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Texas Chuck wrote:If I am Chicago I would not trade any of those 3 pieces for the return from Toronto much less somehow all 3 of them. Boucher is an okay 4th big. Precious having really gotten a chance to play in Toronto looks nowhere close to being a legit NBA starter or maybe even rotation player. I understand he was the big "get" in the Lowry deal, but I don't think he's a particularly intriguing player and as pointed out above, the Chicago kids are younger with what appears to me to be more upside.

Troy Brown Jr and a 2nd for Boucher seems simpler and logical for both imo.

I have to agree here. At this point, Boucher is in the middle of a down season, at age 29, and an expiring contract. His value is definitely distressed compared to what he should’ve been this past summer. But, I’d have to say that I think Coby and Dosunmo are both more valuable in trade than either of what Toronto is sending out. In theory, a 1st Wouk shave to be going to Chicago, not from Chicago.

But I also don’t see either team having interest in this specific swap. I see Chicago investing long term in Dowunmo, and somewhat Coby. I see Toronto also wanting to wait out Achiuwa and see what they can develop there, even if it takes the full rookie contract.

I think the main issue with the trade is that it's simply too be. Yes Chiago is deep in the backcourt and Toronto is deep in the frontcourt, but they shouldn't simply swap all their depth like that and then just create the same problem but in reverse.

I for some time thought a White for Boucher trade would make some sense. As the season goes on, Boucher is in a big-time slump and Coby is playing some of the best ball of his career. When you get into contracts and ages, at this point I think the additional value in such a deal would need to come from Toronto.

Boucher and Precious suck.

Dosunmo is worth more than Precious/Boucher.

DroseReturnChi wrote:

gobullschi wrote:So much wrong with this trade.

1st - Ayo is a hometown kid and the UC goes berserk every time he steps on the floor. The Bulls were very fortunate that he fell to the 2nd round. Highly unlikely that he gets moved.

2nd - the Bulls wouldn't move Coby for Boucher & Achiuwa, let alone include draft compensation.

bulls have made available coby bc of tax. he was worth boucher before but now worth those 2. im doing it if im AK to cut costs.

Coby was always worth more than Boucher.

Bulls would be far more interested in Scottie Barnes than Boucher and Precious.

gobullschi wrote:Bulls would be far more interested in Scottie Barnes than Boucher and Precious.

gee you think.

I don’t see chi being interested in much outside of Siakam in TOR.

DroseReturnChi wrote:your not getting dosunmu lol. hes a borderline all star soon.
also he is a chicago product meaning your coughing up scottie. dont see him traded before white, pat, lavine.
honestly i see him as jrue holiday like number 3 option on a title team.

Borderline all star soon? Barnes has to be in the trade?

So much of this post is way off

Duffman100 wrote:

DroseReturnChi wrote:your not getting dosunmu lol. hes a borderline all star soon.
also he is a chicago product meaning your coughing up scottie. dont see him traded before white, pat, lavine.
honestly i see him as jrue holiday like number 3 option on a title team.

Borderline all star soon? Barnes has to be in the trade?

So much of this post is way off

Ayo has looked really good all season, which has many Bulls fans excited. DeRozan has taken him under his wing. Plus - being a hometown kid - he’s got an inflated value to Bulls fans. It’s hard to imagine a scenario where Ayo gets traded. I would absolutely move him for Scottie Barnes though. Barnes defense would fit like a glove next to Vucevic. I doubt the Bulls have the assets to get Barnes without having to include Patrick Williams - which they won’t due.

gobullschi wrote:

Duffman100 wrote:

DroseReturnChi wrote:your not getting dosunmu lol. hes a borderline all star soon.
also he is a chicago product meaning your coughing up scottie. dont see him traded before white, pat, lavine.
honestly i see him as jrue holiday like number 3 option on a title team.

Borderline all star soon? Barnes has to be in the trade?

So much of this post is way off

Ayo has looked really good all season, which has many Bulls fans excited. DeRozan has taken him under his wing. Plus - being a hometown kid - he’s got an inflated value to Bulls fans. It’s hard to imagine a scenario where Ayo gets traded. I would absolutely move him for Scottie Barnes though. Barnes defense would fit like a glove next to Vucevic. I doubt the Bulls have the assets to get Barnes without having to include Patrick Williams - which they won’t due.

