RealGM

DAL Sends:
DFS
Bertans
THJ
Bullock

DAL Receive:
Tobias Harris
Caris LeVert
Korkmaz
Thybulle
Stevens

Why for DAL? Move from unsuccessful move ( Bertans), replace THJ with expiring LeVert who is a better ball handler, a need for DAL, and get a scorer at the 4, DFS and Maxi are both 3&D PF, and DAL needs someone who can drive to the basket and attack closeouts, with Bullock current shooting, Thybulle will fit just fine, Stenvens is an emergency PF.

Wood/Powell/McGee
HArris/Maxi/Stevens
Luka/Korkmaz/Pinson
Green/Thybulle/Hardy
Dinwiddie/LeVert/Ntilikina

PHI Sends:
Tobias Harris
Forkan Korkmaz
Thybulle


PHI Receives:
Love
Bullock

Why for PHI? They have 3 offensive weapons in Embiid, Harden and Maxey, their 4 position can be replaced with a shooter, having Embiid protecting the paint, PJT as 3&D masks weaker defense at the 4, evident by the amount of PT Niang is getting, is a floor stretching 4s, Love is a veteran with championship pedigree, Bullock is a vet to replace Thybulle minutes.
The trade gives them flexibility (25 millions) next year for resigning Harden and targeting MLE FA, and drops them below tax line.

Embiid/Trez
Love/Niang
PJT/Bullock
Harden/Melton
Maxey/Milton

CLE Sends:
Love
LeVert
Stevens

CLE Receives:
THJ
DFS
Bertans

Why for CLE? Load up on shooting off the bench, Bertans replaces Loves prodction, THJ add scoring off the bench, and DFS will be their 3&D SF, similar to Markannen last year but more defensively oriented.

Allen/Lopez
Mobely/Bertans
DFS/Okuro
Mitchell/THJ/Cedi
Garland/Rubio

I don't see how the 76ers can get out of the Tax for this.

I doubt CLE takes all that long term salary.

Colbinii wrote:I don't see how the 76ers can get out of the Tax for this.

You mean you don't see why?
They are sending ~48 and getting 40, they will be below tax.

Mavrelous wrote:

Colbinii wrote:I don't see how the 76ers can get out of the Tax for this.

You mean you don't see why?
They are sending ~48 and getting 40, they will be below tax.

Right, I don't see how they are capable of getting out of the tax based on what they are sending in terms of value.

Bullock still gets defended as a shooter. Thybulle will not. Spacing is not just about your current percentage but how defenses view you. Teams understand that this guy is a high 30's shooter over his career. They stick close and close out hard. Thybulle is not a Bullock replacement without pain to your offense.

I'll let others handle the deal as a whole, but that's a real pet peeve of mine. If he was shooting 40% it would hardly change the score. His benefit has always been more about the spacing than the production because he's not a volume guy. This isn't like THJ where the team depends not just on the spacing, but the actual volume production.

Same with Bertans. You watch the games. Teams stick to him because they know who he is.

Xman wrote:I doubt CLE takes all that long term salary.

This was suggested by a Cavs fan in the THJ for LeVert thread, not sure how much consensus is it.

Texas Chuck wrote:Bullock still gets defended as a shooter. Thybulle will not. Spacing is not just about your current percentage but how defenses view you. Teams understand that this guy is a high 30's shooter over his career. They stick close and close out hard. Thybulle is not a Bullock replacement without pain to your offense.

I'll let others handle the deal as a whole, but that's a real pet peeve of mine. If he was shooting 40% it would hardly change the score. His benefit has always been more about the spacing than the production because he's not a volume guy. This isn't like THJ where the team depends not just on the spacing, but the actual volume production.

Same with Bertans. You watch the games. Teams stick to him because they know who he is.

Kidd doesn't play Bertans, yesterday he played the starters 40+ (Luka and Dinwiddie 50+) and didn't play Bertans, he's not getting PT in DAL.
Bullock needs a change of scenery, DAL needs more offense, Thybulle will not be main rotation guy, Harris is the only conceivable option with the contracts they accumulated.

There's a huge gap between how Bertans is defended and how Bullock is defended.

Mavrelous wrote:

Texas Chuck wrote:Bullock still gets defended as a shooter. Thybulle will not. Spacing is not just about your current percentage but how defenses view you. Teams understand that this guy is a high 30's shooter over his career. They stick close and close out hard. Thybulle is not a Bullock replacement without pain to your offense.

I'll let others handle the deal as a whole, but that's a real pet peeve of mine. If he was shooting 40% it would hardly change the score. His benefit has always been more about the spacing than the production because he's not a volume guy. This isn't like THJ where the team depends not just on the spacing, but the actual volume production.

Same with Bertans. You watch the games. Teams stick to him because they know who he is.

