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If Masai prefers the picks or is just hesitant about having to re-sign Cam Johnson, then could something like this work for everyone?

NYK in: Cam Johnson + Jae Crowder/Dario Saric
PHX in: OG Anunoby + Derrick Rose
TOR in: Crowder/Saric + Reddish + '24 PHX FRP + '26 PHX FRP + higher of '23 NYK/DAL FRP + DET SRP (x2?)

- NYK bolsters the supporting cast around its "big 3"; while keeping plenty of draft capital if a top 10-15 guy asks out.
- PHX gets to pair their big 3 with the two best 3&D guys in the NBA...and sees if Rose can give their bench a spark.
- TOR gets a better haul for OG than Murray returned without taking on any future money.


*alternatively; send Fournier to Toronto as the salary-filler and give Masai his choice of the protected DET / MIL / WSH FRPs we control instead of the DET SRP(s).

That's a no brainer for the Knicks. IDK why Massai would do it but sign me up. I don't even care about getting Crowder. Cam Johnson would be a nice addition

dakomish23 wrote:That's a no brainer for the Knicks. IDK why Massai would do it but sign me up. I don't even care about getting Crowder. Cam Johnson would be a nice addition

I would just keep Johnson if I were Masai, but he needs a new contract this summer. Which it may not make the most sense for Toronto to pay him if Masai decides to do a rebuild...especially when they've already got Barnes & Siakam, even without OG.

Not sure I fully buy it, but it's something that other posters mentioned in the "Shams: Suns interested in OG" thread...and if that does turn out to be the case, then we or Indiana would seem like the perfect 3rd team to give TOR value for Johnson.

cgf wrote:

dakomish23 wrote:That's a no brainer for the Knicks. IDK why Massai would do it but sign me up. I don't even care about getting Crowder. Cam Johnson would be a nice addition

I would just keep Johnson if I were Masai, but he needs a new contract this summer. Which it may not make the most sense for Toronto to pay him if Masai decides to do a rebuild...especially when they've already got Barnes & Siakam, even without OG.

Not sure I fully buy it, but it's something that other posters mentioned in the "Shams: Suns interested in OG" thread...and if that does turn out to be the case, then we or Indiana would seem like the perfect 3rd team to give TOR value for Johnson.

Depends on how many players are being moved. Raps can use shooting beside Barnes, and if we move on from Fred and/or GTJ, i can see the Raps just keeping Cam.

cgf wrote:If Masai prefers the picks or is just hesitant about having to re-sign Cam Johnson, then could something like this work for everyone?

NYK in: Cam Johnson + Jae Crowder/Dario Saric
PHX in: OG Anunoby + Derrick Rose
TOR in: Crowder/Saric + Reddish + '24 PHX FRP + '26 PHX FRP + higher of '23 NYK/DAL FRP + DET SRP (x2?)

- NYK bolsters the supporting cast around its "big 3"; while keeping plenty of draft capital if a top 10-15 guy asks out.
- PHX gets to pair their big 3 with the two best 3&D guys in the NBA...and sees if Rose can give their bench a spark.
- TOR gets a better haul for OG than Murray returned without taking on any future money.


*alternatively; send Fournier to Toronto as the salary-filler and give Masai his choice of the protected DET / MIL / WSH FRPs we control instead of the DET SRP(s).

I don't see the point of this deal for the Knicks. The pick the Knicks are giving up is better than either of Phoenix's picks so why are they getting the best player in the deal with longer control. Cut them out and send more picks from the Knicks to Toronto.

Knickfan1982 wrote:

cgf wrote:If Masai prefers the picks or is just hesitant about having to re-sign Cam Johnson, then could something like this work for everyone?

NYK in: Cam Johnson + Jae Crowder/Dario Saric
PHX in: OG Anunoby + Derrick Rose
TOR in: Crowder/Saric + Reddish + '24 PHX FRP + '26 PHX FRP + higher of '23 NYK/DAL FRP + DET SRP (x2?)