Bulls would 100% trade Patrick Williams and Ayo for Scottie Barnes. That’s an absolute no brainer deal that would get the Raptors GM fired.

I like Ayo and I like getting excited by 2nd rounders. But let’s have some perspective.

DroseReturnChi wrote:your not getting dosunmu lol. hes a borderline all star soon.
also he is a chicago product meaning your coughing up scottie. dont see him traded before white, pat, lavine.
honestly i see him as jrue holiday like number 3 option on a title team.

Please explain how he's a borderline All-Star very soon especially in the east where there's a lot of quality point guards. Just a heads up Fred Van Vleet is putting up ridiculous numbers and people are acting like he's not an All-Star so how does a guy averaging 6-2-2 qualify as a potential All-Star? I get that he's from Chicago and the fans love a feel-good story but let's stop acting like he's untouchable. There is no way Toronto would even entertain anything on Chicago's roster for Scottie Barnes. Chicago has very good when now pieces and they are a very good team right now but Toronto is looking to build for the future. Unless both teams are severely overpaying in a hypothetical deal I just don't see it.

If Chicago offered every single one of their players not named Zach Lavine, Ball or DeMar DeRozan for Scottie Barnes Toronto would still say no.

Coby and Brown for Boucher and Flynn and a pick swap (Raps picking 20th right, Bulls 27th) feels about right, though the pick swap stings with how good Masai drafts.

Chicago would have about 48M to sign Lavine and Boucher and still be under the tax next year. Boucher becomes the backup 4 and 5 and gives them a genuine smallball option which they don't have with Bradley as slow as Vucevic at the 5. Flynn is a cheap backup 5 who hasn't figured this year but did win a Rookie of the Month last year and is more promising as their 5th guard than a normal one behind Caruso and Dosunmu. Boucher can start even with Pat Williams taking the spot next year. The Bulls probably draft another forward or backup center in the draft with their guard depth and Demar and Vucevic being older:

Lonzo-Lavine-Demar-Boucher-Vucevic
Caruso-Dosunmu-Green-Williams-Bradley
2022 1st rounder

Raptors get their bench scorer and don't have to resign a 29 year old for the 2/3 years it will probably take and give up Flynn who's struggling and move down about 5-10 picks for it.

VanVleet-Trent-Barnes-OG-Siakam
White-2022 1st rounder-Banton/Champagnie-Achiuwa

Commodor wrote:I don’t see chi being interested in much outside of Siakam in TOR.

Boucher is 12th in PER (I know it's PER) and was 4th last year among forwards. He's probably an average starting PF at this point and I don't think the Bulls are finding one cheaper. Can probably bring him back for something like 30/3 with the 3rd year a team option with the carrot of a starting spot for him, and it allows them to bring Williams off the bench this year and the next instead of rushing him. Also he's had good minutes as a backup 5, and they probably need one to win 4 playoff series considering Vucevic might get in trouble in the wrong series and suddenly you don't want to close with him, or foul trouble.

Lol.

I agree with Texas Chuck. As is, that's a really terrible trade for Chicago.

Just as a general note, the Bulls play a 4 out offense and defense. They want a big SF to play PF, not a small C so they can switch, handle the ball, run the court, etc. Even if the value was on, Boucher isn't the type of player that Chicago wants as a 4.

....

For all of the Toronto fans who got upset at the mention of Scottie Barnes:

https://www.nba.com/news/kia-rookie-ladder-jan-12-2022

He is ranked 3rd. Impressive. Really off to a good start.

Ayo? 10th. And he just got put in a trade for Boucher as a throw in. . . . with a draft pick.

coldfish wrote:Lol.

I agree with Texas Chuck. As is, that's a really terrible trade for Chicago.

Just as a general note, the Bulls play a 4 out offense and defense. They want a big SF to play PF, not a small C so they can switch, handle the ball, run the court, etc. Even if the value was on, Boucher isn't the type of player that Chicago wants as a 4.

....

For all of the Toronto fans who got upset at the mention of Scottie Barnes:

https://www.nba.com/news/kia-rookie-ladder-jan-12-2022

He is ranked 3rd. Impressive. Really off to a good start.

