Norm Powell to NOP for TPE + ____? pick(s)

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Myth
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Re: Norm Powell to NOP for TPE + ____? pick(s) 

Post#21 » by Myth » Sat Jan 15, 2022 12:28 am

lordjeff05 wrote:
Myth wrote:I really don't think Portland will be looking to trade Powell. We are tanking the season, but the direction the team seems to indicate is that they are hoping to obtain a pick and bounce back next season with a healthy Lillard with hopes of being competitive. Portland needs to make decisions regarding Nurkic, Covington, CJ McCollom, and Simons this summer, but Powell is a rare person who fits next to Lillard that is locked into a reasonable multiple year contract. I only see them moving him for an upgrade or if the draft hands us a stud at SG.


My struggle with this is given that you have Anfernee Simons balling, wouldnt the preference be to give him Powell's minutes long term? Even in a win now environment, you use the trade exception and a pick to get another wing. Even without a stud SG in the draft you have two stud SGs already, not counting Powell.

I’d rather have Powell than Simons if it came down to it. Simons next to Lillard is just repeating the Lillard/CJ problem of having 2 guards that can score but neither able to defend. I like Simons as a spark off the bench, but ultimately he may grow out of his role in Portland. If Simons takes a reasonable contract like Powell’s, I’ll gladly accept him as our Jamal Crawford essentially, but beyond that I’ll not be too heartbroken if he walks for more money. I actually think it may be time to capitalize on him before the trade deadline if Portland expects him to get bigger offers, whether it is for an upgrade elsewhere, a more defense oriented bench guard locked into contract, or assets.
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Re: Norm Powell to NOP for TPE + ____? pick(s) 

Post#22 » by Whole Truth » Sat Jan 15, 2022 3:27 am

MKWB wrote:
That's confusing the way you formatted that, but I get what you're aiming for with legally using the TPE.

Still, as has been covered a few times on other BS to NOP threads, that's a big nope. Rich Paul agented disgruntled star who quits on his team-- Griffin and Pels franchise wants no part of that again, especially for a complete non-shooter on a big contract.
Herb Jones and Hart have elevated their defense to a much higher level, and they can actually shoot. The only real position of need for the Pels is PG upgrade and a healthy Zion upgrade.


I couls list several players considered headcases & cancers like Rasheed & Rabdolph prior to being traded that went on to be successful post trade. I also don't believe that Simmons ibehavior is solely due to him but I'm on the outside looking in...

Why I like the potential addition of Simmons.

- Arguably the best perimeter defender in the league
- His versatility. With his size, length, speed & playmaking abilty = lengthy PG, point F & point C in small ball PO scenarios.
- He's a playmaker first with several scoring options in Zion, Jonas & BI.
- Defensive length & playmaking at the 1 pressuring apposing PG's, watched him lock down Morant over the last couple yrs
- Defense speed & playmaking at the 5 in small ball scenarios where his shooting woes are mitigated like GS' Green
- Simmons/Herb/BI/Zion/Jonas is a big lengthy lineup with 2 of the best perimeter defenders, 3 playmakers, 3 players capable from range with Herbs growth in that area.
- Same way Klays 3pt shooting amplified Curry's range, so will Simmons defensive capability amplify Herb's defensive impact. Those 2 pressuring the defense will make either or both Zion & Jonas offense that much more potent.
- His transition game off his & Herb;s defense & switchability. Same way I suggested Siakan in that role when Raptors landed Kawhi & Green before he became a respectable shooter. His speed in transition off their defense put a pressure on teams defenses. Zion, Simmons, BI, Herb, Hart ... terror IMO transitioning from defense to offense.
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Re: Norm Powell to NOP for TPE + ____? pick(s) 

Post#23 » by Whole Truth » Sat Jan 15, 2022 3:34 am

Per NBA veteran reporter Marc Stein via his substack, the Kings could even be convinced to take on Harris’ deal as well:

We found a facilitator but I don't want to make a new thread for the Kings replacement of Portland, Harris is a good player Just overpaid, what kind of pick package would it take for KIngs to be convinced to facilitate Simmons to NO's ? - Harris/Barnes/Hali/Fox rotation + picks is not a bad haul if they can take the financial hit

"I’ve heard Sacramento described by more than one rival team as the closest thing there is to a trade partner you could class as “favorites” to bring a resolution to the seemingly interminable Simmons standoff before the deadline (as things stand). reason being: More than one rival team believes Sacramento, in its desire for a significant shakeup as it bumbles toward a record 16th consecutive season out of the playoffs, could be convinced to take on Tobias Harris’ contract to facilitate a Simmons deal. If the Sixers can’t get the top-flight player they covet, going ahead with a Simmons deal that enables them to shed the two years and nearly $80 million left on Harris’ contract after this season might be too enticing to resist rather than holding out for a star in return".

