If The Kings Had A Fire Sale...

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If The Kings Had A Fire Sale... 

Post#1 » by NYG » Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:58 am

I know reports are suggesting the Kings want to cling to play-in tourney to get into the playoffs. What if they realized in such a dry trade market where the best guys after Simmons are Myles Turner and Jerami Grant that they could get a lot of rebuilding value for their guys?

Make your best rebuilding offers for Harrison Barnes, De'Aaron Fox and Buddy Hield.
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Re: If The Kings Had A Fire Sale... 

Post#2 » by MKWB » Thu Jan 13, 2022 4:27 am

What if Pelicans swoop in with a pick-heavy overpay offer for Fox. Something like 5 unprotected 1sts (including the valuable '24 Lakers' 1st with option to defer to '25), plus Kings' choice of Pels' rookie-scale prospects: Murphy, Hayes, NAW, Kira. Satoransky included for salary matching, and Kings can include, cut, or send some minimum/end of roster players to a 3rd team.

Is any other team coming close to that? Gives them a clean slate to build around Haliburton / Mitchell backcourt, with the built-in excuse of "We got a rebuilding offer we couldn't refuse."

Here an example form in fanspo trade checker:
https://fanspo.com/nba/s/pelicans/trades/VPSUoV4nSfAoOj/pelifox

Pelicans get:

Fox, Ramsey, Woodard, D.Jones


Kings get:

future picks, all unprotected:
LAL '23, NOP '23 pick swap, LAL '24 with option to defer to '25, NOP '24, NOP '25 pick swap, MIL '25

players: Murphy, Hayes, NAW, Kira, Sato (expiring salary match)


Kings proceed to trade Barnes, Hield, maybe Holmes to other teams for assets. Start rebuild with

Holmes/ Hayes
Bagley/ Metu
Murphy/
Mitchell / NAW
Haliburton / Kira

+ their lotto pick in '22, all their own future picks and a whole lot of future Lakers, Pels, MIL picks and/or swaps.

Pelicans put their chips in with core of:

Jonas/ WHG
Zion / Clark
Ingram/ Hart
Herb / Temple
Fox / Graham

Great 7-man rotation, nice big 3, can add more shooters along the way.
Fox gradually improves his shot with top shooting assistant coach Fred Vinson.
Championship ensues. Or at least, a lot of fun basketball with a young complimentary core.
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Re: If The Kings Had A Fire Sale... 

Post#3 » by psman2 » Thu Jan 13, 2022 4:33 am

MKWB wrote:What if Pelicans swoop in with an pick-overpay offer for Fox. Something like 5 unprotected 1sts (including the valuable '24 Lakers' 1st with option to defer to '25), plus Kings' choice of Pels' rookie-scale prospects: Murphy, Hayes, NAW, Kira. Satoransky included for salary matching, and Kings can include, cut, or send some minimum/end of roster players to a 3rd team.

Is any other team coming close to that? Gives them a clean slate to build around Haliburton / Mitchell backcourt, with the built-in excuse of "We got a rebuilding offer we couldn't refuse."

Here an example form in fanspo trade checker:
https://fanspo.com/nba/s/pelicans/trades/VPSUoV4nSfAoOj/pelifox

Pelicans get:

Fox, Ramsey, Woodard, D.Jones


Kings get:

future picks, all unprotected:
LAL '23, NOP '23 pick swap, LAL '24 with option to defer to '25, NOP '24, NOP '25 pick swap, MIL '25

players: Murphy, Hayes, NAW, Kira, Sato (expiring salary match)


Kings proceed to trade Barnes, Hield, maybe Holmes to other teams for assets. Start rebuild with

Holmes/ Hayes
Bagley/ Metu
Murphy/
Mitchell / NAW
Haliburton / Kira

+ their lotto pick in '22, all their own future picks and a whole lot of future Lakers, Pels, MIL picks and/or swaps.

Pelicans put their chips in with core of:

Jonas/ WHG
Zion / Clark
Ingram/ Hart
Herb / Temple
Fox / Graham

Great 7-man rotation, nice big 3, can add more shooters along the way.
Fox gradually improves his shot with top shooting assistant coach Fred Vinson.
Championship ensues. Or at least, a lot of fun basketball with a young complimentary core.


