MIN/NYK

[minimus]

Obi Toppin, Jericho Sims for Jake Layman, Jaylen Nowell, MIN 2022 lottery protected FRP, MIN 2022 SRP

Why for MIN: Wolves have void at PF and could use physical player at C. Toppin and Sims are promising young bigs
Why for NYK: both Toppin and Sims are playing limited minutes behind Randle, Mitchel, Gibson (Noel). So getting an FRP pick make some sense for NYK. Nowell has potential as comboguard.

[eminence]

A lotto protected 1st for Toppin is probably fine value (maybe top 10 or something), but directionally seems off for the Knicks, I don't really get the point for them.

[FutureKnicksGM]

I don't think another 2022 pick would be wanted (this draft looks pretty average, and we already have some young players waiting in the wings for their chance next year in Grimes, Deuce, Rokas playing overseas). Maybe a 2023 pick with lower, and descending protections.

But Obi's looking good, is rotation worthy now, and with his improved D, playing some minutes with Randle should be viable against teams without a dominant 5 man. I doubt the real FO would look to trade him at this point.

[Mike lorenzo]

I don't think another 2022 pick would be wanted (this draft looks pretty average, and we already have some young players waiting in the wings for their chance next year in Grimes, Deuce, Rokas playing overseas). Maybe a 2023 pick with lower, and descending protections.

But Obi's looking good, is rotation worthy now, and with his improved D, playing some minutes with Randle should be viable against teams without a dominant 5 man. I doubt the real FO would look to trade him at this point.

irrelevant .. I watch Rokas play regularly ... the boy was going to be really good

[winforlose]

I don't think another 2022 pick would be wanted (this draft looks pretty average, and we already have some young players waiting in the wings for their chance next year in Grimes, Deuce, Rokas playing overseas). Maybe a 2023 pick with lower, and descending protections.

But Obi's looking good, is rotation worthy now, and with his improved D, playing some minutes with Randle should be viable against teams without a dominant 5 man. I doubt the real FO would look to trade him at this point.

I don’t watch the Knicks and am curious what you guys need at the moment?

[minimus]

I don't think another 2022 pick would be wanted (this draft looks pretty average, and we already have some young players waiting in the wings for their chance next year in Grimes, Deuce, Rokas playing overseas). Maybe a 2023 pick with lower, and descending protections.

Thank you for insight about 2022 draft, although I am kind of confused about draft projected strength/depth. Many believed that 2020 was weak, without stars, and 2021 draft with multiple franchise stars in Cade, Mobley, Green, Suggs. But right now Edwards and Melo are clearly better. I think it is more about scouting and development.

P.S. Agree about NYK roster, Thibs loves big bodies in the paint.

[KnickFan33]

I don't think another 2022 pick would be wanted (this draft looks pretty average, and we already have some young players waiting in the wings for their chance next year in Grimes, Deuce, Rokas playing overseas). Maybe a 2023 pick with lower, and descending protections.

But Obi's looking good, is rotation worthy now, and with his improved D, playing some minutes with Randle should be viable against teams without a dominant 5 man. I doubt the real FO would look to trade him at this point.

I don’t watch the Knicks and am curious what you guys need at the moment?

I'd really like a backup two way 2/3 that can be effective off ball.

[cgf]

A lotto protected 1st for Toppin is probably fine value (maybe top 10 or something), but directionally seems off for the Knicks, I don't really get the point for them.

Especially not with Obi showing nice progress this season, and Toppin-Randle lineups actually being viable so far (in limited time).

[cgf]

I don't think another 2022 pick would be wanted (this draft looks pretty average, and we already have some young players waiting in the wings for their chance next year in Grimes, Deuce, Rokas playing overseas). Maybe a 2023 pick with lower, and descending protections.

But Obi's looking good, is rotation worthy now, and with his improved D, playing some minutes with Randle should be viable against teams without a dominant 5 man. I doubt the real FO would look to trade him at this point.

I don’t watch the Knicks and am curious what you guys need at the moment?

I'd really like a backup two way 2/3 that can be effective off ball.

That would be nice, but I like that Thibs can play the hothand between Fournier, Burks, & IQ next to Mitch, Julius, RJ, & Kemba/Derrick.

So for me, it would be finding a more longterm solution for the PG spot than Kemba...while seeing what happens with Grimes, who could end up being that two-way off-ball wing behind RJ...though that might not be something you do until the offseason.

[SmokeyPaw]

I'm not sure what problem this fixes for NY. Toppin is the best player in the deal and a rotation player for NY while Nowell and Layman are non rotation players in minny. With NY competing for the playoffs I dont see how this helps them.