Kidd doesn't play Bertans, yesterday he played the starters 40+ (Luka and Dinwiddie 50+) and didn't play Bertans, he's not getting PT in DAL.
Bullock needs a change of scenery, DAL needs more offense, Thybulle will not be main rotation guy, Harris is the only conceivable option with the contracts they accumulated.

I'm not arguing your deal. I'm telling you that Thybulle doesn't replace Bullock as you stated because of current percentages. What matters is how the defense defends you. Luka needs space. Bullock absolutely still provides it despite a bad November. Thybulle will not provide the same benefits. I mean even Josh Green who has been shooting a much higher percentage than Reggie doesn't provide the same spacing. Because teams don't believe in his shot yet.

Spacing is about more than your temporary percentage. That is my point.

I think this makes Philly much less competitive.

Colbinii wrote:

Mavrelous wrote:

Colbinii wrote:I don't see how the 76ers can get out of the Tax for this.

You mean you don't see why?
They are sending ~48 and getting 40, they will be below tax.

Right, I don't see how they are capable of getting out of the tax based on what they are sending in terms of value.

Sorry, I'm a bit dense today are you saying the deal is too good or too bad for PHI?

HartfordWhalers wrote:I think this makes Philly much less competitive.

Does it? I don't watch them much, and Harris did provide valuable offense during their injury riddled periods, but assuming Maxey, Harden and Embiid being healthy, does PHI need from Harris more than floor spacing?

Mavrelous wrote:

HartfordWhalers wrote:I think this makes Philly much less competitive.

Does it? I don't watch them much, and Harris did provide valuable offense during their injury riddled periods, but assuming Maxey, Harden and Embiid being healthy, does PHI need from Harris more than floor spacing?

I would have it a real drop down, and depleting a bench defensive specialist as well.

Tobias Harris has to be the most disregarded player in the NBA. Yes he is overpaid, yes he is underutilized but it seems people just cannot see past the contract to notice that he is a still a plus starter. You don't down grade plus starters to save some money when you are trying to win a chip. It doesn't happen....most of the time.

Mavrelous wrote:

Xman wrote:I doubt CLE takes all that long term salary.

This was suggested by a Cavs fan in the THJ for LeVert thread, not sure how much consensus is it.

I mean it's not my money, so I'd do this. Having said that, Gilbert would have to buy out all the minority owners before doing something like this. This is how a team like the Warriors ends up making capital calls midseason.

HartfordWhalers wrote:

Mavrelous wrote:

HartfordWhalers wrote:I think this makes Philly much less competitive.

Does it? I don't watch them much, and Harris did provide valuable offense during their injury riddled periods, but assuming Maxey, Harden and Embiid being healthy, does PHI need from Harris more than floor spacing?

I would have it a real drop down, and depleting a bench defensive specialist as well.

Thybulle is there to save tax, he can be removed.

jbk1234 wrote:

Mavrelous wrote:

Xman wrote:I doubt CLE takes all that long term salary.

This was suggested by a Cavs fan in the THJ for LeVert thread, not sure how much consensus is it.

I mean it's not my money, so I'd do this. Having said that, Gilbert would have to buy out all the minority owners before doing something like this. This is how a team like the Warriors ends up making capital calls midseason.

I have this as getting the Cavs closer to contending category, and I think the talent upgrade negates the bad money on THJ contract.
Cavs are out of picks, and out cap space, the team will not be tax payer this year or the next year, even with MLE use, so I don't see this as wild spending.

Mavrelous wrote:

jbk1234 wrote:

Mavrelous wrote:This was suggested by a Cavs fan in the THJ for LeVert thread, not sure how much consensus is it.

I mean it's not my money, so I'd do this. Having said that, Gilbert would have to buy out all the minority owners before doing something like this. This is how a team like the Warriors ends up making capital calls midseason.

I have this as getting the Cavs closer to contending category, and I think the talent upgrade negates the bad money on THJ contract.
Cavs are out of picks, and out cap space, the team will not be tax payer this year or the next year, even with MLE use, so I don't see this as wild spending.

As I said, I'd eat Bertans and THJ to get DFS (notwithstanding the fact I think he's a tad overrated on T&T). But what I'd do doesn't matter. What Altman might want to do doesn't matter. No GM can take on this much future salary and put a team this deep into the tax without first running it by the people who have to sign the checks. Not unless they want to get escorted out of the building by security the next morning.

I hate when people put Luka as a SF in a depth chart, even worse when a Mavs fan does it

CLE takes on $45 mil a year for each of the next two years. Sending out expiring guys that contribute - less than but probably close to what is incoming? Just do not see taking on negative value players for expirings.

Tobias would help but the rest seem mediocre to DAL.

DAL might send them (DFS, THJ, Bertans) - and add a pick just to have cap space to sign a big free agent. Or, add picks and send expirings to a third team for better help (Poeltl, JRich, McD, Turner, Hield, EGordon, KMart, Collins, UTA players, PJ, Kuzma, WAS players, etc.).