Seems like a lot to pay for a point guard sporting a .526 TS this season. I got Fox's value closer to neutral than I got him worth this but if you are willing to pay it, I cannot see SAC turning this Herschel Walker type trade down.
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Re: If The Kings Had A Fire Sale... 

Post#4 » by MKWB » Thu Jan 13, 2022 4:44 am

psman2 wrote:Seems like a lot to pay for a point guard sporting a .526 TS this season. I got Fox's value closer to neutral than I got him worth this but if you are willing to pay it, I cannot see SAC turning this Herschel Walker type trade down.


You're right, it's definitely an overpay. Probably lesser offer would be able to convince the Kings' GM to trade Fox to the Pels, but this type of overpay could be eventually what it takes after negotiation.

Of course, Pels could just sit on their pick stash and wait for a better fitting star-ish player to become available. But this is the kind of high risk gamble they could take on a player who's recent poor play could make him available. Especially for a franchise who has trouble attaining and retaining high level players. They would hope that with better fitting talent alongside him, and 2 legit stars, and reworking his shot mechanics/confidence with Vinson-- that Fox would be worth the risk. And the key part with this, is they would still be able to keep their top core players who've built a high chemistry together this season.
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Re: If The Kings Had A Fire Sale... 

Post#5 » by patman66 » Thu Jan 13, 2022 5:17 am

I would like the celts to get hield.

Horford, Juancho for TT and Hield, gets them out of 35 mill.
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Re: If The Kings Had A Fire Sale... 

Post#6 » by RipPizzaGuy » Thu Jan 13, 2022 5:42 am

patman66 wrote:I would like the celts to get hield.

Horford, Juancho for TT and Hield, gets them out of 35 mill.
I don't think sac has an interest in horford.

Can Celtics match using hernangomez + nesmith + Schroder? Maybe Schroder being routed back to okc

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Re: If The Kings Had A Fire Sale... 

Post#7 » by Bentley1225 » Thu Jan 13, 2022 6:18 am

Barnes is at his peak trade value. He's turning 30 in May, has $18.4M cap hit next season. I would look at get an expiring, 2022 1st and potentially more picks out of the market.

I like the Suns:
Barnes + Ramsey
for
Saric + Payne + Nader + 2023 2nd + 2024 1st + 2025 2nd
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Re: If The Kings Had A Fire Sale... 

Post#8 » by Scoot McGroot » Thu Jan 13, 2022 2:13 pm

patman66 wrote:I would like the celts to get hield.

Horford, Juancho for TT and Hield, gets them out of 35 mill.


Tristan can’t be traded back to the Celtics this year, legally speaking.
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Re: If The Kings Had A Fire Sale... 

Post#9 » by Troubadour » Thu Jan 13, 2022 2:35 pm

I really struggle with anything more than Dragic and a couple 2nds for Buddy.
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Re: If The Kings Had A Fire Sale... 

Post#10 » by RipPizzaGuy » Thu Jan 13, 2022 6:09 pm

Bentley1225 wrote:Barnes is at his peak trade value. He's turning 30 in May, has $18.4M cap hit next season. I would look at get an expiring, 2022 1st and potentially more picks out of the market.

I like the Suns:
Barnes + Ramsey
for
Saric + Payne + Nader + 2023 2nd + 2024 1st + 2025 2nd


Yea thats surely not the package id be looking at. Saric has an extra year, Payne has no value in Sac even though I like him. So its salary + a 1st 2 years out from a good team. I think we can ultimately do better.

I wanted to move him for Gallo/Reddish although that ship has sailed.

Still think Chicago is a great fit for him.

Boston makes sense

Atlanta could still make some sense.
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Re: If The Kings Had A Fire Sale... 

Post#11 » by RipPizzaGuy » Thu Jan 13, 2022 6:10 pm

Troubadour wrote:I really struggle with anything more than Dragic and a couple 2nds for Buddy.


Keep the 2nds, I do it straight up.
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Re: If The Kings Had A Fire Sale... 