- NYK bolsters the supporting cast around its "big 3"; while keeping plenty of draft capital if a top 10-15 guy asks out.
- PHX gets to pair their big 3 with the two best 3&D guys in the NBA...and sees if Rose can give their bench a spark.
- TOR gets a better haul for OG than Murray returned without taking on any future money.


*alternatively; send Fournier to Toronto as the salary-filler and give Masai his choice of the protected DET / MIL / WSH FRPs we control instead of the DET SRP(s).

I don't see the point of this deal for the Knicks. The pick the Knicks are giving up is better than either of Phoenix's picks so why are they getting the best player in the deal with longer control. Cut them out and send more picks from the Knicks to Toronto.

The pick is sooner. Not better. You can't possibly know that. We do know those Suns picks have zero protections so their upside variance is higher.

Knicks getting too good of a deal here. They are giving up a pick likely in the teens for two good players while getting off two players nobody in the deal cares about getting.

But even if you think the Knicks stuff is amazing, you still can't make the claim the Knicks pick is better than the Suns picks because of variance that goes with unprotected picks years out. I'd be surprised if there were many posters on this board that would rather have the better of the Knicks/Mavs pick this year instead of those two unprotected Suns picks.

Texas Chuck wrote:

Knickfan1982 wrote:

cgf wrote:If Masai prefers the picks or is just hesitant about having to re-sign Cam Johnson, then could something like this work for everyone?

NYK in: Cam Johnson + Jae Crowder/Dario Saric
PHX in: OG Anunoby + Derrick Rose
TOR in: Crowder/Saric + Reddish + '24 PHX FRP + '26 PHX FRP + higher of '23 NYK/DAL FRP + DET SRP (x2?)

- NYK bolsters the supporting cast around its "big 3"; while keeping plenty of draft capital if a top 10-15 guy asks out.
- PHX gets to pair their big 3 with the two best 3&D guys in the NBA...and sees if Rose can give their bench a spark.
- TOR gets a better haul for OG than Murray returned without taking on any future money.


*alternatively; send Fournier to Toronto as the salary-filler and give Masai his choice of the protected DET / MIL / WSH FRPs we control instead of the DET SRP(s).

I don't see the point of this deal for the Knicks. The pick the Knicks are giving up is better than either of Phoenix's picks so why are they getting the best player in the deal with longer control. Cut them out and send more picks from the Knicks to Toronto.

The pick is sooner. Not better. You can't possibly know that. We do know those Suns picks have zero protections so their upside variance is higher.

Knicks getting too good of a deal here. They are giving up a pick likely in the teens for two good players while getting off two players nobody in the deal cares about getting.

But even if you think the Knicks stuff is amazing, you still can't make the claim the Knicks pick is better than the Suns pick. I doubt there is a poster other than you on this board that would rather have the better of the Knicks/Mavs pick this year instead of those two unprotected Suns picks. And if they do, they really shouldn't.

Though I agree with you about the potential upside making the Suns' picks more valuable in a trade...it wouldn't exactly be surprising if those picks ended up being in the 20s, while our pick landed in the teens. But that's hindsight and without it, the unprotected future picks are the more valuable ones.

EDIT:
FWIW I actually think Rose would be a nifty pickup for the Suns. He's still got the quickness to play his game, he just hasn't gotten the PT to stabilize his averages after his slump, and I think he could give that toothless Suns bench some scoring prowess. Granted he doesn't have that kind of value because he's not playing like that right now, but I do think it'd be a shrewd pickup for them.

cgf wrote:Though I agree with you about the potential upside making the Suns' picks more valuable in a trade...it wouldn't exactly be surprising if those picks ended up being in the 20s, while our pick landed in the teens. But that's hindsight and without it, the unprotected future picks are the more valuable ones.

Oh absolutely. The Knicks/Mavs pick might convey higher than either of the Suns picks. The point I was making to Knicksfan is we can't know so we have to assign a range of values.

Too much for phx. If Johnson value is this low, no reason to trade him

I think Phoenix would want it to be 23/25 firsts. I do think that would be a hold up, but maybe they’d back off of it. I just think they are paying enough to be able to “only” trade one future unprotected first.

But it’s a deal all three teams should do either way really.

