Find OKC a Big Man

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The-Power
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Re: Find OKC a Big Man 

Post#21 » by The-Power » Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:36 pm

Appreciate the response, eminence!

eminence wrote:A) I think not having to introduce Wiseman into the rotation probably does make us better this year. Team is playing spectacularly currently, why fiddle with it by introducing a young big who was (unsurprisingly) not even close to ready for primetime last season?

I am in the camp that believes that if Wiseman hurts us this year, it's because he's being misused – either in a wrong role or simply because he plays too much. As you mention, the team is playing spectacularly and there is no need to play Wiseman minutes that would hurt the team.

I do believe he brings something to the table that we can really use: a lob threat and roll man on offense, and a big body on defense. Whether this is enough to not hurt the team due to his deficiencies this year is a valid question. But I still don't see how not having him as an option this year is better than having him; that's just robbing us of one option without any added direct benefit.

eminence wrote:B) It hopefully makes us better in the future when we can pick up some new prospects around the young Poole/Moody/Kuminga core (who probably won't all be core, but I can hope) instead of having a fairly high paid big that's been underdeveloped to that point (in terms of playtime) who is himself no sure thing. There's a danger we're currently on pace to have to pay Wiseman before we really know who he is, which is not great.

I'm skeptical because these new young players once again start from scratch. Just look at Moody: he's not any more ready to play in the NBA than Wiseman, really, and he has a pretty clear profile and projected role already. Kuminga also only helps in spurts, and because we don't need him to do stuff he's not capable of (and he still has rough nights). Year 3 Wiseman should definitely further along in terms of helping us win than any Rookie we could reasonably draft.

The point about the contract I understand, to some extent, but I wouldn't worry about it until at least his third year. It's similar to Poole who I also didn't worry about at the end of last year because we don't know yet if he's worth being paid for us – we should know by the end of this year and even if not, we can always wait another year and see if we want to match. I understand that you don't want to be in the same position with your second overall pick and either risk losing him for nothing or having to pay him more than you're comfortable with, but at least until the third year I don't feel any rush to trade Rookies due to upcoming extensions.

eminence wrote:D) My general feeling on Wiseman and his value as a prospect - I currently value Wiseman as approximately worth a ~8 pick (depending on draft). Lots of impressive physical attributes, some hopeful level of baseline skill, but awareness in general seems like a negative, and if the skill level doesn't ever take a jump it'll only distract from what he should be doing on the court.

I think that's reasonable and if on draft day there's a player on the board at 8 that we love, and Wiseman has not erased most doubts about him at the end of the season then this can be re-visited. I just don't see the point in doing it now; the risk of keeping him while his value drops isn't enough for me to trade for an uncertain pick, without a better player coming back – especially since Wiseman could also look much improved and a lot more useful, and either increase in trade value or carve out an important role with the Warriors.

Anyway, that's now more off-topic than it probably should, so apologies for that. Bottom line is that this Warriors fan would not advocate for the proposed Wiseman trade.
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Re: Find OKC a Big Man 

Post#22 » by bondom34 » Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:38 pm

I'd be interested to see if they could get a flyer on a guy like PJ Washington for a reasonable price, or (if the Knicks had something else in mind) Robinson. Though the latter seems pretty doubtful. Not really sure I'd be too interested other names mentioned.

Guessing they go into 23 FA or if they look to trade a RFA is more likely (which in this case isn't Robinson either).
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Re: Find OKC a Big Man 

Post#23 » by Devilanche » Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:00 am

The-Power wrote:Appreciate the response, eminence!

eminence wrote:A) I think not having to introduce Wiseman into the rotation probably does make us better this year. Team is playing spectacularly currently, why fiddle with it by introducing a young big who was (unsurprisingly) not even close to ready for primetime last season?

I am in the camp that believes that if Wiseman hurts us this year, it's because he's being misused – either in a wrong role or simply because he plays too much. As you mention, the team is playing spectacularly and there is no need to play Wiseman minutes that would hurt the team.