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/kings-could-be-convinced-to-take-on-tobias-harris-contract-from-sixers/ar-AASNbhq?ocid=BingNewsSearch
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Re: Norm Powell to NOP for TPE + ____? pick(s) 

Post#24 » by Whole Truth » Sat Jan 15, 2022 3:48 am

Per Steins Kings report.

Philly trade - (Simmons, Harris) for (Barnes, Graham, Bagley 11m 1yr, Sato 11m 1yr, Jax, pick/s ?)

Kings trade - (Barnes, Bagley) for (Harris, NO's pick/s ?)

NO's trade - (Graham, Sato, Jax, pick/s) for (Simmons)
MKWB
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Re: Norm Powell to NOP for TPE + ____? pick(s) 

Post#25 » by MKWB » Sat Jan 15, 2022 4:03 am

Whole Truth wrote:
MKWB wrote:
That's confusing the way you formatted that, but I get what you're aiming for with legally using the TPE.

Still, as has been covered a few times on other BS to NOP threads, that's a big nope. Rich Paul agented disgruntled star who quits on his team-- Griffin and Pels franchise wants no part of that again, especially for a complete non-shooter on a big contract.
Herb Jones and Hart have elevated their defense to a much higher level, and they can actually shoot. The only real position of need for the Pels is PG upgrade and a healthy Zion upgrade.


I couls list several players considered headcases & cancers like Rasheed & Rabdolph prior to being traded that went on to be successful post trade. I also don't believe that Simmons ibehavior is solely due to him but I'm on the outside looking in...

Why I like the potential addition of Simmons.

- Arguably the best perimeter defender in the league
- His versatility, with his size, length, the abilty to play make at PG, point F & point C in small ball PO scenarios.
- He's a playmaker first with several scoring options in Zion, Jonas & BI.
- Defensive length & playmaking at the 1 pressuring apposing PG's, watched him lock down Morant over the last couple yrs
- Defense speed & playmaking at the 5 in small ball scenarios where his shooting woes are mitigated like GS' Green
- Simmons/Herb/BI/Zion/Jonas is a big lengthy lineup with 2 of the best perimeter defenders, 3 playmakers, 3 players capable from range with Herbs growth in that area.
- Same way Klays 3pt shooting amplified Curry's range, so will Simmons defensive capability amplify Herb's defensive impact. Those 2 pressuring the defense will make either or both Zion & Jonas offense that much more potent.
- His transition game off his & Herb;s defense & switchability. Same way I suggested Siakan in that role when Raptors landed Kawhi & Green before he became a respectable shooter. His speed in transition off their defense put a pressure on teams defenses. Zion, Simmons, BI, Herb, Hart ... terror IMO transitioning from defense to offense.


You make some good points about how unique BS's addition would make the Pels' line-up options. Defense-heavy, paint scoring, lack of shooting. Would definitely be a 'zig while the rest of the league zags' kind of move.

Of course I disagree about the on-court fit. BS's offensive strengths replicate/overlap with the Point Zion role that Z excelled in last season. And if the Pelicans will use significant pick and player assets to bring in a star--- wouldn't they rather save those for a player that makes more of an obvious stylistic compliment to Zion? (aka good shooter). But mostly, it's the off-court fit that makes this scenario so unlikely. This goes way beyond a Rasheed Wallace / Zach Randolph / DeMarcus Cousins type of stron-personality situation...

David Griffin is the Executive Vice President of the Pelicans and every indication is that he will continue to be for the forseeable future. From the beginning, Griffin referenced his situation in Clevland, when LBJ decided to re-join the Cavs unexpectedly, he was forced to build a contender quickly while mortaging any long-term, sustainable view for the franchise. Reading between the lines, he had to deal with a lot of pressure from LBJ and Rich Paul to make the moves they wanted, overpay for the pending free agents they had like JR Smith and Tristan Thompson.

Since taking the Pelicans job, nearly every media appearance and press conference he's ever given, Griffin has stressed the importance of building a sustainable winning culture, and emphasized adding / keeping high-character, team-first individuals. He has traded away 3 Rich Paul clients the past few seasons (Davis, Bledsoe, and Lonzo Ball), and currently none are on the Pelicans rosters. One of the few teams in the league without any Klutch clients?

