, McCollum is a step down for Brooklyn from Kyrie. In fact, one can make an argument that a Covington + Powell package is better on court for Brooklyn than McCollum.

The one for one swap that makes sense for both teams, but likely wont happen, is Jrue Holiday for Kyrie. Milwaukee won last year in spite of having an elite perimeter shot creator and Brooklyn would benefit from having an elite defender like Holiday who has proven he can be the third option on a championship team.



Baffling to me that anyone could think Kyrie returns value under these conditions.

GM career ending risk if/when he flakes.

Re: Does something around McCollum for Kyrie make sense?

Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 8:51 pm
by PrinceAli
Aside from the fact that anybody taking on Kyrie right now is pretty risky, I don’t see the fit with Kyrie and Dame

2 ball dominant guys who play the same position. Doesn’t fix Portlands main issue of defense either

I think any trade involving CJ should be bringing back a defensive wing. Like a Jerami Grant or something

Re: Does something around McCollum for Kyrie make sense?

Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2021 12:37 am
by gswhoops
Yeah Kyrie is untradable at this point, at least if you want anything worthwhile in return.