[KnickFan33]

I don’t watch the Knicks and am curious what you guys need at the moment?

I'd really like a backup two way 2/3 that can be effective off ball.

That would be nice, but I like that Thibs can play the hothand between Fournier, Burks, & IQ next to Mitch, Julius, RJ, & Kemba/Derrick.

So for me, it would be finding a more longterm solution for the PG spot than Kemba...while seeing what happens with Grimes, who could end up being that two-way off-ball wing behind RJ...though that might not be something you do until the offseason.

Agree with needing a long term solution at PG, but we don't have the assets to immediately solve that problem.

I see Grimes as a potential combo guard, but Thibs isn't going to play him any time soon. More reason to try and consolidate Burks and Quickly into another wing.

Suppose I'll leave it at that since the thread is getting derailed.

[cgf]

I'd really like a backup two way 2/3 that can be effective off ball.

That would be nice, but I like that Thibs can play the hothand between Fournier, Burks, & IQ next to Mitch, Julius, RJ, & Kemba/Derrick.

So for me, it would be finding a more longterm solution for the PG spot than Kemba...while seeing what happens with Grimes, who could end up being that two-way off-ball wing behind RJ...though that might not be something you do until the offseason.

Agree with needing a long term solution at PG, but we don't have the assets to immediately solve that problem.

I see Grimes as a potential combo guard, but Thibs isn't going to play him any time soon. More reason to try and consolidate Burks and Quickly into another wing.

Suppose I'll leave it at that since the thread is getting derailed.

Not right now, but I do think that's something we should address at the deadline or this offseason and should be our priority on the trade market. Sexton is the example I bring up most, but he's just a prototype for the kind of target I think we should get.


Thibs has been perfectly happy to play kids who play hard & defend when they are ready. He has no qualms about leaning heavily on RJ & Mitch, Obi is getting more of a chance now that he's starting to figure things out, and last season IQ averaged almost 20 minutes a game...though his poor form & the improved alternatives have cut that down so far this season. Even Knox got a shot from Thibs, before lazying his way out of the rotation.

So I'm skeptical that Thibs will refuse to play Grimes when injuries hit, if Grimes is ready.

[Knickfan1982]

Obi Toppin, Jericho Sims for Jake Layman, Jaylen Nowell, MIN 2022 lottery protected FRP, MIN 2022 SRP

Why for MIN: Wolves have void at PF and could use physical player at C. Toppin and Sims are promising young bigs
Why for NYK: both Toppin and Sims are playing limited minutes behind Randle, Mitchel, Gibson (Noel). So getting an FRP pick make some sense for NYK. Nowell has potential as comboguard.

I don't like it. First of all, what kind of protections are we talking about. Do we get the 2023 unprotected when the Twolves finish in the lottery as expected? Secondly, the answer is just no anyway. Although its an extremely small sample size Toppin has shown flashes of play that make his bust label seem premature. Sims is raw but the dude is super athletic and I like what we have seen from him thus far. I also think we have better guard options than Nowell.

[FutureKnicksGM]

I don't think another 2022 pick would be wanted (this draft looks pretty average, and we already have some young players waiting in the wings for their chance next year in Grimes, Deuce, Rokas playing overseas). Maybe a 2023 pick with lower, and descending protections.

But Obi's looking good, is rotation worthy now, and with his improved D, playing some minutes with Randle should be viable against teams without a dominant 5 man. I doubt the real FO would look to trade him at this point.

I don’t watch the Knicks and am curious what you guys need at the moment?

Imo what we need is a star in the backcourt, who can be the primary option, moving Randle to a 2nd option. Obviously not many of those guys are available, so hopefully we can keep our assets to when a player of that caliber hits the market.

In terms of moves around the edges / rotation upgrades, definitely need better perimeter defense.

[cgf]

I don't think another 2022 pick would be wanted (this draft looks pretty average, and we already have some young players waiting in the wings for their chance next year in Grimes, Deuce, Rokas playing overseas). Maybe a 2023 pick with lower, and descending protections.

But Obi's looking good, is rotation worthy now, and with his improved D, playing some minutes with Randle should be viable against teams without a dominant 5 man. I doubt the real FO would look to trade him at this point.

I don’t watch the Knicks and am curious what you guys need at the moment?

Imo what we need is a star in the backcourt, who can be the primary option, moving Randle to a 2nd option. Obviously not many of those guys are available, so hopefully we can keep our assets to when a player of that caliber hits the market.

In terms of moves around the edges / rotation upgrades, definitely need better perimeter defense.