Ayo? 10th. And he just got put in a trade for Boucher as a throw in. . . . with a draft pick.

Oh yeah, I don't agree with that at all. Coby for Boucher is slanted in Raptors favour as it is.

But the Bulls balking at Patrick Williams and Ayo for Barnes is downright laughable. They'd take the deal 10 times out of 10.

Duffman100 wrote:

coldfish wrote:Lol.

I agree with Texas Chuck. As is, that's a really terrible trade for Chicago.

Just as a general note, the Bulls play a 4 out offense and defense. They want a big SF to play PF, not a small C so they can switch, handle the ball, run the court, etc. Even if the value was on, Boucher isn't the type of player that Chicago wants as a 4.

....

For all of the Toronto fans who got upset at the mention of Scottie Barnes:

https://www.nba.com/news/kia-rookie-ladder-jan-12-2022

He is ranked 3rd. Impressive. Really off to a good start.

Ayo? 10th. And he just got put in a trade for Boucher as a throw in. . . . with a draft pick.

Oh yeah, I don't agree with that at all. Coby for Boucher is slanted in Raptors favour as it is.

But the Bulls balking at Patrick Williams and Ayo for Barnes is downright laughable. They'd take the deal 10 times out of 10.

I would still argue that Coby, Ayo and a first round pick for Boucher and Precious is even more insulting. This thread was basically trolling and begging for the fanbases to get insulted with each other.

Ell Curry wrote:

Commodor wrote:I don’t see chi being interested in much outside of Siakam in TOR.

Boucher is 12th in PER (I know it's PER) and was 4th last year among forwards. He's probably an average starting PF at this point and I don't think the Bulls are finding one cheaper. Can probably bring him back for something like 30/3 with the 3rd year a team option with the carrot of a starting spot for him, and it allows them to bring Williams off the bench this year and the next instead of rushing him. Also he's had good minutes as a backup 5, and they probably need one to win 4 playoff series considering Vucevic might get in trouble in the wrong series and suddenly you don't want to close with him, or foul trouble.

Hey maybe I’m wrong but I just don’t see the point, Boucher is meh and really won’t move the needle in CHI. OG & Barnes are pretty much untouchable. FVV & GT aren’t needed. Siakam is what they need but he’ll be pricey.

Mr Swagtastic wrote:Please explain how he's a borderline All-Star very soon especially in the east where there's a lot of quality point guards. Just a heads up Fred Van Vleet is putting up ridiculous numbers and people are acting like he's not an All-Star so how does a guy averaging 6-2-2 qualify as a potential All-Star? I get that he's from Chicago and the fans love a feel-good story but let's stop acting like he's untouchable. There is no way Toronto would even entertain anything on Chicago's roster for Scottie Barnes. Chicago has very good when now pieces and they are a very good team right now but Toronto is looking to build for the future. Unless both teams are severely overpaying in a hypothetical deal I just don't see it.

If Chicago offered every single one of their players not named Zach Lavine, Ball or DeMar DeRozan for Scottie Barnes Toronto would still say no.

sorry but i have been following ayo and i sense jimmy butler vibes. i saw butler as an all star when nobody did in 1st yr too.
just my hunch. nothing against fvv but ayos way more gifted talent and he has insane size for a guard. fvv was undrafted and hes been peaked for last couple of yrs but he has my respect for a midget pg.
he was one of the best college players him falling top 20 was pretty troll. toronto should try to acquire him by offering 20-max in his 3rd yr bc chicago was idiotic preferring their guy nobody marko over ayo.

ayo isnt just from chicago. hes was a star from u of i meaning hes treated like a god his jersey was recently retired. hes basically untouchable try trading him there will be riots and gm will lose his job i guarantee. to me, he is drose 2.0. right now his stats suck but thats bc his team is treating him like a two way 2nd rounder behind rotation of ball, caruso who are clearly inferior talents. no iso lavines high usage ayos already setting new records.

Ayo is the most valuable piece in this trade IMO. And its pretty heavily skewed in TOR's favor.

As Chuck said, just make it Troy Brown Jr + SRP for Boucher. Simple.