I do believe he brings something to the table that we can really use: a lob threat and roll man on offense, and a big body on defense. Whether this is enough to not hurt the team due to his deficiencies this year is a valid question. But I still don't see how not having him as an option this year is better than having him; that's just robbing us of one option without any added direct benefit.

eminence wrote:B) It hopefully makes us better in the future when we can pick up some new prospects around the young Poole/Moody/Kuminga core (who probably won't all be core, but I can hope) instead of having a fairly high paid big that's been underdeveloped to that point (in terms of playtime) who is himself no sure thing. There's a danger we're currently on pace to have to pay Wiseman before we really know who he is, which is not great.

I'm skeptical because these new young players once again start from scratch. Just look at Moody: he's not any more ready to play in the NBA than Wiseman, really, and he has a pretty clear profile and projected role already. Kuminga also only helps in spurts, and because we don't need him to do stuff he's not capable of (and he still has rough nights). Year 3 Wiseman should definitely further along in terms of helping us win than any Rookie we could reasonably draft.

The point about the contract I understand, to some extent, but I wouldn't worry about it until at least his third year. It's similar to Poole who I also didn't worry about at the end of last year because we don't know yet if he's worth being paid for us – we should know by the end of this year and even if not, we can always wait another year and see if we want to match. I understand that you don't want to be in the same position with your second overall pick and either risk losing him for nothing or having to pay him more than you're comfortable with, but at least until the third year I don't feel any rush to trade Rookies due to upcoming extensions.

eminence wrote:D) My general feeling on Wiseman and his value as a prospect - I currently value Wiseman as approximately worth a ~8 pick (depending on draft). Lots of impressive physical attributes, some hopeful level of baseline skill, but awareness in general seems like a negative, and if the skill level doesn't ever take a jump it'll only distract from what he should be doing on the court.

I think that's reasonable and if on draft day there's a player on the board at 8 that we love, and Wiseman has not erased most doubts about him at the end of the season then this can be re-visited. I just don't see the point in doing it now; the risk of keeping him while his value drops isn't enough for me to trade for an uncertain pick, without a better player coming back – especially since Wiseman could also look much improved and a lot more useful, and either increase in trade value or carve out an important role with the Warriors.

Anyway, that's now more off-topic than it probably should, so apologies for that. Bottom line is that this Warriors fan would not advocate for the proposed Wiseman trade.


I don’t think it’s off topic as OKC probably could do with a big man and they want them early enough so we can develop them . Unless we are getting back a vet where we trade favors and it cost just a second or so just to develop rest of roster

Powell/ saric - if minimal cost / asset I can see how they change our asset abit

Any other rookie - hope they are at least under contract until next year.


Wiseman - depends what he shown/ doesn’t for the rest of the year . If he underperform , the team holding on to 8th-10th pick might just prefer picking up a fresh rookie scale contract instead and probably only late lotto teams are interested (12-16th type)
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Re: Find OKC a Big Man 

Post#24 » by tcheco » Wed Nov 24, 2021 2:12 pm

TGW wrote:
tcheco wrote:Sengun for the Detroit protected first? :-D


That would be awesome for the Thunder. Sengun would thrive in OKC.


Still blows my mind that they traded him aways for... MORE PICKS

Not that he will be a sure fire star, but they have the playing time to give to young players and no young centers... and Sengun falls to them and... they trade him. Weird
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Re: Find OKC a Big Man 

Post#25 » by b33nine » Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:45 pm

What is it that OKC would be looking for in a big? I could see a justification from Portland to trade Nurk for Dort and Favors, but I don't see the reasoning for OKC to do it.
Dort becomes the on-ball defender Portland needs, Favors probably fits a backup role behind Nance at the 5 (and possibly Zeller depending on matchups). OKC is beyond confusing to me though because it doesn't really seem like they have a timeline for when they're gonna start chasing wins, and trading for a player like Nurk will definitely fill a need, but they don't really want to win do they?
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Re: Find OKC a Big Man 

Post#26 » by Balkman32 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:41 pm

OKC ain't trading Dort & they ain't trading an unprotected first.
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Re: Find OKC a Big Man 

Post#27 » by gswhoops » Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:24 pm

Valancuinas?

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