Post#12 » by Troubadour » Thu Jan 13, 2022 6:43 pm

RipPizzaGuy wrote:
Troubadour wrote:I really struggle with anything more than Dragic and a couple 2nds for Buddy.


Keep the 2nds, I do it straight up.


How bad is Buddy defensively? Because the shooting is pretty impressive the few games I've watched and it makes it hard to see much else.
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Re: If The Kings Had A Fire Sale... 

Post#13 » by RipPizzaGuy » Thu Jan 13, 2022 6:49 pm

Troubadour wrote:
RipPizzaGuy wrote:
Troubadour wrote:I really struggle with anything more than Dragic and a couple 2nds for Buddy.


Keep the 2nds, I do it straight up.


How bad is Buddy defensively? Because the shooting is pretty impressive the few games I've watched and it makes it hard to see much else.



Id say as a man defender hes not bad. But he overplays rotations, and gets caught on back doors. More so than that, he can't be tasked with handling the ball. Hes a terrible dribbler and prone to at least a few mistakes per game. He has absolutely shot us into some games this year, but hes also shot us out of a few. His biggest thing is he needs an established role on offense with a good coach. I think Toronto is one of the teams that could put him in a good situation.
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Re: If The Kings Had A Fire Sale... 

Post#14 » by ConSarnit » Thu Jan 13, 2022 7:18 pm

RipPizzaGuy wrote:
Troubadour wrote:
RipPizzaGuy wrote:
Keep the 2nds, I do it straight up.


How bad is Buddy defensively? Because the shooting is pretty impressive the few games I've watched and it makes it hard to see much else.



Id say as a man defender hes not bad. But he overplays rotations, and gets caught on back doors. More so than that, he can't be tasked with handling the ball. Hes a terrible dribbler and prone to at least a few mistakes per game. He has absolutely shot us into some games this year, but hes also shot us out of a few. His biggest thing is he needs an established role on offense with a good coach. I think Toronto is one of the teams that could put him in a good situation.


I don’t really see the fit. We’d have to take on 2.5 years of Buddy at $20m. We already have the better version of him (GTJ).

Didn’t Hield complain about not starting too? No way he starts for the Raptors. Our bench needs offensive creation, which Hield can’t really do at all. This also destroys any cap flexibility we’d hope to have.

If we’re looking at $20m-ish type players the Raps would probably be better to target Eric Gordon or Levert. Both have shorter deals and are better offensive creators.
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Re: If The Kings Had A Fire Sale... 

Post#15 » by RipPizzaGuy » Thu Jan 13, 2022 7:39 pm

ConSarnit wrote:
RipPizzaGuy wrote:
Troubadour wrote:
How bad is Buddy defensively? Because the shooting is pretty impressive the few games I've watched and it makes it hard to see much else.



Id say as a man defender hes not bad. But he overplays rotations, and gets caught on back doors. More so than that, he can't be tasked with handling the ball. Hes a terrible dribbler and prone to at least a few mistakes per game. He has absolutely shot us into some games this year, but hes also shot us out of a few. His biggest thing is he needs an established role on offense with a good coach. I think Toronto is one of the teams that could put him in a good situation.


I don’t really see the fit. We’d have to take on 2.5 years of Buddy at $20m. We already have the better version of him (GTJ).

Didn’t Hield complain about not starting too? No way he starts for the Raptors. Our bench needs offensive creation, which Hield can’t really do at all. This also destroys any cap flexibility we’d hope to have.

If we’re looking at $20m-ish type players the Raps would probably be better to target Eric Gordon or Levert. Both have shorter deals and are better offensive creators.


Ya no disagreement from me here. If shooting isn't your biggest need, Id certainly look elsewhere.
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Re: If The Kings Had A Fire Sale... 

Post#16 » by PELICANSFAN » Thu Jan 13, 2022 7:42 pm

MKWB wrote:What if Pelicans swoop in with a pick-heavy overpay offer for Fox. Something like 5 unprotected 1sts (including the valuable '24 Lakers' 1st with option to defer to '25), plus Kings' choice of Pels' rookie-scale prospects: Murphy, Hayes, NAW, Kira. Satoransky included for salary matching, and Kings can include, cut, or send some minimum/end of roster players to a 3rd team.