This is why I like a two-step solution where we first go after someone like Sexton to replace Kemba moving forward; while trying to keep enough of our powder dry for us to be able to put together an enticing Sexton / Barrett / Randle +++ package for a top tier superstar, who could let whichever two were left slide into those 2nd & 3rd option slots that they are likely to be best suited for, in the future.

...although with how hard all three work on their games in the offseason and the coaching they are/would-be getting, I wouldn't be completely shocked if one of that trio ended up turning into a legit title caliber 1st option eventually; if only for a handful of years at their peak. Though I (obviously) wouldn't expect it and would still plan around needing our version of DeMar++ for Kawhi, with one of them.

[dukeknicksirish]

If anybody is making a move to the Knicks, it's KAT (or whoever his account hacker was that liked "#FREEKAT"). lol but for real, the CAA / Kentucky love runs deep in the Mecca.

[R-DAWG]

No reason for the Knicks to trade Toppin right now. He played well at the end of last year and end in the playoffs and has started off this year strong. Now the fit isn't great with Randle, which limits his minutes, so I would be opposed to a Toppin + other stuff for an upgrade (ie: Toppin + the CHA pick for a rookie scale wing who has proven a little more than Toppin), but to trade him for a future pick right now makes no sense.

[FutureKnicksGM]

I don’t watch the Knicks and am curious what you guys need at the moment?

Imo what we need is a star in the backcourt, who can be the primary option, moving Randle to a 2nd option. Obviously not many of those guys are available, so hopefully we can keep our assets to when a player of that caliber hits the market.

In terms of moves around the edges / rotation upgrades, definitely need better perimeter defense.

This is why I like a two-step solution where we first go after someone like Sexton to replace Kemba moving forward; while trying to keep enough of our powder dry for us to be able to put together an enticing Sexton / Barrett / Randle +++ package for a top tier superstar, who could let whichever two were left slide into those 2nd & 3rd option slots that they are likely to be best suited for, in the future.

...although with how hard all three work on their games in the offseason and the coaching they are/would-be getting, I wouldn't be completely shocked if one of that trio ended up turning into a legit title caliber 1st option eventually; if only for a handful of years at their peak. Though I (obviously) wouldn't expect it and would still plan around needing our version of DeMar++ for Kawhi, with one of them.

Hmm I get that logic - I'm just not a Sexton believer. I think he is a 6th man at best, who's probably gonna get a $20 mill deal, which may not be that attractive. Rather save all the powder.

[cgf]

Imo what we need is a star in the backcourt, who can be the primary option, moving Randle to a 2nd option. Obviously not many of those guys are available, so hopefully we can keep our assets to when a player of that caliber hits the market.

In terms of moves around the edges / rotation upgrades, definitely need better perimeter defense.

This is why I like a two-step solution where we first go after someone like Sexton to replace Kemba moving forward; while trying to keep enough of our powder dry for us to be able to put together an enticing Sexton / Barrett / Randle +++ package for a top tier superstar, who could let whichever two were left slide into those 2nd & 3rd option slots that they are likely to be best suited for, in the future.

...although with how hard all three work on their games in the offseason and the coaching they are/would-be getting, I wouldn't be completely shocked if one of that trio ended up turning into a legit title caliber 1st option eventually; if only for a handful of years at their peak. Though I (obviously) wouldn't expect it and would still plan around needing our version of DeMar++ for Kawhi, with one of them.

Hmm I get that logic - I'm just not a Sexton believer. I think he is a 6th man at best, who's probably gonna get a $20 mill deal, which may not be that attractive. Rather save all the powder.

I can get that. If Julius & RJ didn't give us so much playmaking from the frontcourt, Sexton wouldn't be my favorite either. But with the offense running through Randle & Barrett, I'm fine with a score-first guard like Sexton or Kemba.

But like I said, need not be Sexton specifically, he's just the guy who I think is most likely to be available at a price that left us with enough ammo for that next trade...while being talented enough, having a very Thibs-y work ethic, and sitting in the right age range to grow further alongside Julius & RJ until that final big move came together for us; so he's my go to example.

In an ideal world I'd rather have someone with more playmaking, like his team-mates Garland, but with targets like that we could run into issues with pricetags & availability...as teams just don't sell dynamic guards who can create equally well for themselves & others, very often. And I'd rather use IQ, a FRP or two to be paid off asap, and cap-filler to get someone like Sexton and prepare for that final move; than burning IQ, Obi, picks beyond next spring, and more, to still end up a big trade away from really contending.

So unless we can land someone who could lead a title caliber big 3 with Randle & Barrett, I'd rather tackle that final ascent in multiple moves.