And I’d really like this a lot better with Rose+another Phoenix first to Toronto and FVV to Phoenix. A CP/Booker/FVV guard rotation would be pretty ridiculous to end CP3’s career - or at least his time with Phoenix if that roster is too expensive for new ownership.

Texas Chuck wrote:

cgf wrote:Though I agree with you about the potential upside making the Suns' picks more valuable in a trade...it wouldn't exactly be surprising if those picks ended up being in the 20s, while our pick landed in the teens. But that's hindsight and without it, the unprotected future picks are the more valuable ones.

Oh absolutely. The Knicks/Mavs pick might convey higher than either of the Suns picks. The point I was making to Knicksfan is we can't know so we have to assign a range of values.

I agree with you, I'm just sympathetic to his argument that our pick is more likely to actually end up higher...even if it doesn't have that unlikely upside that makes the Suns' picks juicier.

jayjaysee wrote:I think Phoenix would want it to be 23/25 firsts. I do think that would be a hold up, but maybe they’d back off of it. I just think they are paying enough to be able to “only” trade one future unprotected first.

But it’s a deal all three teams should do either way really.

And I’d really like this a lot better with Rose+another Phoenix first to Toronto and FVV to Phoenix. A CP/Booker/FVV guard rotation would be pretty ridiculous to end CP3’s career - or at least his time with Phoenix if that roster is too expensive for new ownership.

That's an interesting wrinkle. The suns would have to send out more salary with Crowder & Saric to bring back both OG & FVV, but with Toronto's lack of shooting Shamet could actually make sense for them as a player and not just a contract; especially if GTJ also gets sold off. So maybe something like:

NYK in:
Cam Johnson
Jae Crowder
Josh Okogie / Damion Lee

PHX in:
OG Anunoby
Fred VanVleet
Thad Young / Otto Porter Jr

TOR in:
Dario Saric
Landry Shamet
Derrick Rose / Evan Fournier
Cam Reddish
'23/24 PHX FRP
'25/26 PHX FRP
'27/28 PHX FRP
higher of '23 NYK/DAL FRP
DET SRP (x2?) / protected FRP (1xDET/MIL/WSH)

Post-trade lineups:

What't the point of trading for Anunoby if the Suns trade away Johnson?

Besides, in what world is Anunoby worth Johnson and multiple 1st rounders?

hcsilla wrote:What't the point of trading for Anunoby if the Suns trade away Johnson?

Besides, in what world is Anunoby worth Johnson and multiple 1st rounders?

Anunoby can defend opponent's best player much better? Not sure how mobile Johnson is after 2 knee surgeries

hcsilla wrote:What't the point of trading for Anunoby if the Suns trade away Johnson?

Besides, in what world is Anunoby worth Johnson and multiple 1st rounders?

This one.

OG for CamJo and 2 FRPs is an even deal. His potential with Mikal on the wing is very intriguing.

Texas Chuck wrote:

Knickfan1982 wrote:

cgf wrote:If Masai prefers the picks or is just hesitant about having to re-sign Cam Johnson, then could something like this work for everyone?

NYK in: Cam Johnson + Jae Crowder/Dario Saric
PHX in: OG Anunoby + Derrick Rose
TOR in: Crowder/Saric + Reddish + '24 PHX FRP + '26 PHX FRP + higher of '23 NYK/DAL FRP + DET SRP (x2?)

- NYK bolsters the supporting cast around its "big 3"; while keeping plenty of draft capital if a top 10-15 guy asks out.
- PHX gets to pair their big 3 with the two best 3&D guys in the NBA...and sees if Rose can give their bench a spark.
- TOR gets a better haul for OG than Murray returned without taking on any future money.


*alternatively; send Fournier to Toronto as the salary-filler and give Masai his choice of the protected DET / MIL / WSH FRPs we control instead of the DET SRP(s).

I don't see the point of this deal for the Knicks. The pick the Knicks are giving up is better than either of Phoenix's picks so why are they getting the best player in the deal with longer control. Cut them out and send more picks from the Knicks to Toronto.

The pick is sooner. Not better. You can't possibly know that. We do know those Suns picks have zero protections so their upside variance is higher.