So basically, Griffin trading the prized assets he's collected over the years for a high-profile Klutch / Rich Paul client, who has clear documented character issues... who has literally chosen to not show up to play for his team for half a season now... Who has faked a mental health issue as a way to still collect his salary while not playing for his team... Who, like Anthony Davis, is known to have a strong preference to be in or near L.A. California... Who is also a clunky, questionable on-court fit, especially with the Pelicans current star -- Trading for that player would go against everything Griffin has ever said publicly as the leader of the franchise. That's the main reason it's extremely unlikely for Ben Simmons to be traded to the New Orleans Pelicans.
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Re: Norm Powell to NOP for TPE + ____? pick(s) 

Post#26 » by Whole Truth » Sat Jan 15, 2022 4:40 am

MKWB wrote: You make some good points about how unique BS's addition would make the Pels' line-up options. Defense-heavy, paint scoring, lack of shooting. Would definitely be a 'zig while the rest of the league zags' kind of move.

Of course I disagree about the on-court fit. His offensive stregnths basically replicate/overlap with the Point Zion role that Z excelled in last season. And if the Pelicans will use significant pick and player assets to bring in a star--- wouldn't they rather save those for a player that makes more of an obvious stylistic compliment to Zion? (aka good shooter). But mostly, it's the off-court fit that makes this scenario so unlikely. This goes way beyond a Rasheed Wallace / Zach Randolph / DeMarcus Cousins type of stron-personality situation...

David Griffin is the Executive Vice President of the Pelicans and every indication is that he will continue to be for the forseeable future. From the beginning, Griffin referenced his situation in Clevland, when LBJ decided to re-join the Cavs unexpectedly, he was forced to build a contender quickly while mortaging any long-term, sustainable view for the franchise. Reading between the lines, he had to deal with a lot of pressure from LBJ and Rich Paul to make the moves they wanted, overpay for the pending free agents they had like JR Smith and Tristan Thompson.

Since taking the Pelicans job, nearly every media appearance and press conference he's ever given, Griffin has stressed the importance of building a sustainable winning culture, and emphasized adding / keeping high-character, team-first individuals. He has traded away 3 Rich Paul clients the past few seasons (Davis, Bledsoe, and Lonzo Ball), and currently none are on the Pelicans rosters. One of the few teams in the league without any Klutch clients?

So basically, Griffin trading the prized assets he's collected over the years for a high-profile Klutch / Rich Paul client, who has clear documented character issues... who has literally chosen to not show up to play for his team for half a season now... Who has faked a mental health issue as a way to still collect his salary while not playing for his team... Who, like Anthony Davis, is known to have a strong preference to be in or near L.A. California... Who is also a clunky, questionable on-court fit, especially with the Pelicans current star -- Trading for that player would go against everything Griffin has ever said publicly as the leader of the franchise. That's the main reason it's extremely unlikely for Ben Simmons to be traded to the New Orleans Pelicans.


Tell me how good of a 3pt threat is Green that teams have to respect his range. I see PO Simmons at the 5 in small ball next to Zion as Green on steroids which would punish teams for trying to run Jonas off the court. Simmons is Longer, quicker, a better perimeter defender & a better play maker... That versatility to play him at PG, PF, PC opens alot of rotation options

I don't know enough about why SImmons us refusing to play to argue either way about his character. I just know from experience how things appear to be are not always as it apppears to be, just saying. Jimmy Butler comes to mind... it was said he was a cancer to the Wolves young players but looks like a mentor playing next to Hero in Miami... what is what ?

Concerning Klutch clients, I think while Griffen might prefer to not deal with them, I also don;t think it's smart to reject talent because of it. Meaning, there's a time, place for everything & there;s always an exception to the rule. If Lebron wanted to play for NO's, would DG be saying nah, he's a Klicth client ? I'd like to think not.

In todays NBA, 3pt shooting & spacing is very important but so is defensive versatility & playmaking.

I was following Memphis during their short 3yr rebuild, Jenkins is a great coach... I learnt you can never have enough play makers. Ball movement, player movement creates easy offense, the hardest player to gaurd is the one who;s constantly moving. Set shooters could stagnate..

I salivate at the idea of Simmons, Herbs defensive pressure, switchability & transition game with ZIon/BI.

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