RealGM

What would be a fair trade between Miami and Memphis to move Smart to the Heat?

Financially swapping Smart and Robinson works. But I some picks would have to go from Miami to Memphis.

Perhaps, Herro and a pick for Smart and Zaire Williams?

Reasoning: feel that Smart would be a huge asset to Miami - more so than Lillard - and at a lesser cost. Smart, Butler and Adebayo make a very good defensive, hard-nosed team.

I don't see a trade working. The grizzlies got him for the same reason you think Miami should get him. Why would they give him up?

BBallFreak wrote:I don't see a trade working. The grizzlies got him for the same reason you think Miami should get him. Why would they give him up?

Don't know that they should. I figure the Griz wanted him for the games Morant has to sit then he might be available.
Just wondering what it would take. Something over the top or something more inclined to his salary.

Hoppy1 wrote:

BBallFreak wrote:I don't see a trade working. The grizzlies got him for the same reason you think Miami should get him. Why would they give him up?

Don't know that they should. I figure the Griz wanted him for the games Morant has to sit then he might be available.
Just wondering what it would take. Something over the top or something more inclined to his salary.

Miami simply does not have the type of players we would want back and just getting picks back is not what we are looking for. Herro is just not much of need here. Smart is going to likely be both our backup PG(Starting when Ja is out) and closing SF next season getting 30+ minutes a game. We gave up the equilvant of 3 1sts for him and outside of a dramatic fallout I don't see any conceivable trade this season that we would move him for lesser pieces.

I disagree that MEM gave up "3 1sts" for him. Tyus Jones is a advanced stats darling on sites like this, but the "value" he held in the Smart trade and the fact that a very much rebuilding WAS team that has solid PG depth outside of him hasn't subsequently dealt him is evidence that he doesn't hold 1st round value.

But with that semantics point out of the way, MEM still did pay a very high price for Smart and did so for a reason. I do not have them willing to flip him. Keeping Tyus Jones would have been enough to "get by" with Ja out. They targeted Smart because of what he can do for them still when Ja is back.

I don't think Memphis has any interest in trading Smart, and I doubt Miami does anything with Herro/their picks before the Dame situation is resolved one way or another.

The Grizzlies wouldn't do it, but the spacing with Smart, Butler, Martin, and Bam would be irreparable. You could put Curry in with those 4 and it wouldn't matter.

jbk1234 wrote:The Grizzlies wouldn't do it, but the spacing with Smart, Butler, Martin, and Bam would be irreparable. You could put Curry in with those 4 and it wouldn't matter.

Obviously, in this scenario, Herro would be the fifth starter and we'd probably put Love next to Bam (or sign Christian Wood), but I agree, the spacing would be terrible...

Memphis would ask for Bam or Butler which would be the end of conversation. Smart will likely retire in Memphis.

Smart hasn't played one game for the Grizzlies, but he's already retiring there. Attachments to players form so fast for some of ya'll lol.

Texas Chuck wrote:Smart hasn't played one game for the Grizzlies, but he's already retiring there. Attachments to players form so fast for some of ya'll lol.

Yup, and thinking Bam or Butler should be the asking price. I mean, wow...

Yeah, I don't see Memphis being happy to swap out Smart for Herro and a pick, let alone adding a quasi prospect they may (or may not) like. Feel if they wanted Herro, they would've made the initial move to get him at a lesser cost than make the move to begin with.

BBallFreak wrote:

Texas Chuck wrote:Smart hasn't played one game for the Grizzlies, but he's already retiring there. Attachments to players form so fast for some of ya'll lol.

Yup, and thinking Bam or Butler should be the asking price. I mean, wow...

Memphis is a contender, you want its essential asset, and you like wow - Memphis has no interest in 2 late 1sts. Wow…

hugepatsfan wrote:I disagree that MEM gave up "3 1sts" for him. Tyus Jones is a advanced stats darling on sites like this, but the "value" he held in the Smart trade and the fact that a very much rebuilding WAS team that has solid PG depth outside of him hasn't subsequently dealt him is evidence that he doesn't hold 1st round value.

But with that semantics point out of the way, MEM still did pay a very high price for Smart and did so for a reason. I do not have them willing to flip him. Keeping Tyus Jones would have been enough to "get by" with Ja out. They targeted Smart because of what he can do for them still when Ja is back.

The first part is just circular - you can't counter "Jones was valued as a first in the Smart trade" with "look at the Smart trade, Jones wasn't valued as a first". At least not without actually making that case. And the second part is a bit odd - "if Jones was really a starting quality pg the way the stats say he is, Washington definitely would have traded him away". I don't think there's anything in there to move me away from the view that Tyus was/is a significant positive value asset.

But I agree the second half, FWIW.

esvl wrote:

BBallFreak wrote:

Texas Chuck wrote:Smart hasn't played one game for the Grizzlies, but he's already retiring there. Attachments to players form so fast for some of ya'll lol.

Yup, and thinking Bam or Butler should be the asking price. I mean, wow...

Memphis is a contender, you want its essential asset, and you like wow - Memphis has no interest in 2 late 1sts. Wow…

BBallFreak wrote:I don't see a trade working. The grizzlies got him for the same reason you think Miami should get him. Why would they give him up?