Is any other team coming close to that? Gives them a clean slate to build around Haliburton / Mitchell backcourt, with the built-in excuse of "We got a rebuilding offer we couldn't refuse."

Here an example form in fanspo trade checker:
https://fanspo.com/nba/s/pelicans/trades/VPSUoV4nSfAoOj/pelifox

Pelicans get:

Fox, Ramsey, Woodard, D.Jones


Kings get:

future picks, all unprotected:
LAL '23, NOP '23 pick swap, LAL '24 with option to defer to '25, NOP '24, NOP '25 pick swap, MIL '25

players: Murphy, Hayes, NAW, Kira, Sato (expiring salary match)


Kings proceed to trade Barnes, Hield, maybe Holmes to other teams for assets. Start rebuild with

Holmes/ Hayes
Bagley/ Metu
Murphy/
Mitchell / NAW
Haliburton / Kira

+ their lotto pick in '22, all their own future picks and a whole lot of future Lakers, Pels, MIL picks and/or swaps.

Pelicans put their chips in with core of:

Jonas/ WHG
Zion / Clark
Ingram/ Hart
Herb / Temple
Fox / Graham

Great 7-man rotation, nice big 3, can add more shooters along the way.
Fox gradually improves his shot with top shooting assistant coach Fred Vinson.
Championship ensues. Or at least, a lot of fun basketball with a young complimentary core.

What? Are they trading for Fox or Luka? 5 unprotected 1sts and most of our young depth? You are terribly overvaluing Fox.
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Re: If The Kings Had A Fire Sale... 

Post#17 » by MKWB » Thu Jan 13, 2022 8:11 pm

PELICANSFAN wrote:What? Are they trading for Fox or Luka? 5 unprotected 1sts and most of our young depth? You are terribly overvaluing Fox.


Fair enough. Can you give us your version of a realistic trade that the other team would agree to?

What do you think is a realistic offer for Fox that SAC would agree to? Or another player. Or would you like to see Pels keep the young players and have to pay them bigger contracts soon, and use the picks on more young players to develop.
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Re: If The Kings Had A Fire Sale... 

Post#18 » by RipPizzaGuy » Thu Jan 13, 2022 8:48 pm

MKWB wrote:
PELICANSFAN wrote:What? Are they trading for Fox or Luka? 5 unprotected 1sts and most of our young depth? You are terribly overvaluing Fox.


Fair enough. Can you give us your version of a realistic trade that the other team would agree to?

What do you think is a realistic offer for Fox that SAC would agree to? Or another player. Or would you like to see Pels keep the young players and have to pay them bigger contracts soon, and use the picks on more young players to develop.


The problem with a deal like this is that yes in a vacuum its an overpay. But the Lakers picks are weird, and the Pelicans picks would likely not be lotto as Fox/Ingram and a healthy Zion are going to make some noise.

Murphy is unknown, Kira is injured, NAW is meh, and Hayes isn't worth much. So we are talking about 9 lower level assets. Its a ton of assets, but not a single premium asset.

I imagine if Sac was to trade Fox, we would value quality of assets over quantity.
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Re: If The Kings Had A Fire Sale... 

Post#19 » by lordjeff05 » Thu Jan 13, 2022 9:10 pm

I’m so done with Zion drama that I’d trade Z for Fox and a pick cell or a day. Throw in sato and one or two other bench guys for salary
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Re: If The Kings Had A Fire Sale... 

Post#20 » by patman66 » Fri Jan 14, 2022 1:07 am

RipPizzaGuy wrote:
patman66 wrote:I would like the celts to get hield.

Horford, Juancho for TT and Hield, gets them out of 35 mill.
I don't think sac has an interest in horford.

Can Celtics match using hernangomez + nesmith + Schroder? Maybe Schroder being routed back to okc

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Nesmith won't be a part of the deal. The kings are not going to get even a depressed asset like Nesmith him for Hield. I think the kings could get savings but that is it.

I Like Richardson as a player, but bringing him and Schroder aboard just put a roadblock in front of nesmith's development.

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