Knicks getting too good of a deal here. They are giving up a pick likely in the teens for two good players while getting off two players nobody in the deal cares about getting.

But even if you think the Knicks stuff is amazing, you still can't make the claim the Knicks pick is better than the Suns picks because of variance that goes with unprotected picks years out. I'd be surprised if there were many posters on this board that would rather have the better of the Knicks/Mavs pick this year instead of those two unprotected Suns picks.

Yes you can. The Suns pick is already at a similar spot to the Knicks and Mavericks but now they are adding OG Anunoby. All they are giving up is Cam Johnson, a guy at the end of their bench in Saric and someone who is even more frozen out of the action than Cam Reddish. This is a big improvement to their on court team.

cgf wrote:If Masai prefers the picks or is just hesitant about having to re-sign Cam Johnson, then could something like this work for everyone?

NYK in: Cam Johnson + Jae Crowder/Dario Saric
PHX in: OG Anunoby + Derrick Rose
TOR in: Crowder/Saric + Reddish + '24 PHX FRP + '26 PHX FRP + higher of '23 NYK/DAL FRP + DET SRP (x2?)

- NYK bolsters the supporting cast around its "big 3"; while keeping plenty of draft capital if a top 10-15 guy asks out.
- PHX gets to pair their big 3 with the two best 3&D guys in the NBA...and sees if Rose can give their bench a spark.
- TOR gets a better haul for OG than Murray returned without taking on any future money.


*alternatively; send Fournier to Toronto as the salary-filler and give Masai his choice of the protected DET / MIL / WSH FRPs we control instead of the DET SRP(s).

Either cut the Knicks out or the Suns out. But I see no reason for the Knicks to give up a first and at least one of Detroits second round picks to help the Suns acquire someone we'd prefer to acquire ourselves. Because that is all this deal actually is. If all it takes is 3 first rounders, at least one second rounder and salary ballast the Knicks can do that themselves. We don't need Phoenix in the deal nor do we have any reason to settle for Johnson.

Knickfan1982 wrote:

cgf wrote:If Masai prefers the picks or is just hesitant about having to re-sign Cam Johnson, then could something like this work for everyone?

NYK in: Cam Johnson + Jae Crowder/Dario Saric
PHX in: OG Anunoby + Derrick Rose
TOR in: Crowder/Saric + Reddish + '24 PHX FRP + '26 PHX FRP + higher of '23 NYK/DAL FRP + DET SRP (x2?)

- NYK bolsters the supporting cast around its "big 3"; while keeping plenty of draft capital if a top 10-15 guy asks out.
- PHX gets to pair their big 3 with the two best 3&D guys in the NBA...and sees if Rose can give their bench a spark.
- TOR gets a better haul for OG than Murray returned without taking on any future money.


*alternatively; send Fournier to Toronto as the salary-filler and give Masai his choice of the protected DET / MIL / WSH FRPs we control instead of the DET SRP(s).

Either cut the Knicks out or the Suns out. But I see no reason for the Knicks to give up a first and at least one of Detroits second round picks to help the Suns acquire someone we'd prefer to acquire ourselves. Because that is all this deal actually is. If all it takes is 3 first rounders, at least one second rounder and salary ballast the Knicks can do that themselves. We don't need Phoenix in the deal nor do we have any reason to settle for Johnson.

I would love to "settle" for Johnson. He's really good and would be well worth one of our firsts this year and a SRP or two

As a Suns fan this is really tough. OG likely will be more important than Cam. But I've been a huge Cam Fan since day 1 and his shooting is really important for our team.

Isn't OG struggling with his shot?

Slim Charless wrote:

hcsilla wrote:What't the point of trading for Anunoby if the Suns trade away Johnson?

Besides, in what world is Anunoby worth Johnson and multiple 1st rounders?

This one.

OG for CamJo and 2 FRPs is an even deal. His potential with Mikal on the wing is very intriguing.

Yeah I like Cam Johnson, but OG brings a number of things to do the table that he doesn't. Cam Johnson + two first rounders seems like a fair deal to mean, although ideally I'd prefer if the Suns didn't include Cam and added another first-rounder + expiring contracts.