The second post in this thread, literally from me!

BBallFreak wrote:

esvl wrote:

BBallFreak wrote:Yup, and thinking Bam or Butler should be the asking price. I mean, wow...

Memphis is a contender, you want its essential asset, and you like wow - Memphis has no interest in 2 late 1sts. Wow…

BBallFreak wrote:I don't see a trade working. The grizzlies got him for the same reason you think Miami should get him. Why would they give him up?

The second post in this thread, literally from me!

All is duly noted man

esvl wrote:

BBallFreak wrote:

esvl wrote:
Memphis is a contender, you want its essential asset, and you like wow - Memphis has no interest in 2 late 1sts. Wow…

BBallFreak wrote:I don't see a trade working. The grizzlies got him for the same reason you think Miami should get him. Why would they give him up?

The second post in this thread, literally from me!

All is duly noted man

And just for the record, no I wouldn't give two distant firsts in what will likely be the post Pat Riley era for someone as limited as Marcus Smart. He's a great role player, don't get me wrong, but I think those picks will be valuable.

The idea of Bam or Butler though is honestly just insulting. Marcus Smart is not the main piece in a trade for either of those players.

Prospect Dong wrote:

hugepatsfan wrote:I disagree that MEM gave up "3 1sts" for him. Tyus Jones is a advanced stats darling on sites like this, but the "value" he held in the Smart trade and the fact that a very much rebuilding WAS team that has solid PG depth outside of him hasn't subsequently dealt him is evidence that he doesn't hold 1st round value.

But with that semantics point out of the way, MEM still did pay a very high price for Smart and did so for a reason. I do not have them willing to flip him. Keeping Tyus Jones would have been enough to "get by" with Ja out. They targeted Smart because of what he can do for them still when Ja is back.

The first part is just circular - you can't counter "Jones was valued as a first in the Smart trade" with "look at the Smart trade, Jones wasn't valued as a first". At least not without actually making that case. And the second part is a bit odd - "if Jones was really a starting quality pg the way the stats say he is, Washington definitely would have traded him away". I don't think there's anything in there to move me away from the view that Tyus was/is a significant positive value asset.

But I agree the second half, FWIW.

I think I am the side that's at least attempting to make my case... This board probably had two consensus opinions before the trade...

1) Tyus Jones was worth a 1st rounder
2) Marcus Smart was not worth 3 1st rounders

Then Smart got traded for Jones and 2 1sts. So both 1 and 2 cannot be true. At least not in the context of that trade. If Jones is valued as a 1st then Smart was traded for 3 1st rounders value, which means #2 is wrong. Or if Smart was in fact not worth 3 1sts, then Jones was valued as less than a 1st.

People just throw out that MEM valued Smart as 3 1sts, with no substantiation behind that. That would be just assuming that assumption #1 was right and #2 was wrong. No argument, just saying it as fact.

My argument, in at least some attempt to substantiate my stance, is that a rebuilding WAS team that already Monte Morris and Delon Wright, would hypothetically be interested in moving a Tyus Jones type of vet away for "significant positive value" over keeping him as an expiring. Maybe not, but seems what most rebuilding teams would do. At the very least, you'd think he could be had for a great offer. And I've long argued that as much as the advanced stats like Jones in his backup/spot starter role, distributors who really aren't great scoring threats simply don't justify holding the ball as much as a PG needs to in order to play to their distributor strengths. Not over the long haul. So players like Jones, Rubio, etc. have always, IMO, been better on the stat sheet than on the actual court for good to great teams. Thus trade value does not match the advanced stats production.

BBallFreak wrote:

esvl wrote:

BBallFreak wrote:


The second post in this thread, literally from me!

All is duly noted man

And just for the record, no I wouldn't give two distant firsts in what will likely be the post Pat Riley era for someone as limited as Marcus Smart. He's a great role player, don't get me wrong, but I think those picks will be valuable.

The idea of Bam or Butler though is honestly just insulting. Marcus Smart is not the main piece in a trade for either of those players.

Hey, Miami gave a call to Memphis and asked what offer would make Smart available. Memphis in all honesty responded that Bam and Butler are the only assets that would make this happen. Do you see the context here? It’s not like Memphis thinks it is a fair price, they rather just genuinely responded to the inquiry.

esvl wrote:

BBallFreak wrote:

esvl wrote:
All is duly noted man

And just for the record, no I wouldn't give two distant firsts in what will likely be the post Pat Riley era for someone as limited as Marcus Smart. He's a great role player, don't get me wrong, but I think those picks will be valuable.

The idea of Bam or Butler though is honestly just insulting. Marcus Smart is not the main piece in a trade for either of those players.

Hey, Miami gave a call to Memphis and asked what offer would make Smart available. Memphis in all honesty responded that Bam and Butler are the only assets that would make this happen. Do you see the context here? It’s not like Memphis thinks it is a fair price, they rather just genuinely responded to the inquiry.

There was no inquiry. This wasn't a Heat fan. You made a counteroffer that was absolutely unreasonable (something against board policy, btw) and now you're trying to defend it.