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NYK / TOR - Quickley to Raptors
Posted: Thu Nov 2, 2023 2:15 am
by realball
New York Knicks receive:
Gary Trent Jr., Precious Achiuwa
Brunson/Divincenzo
Grimes/Trent Jr.
Barrett/Hart
Randle/Achiuwa
Robinson/Hartenstein
The Knicks trade Quickley, who they might have difficulty resigning, to dump Fournier' contract to open up $20 million in cap space, and get a defensive backup for Randle.
Toronto Raptors receive:
Immanuel Quickley, Evan Fournier
Schroeder/Quickley
Barnes/Fournier
Anunoby/Dick
Siakam/McDaniels
Poetl/Boucher
Raptors improve their bench.
Re: NYK / TOR - Quickley to Raptors
Posted: Thu Nov 2, 2023 2:30 am
by cgf
Hard pass.
Re: NYK / TOR - Quickley to Raptors
Posted: Thu Nov 2, 2023 2:32 am
by Thaddy
Quickely, Fournier, and Hart for Trent, Boucher, and Flynn.
Poeltl/Achiuwa
Siakam/Porter
OG/Dick
Barnes/Hart/Fournier
Schroder/Quickely
Brunson/Flynn
Trent/Divincenzo
Barrett/Grimes
Randle/Boucher
Robinson/Hartenstein
The Raptors get Quickely who is a major upgrade over Flynn. They get some creation ability off the bench and a lot of shooting.
Flynn isn't a bad player but his confidence looks shot in Toronto, he needs a new start somewhere. DDV has experience playing next to other guards and is good on defense. Boucher would benefit from playing with two point guards, and it could generate a lot of bench offense, especially since Grimes or Trent would also be there to stretch the defense.
Re: NYK / TOR - Quickley to Raptors
Posted: Thu Nov 2, 2023 2:35 am
by jbk1234
There's simply no way an expiring GTJ and Boucher is the best offer the Knicks get for IQ and Fournier. IQ is the only player with actual value here.
Re: NYK / TOR - Quickley to Raptors
Posted: Thu Nov 2, 2023 2:36 am
by TGW
jbk1234 wrote:There's simply no way an expiring GTJ and Boucher is the best offer the Knicks get for IQ and Fournier. IQ is the only player with actual value here.
This. The OP's trade is nowhere close.
Re: NYK / TOR - Quickley to Raptors
Posted: Thu Nov 2, 2023 2:38 am
by cgf
jbk1234 wrote:There's simply no way an expiring GTJ and Boucher is the best offer the Knicks get for IQ and Fournier. IQ is the only player with actual value here.
Yeah, if we're forced to move him then I have a hard time imagining nobody would beat this offer for Quickley.
Re: NYK / TOR - Quickley to Raptors
Posted: Thu Nov 2, 2023 3:47 am
by Colbinii
This is extremely favored towards Toronto.
Quickley isn't only a better basketball player than Gary Trent Jr--he is much better.
Re: NYK / TOR - Quickley to Raptors
Posted: Thu Nov 2, 2023 5:47 am
by Thaddy
Colbinii wrote:This is extremely favored towards Toronto.
Quickley isn't only a better basketball player than Gary Trent Jr--he is much better.
Same age and similar scoring numbers. Trent is more suited to be a system player. IQ needs the ball in his hands, and I'd rather have the ball in a more star players hands. A direct swap makes sense.
The Knicks need a guy that complements Barrett, Brunson, or Randle. They have too many guys who need the ball in their hands. He would be a good fit next to Barrett but Grimes is already in that role. The Raptors need more creation but I have doubts of IQ fitting in Darko's FIBA like system.
Re: NYK / TOR - Quickley to Raptors
Posted: Thu Nov 2, 2023 6:08 am
by kds92
If Quickley's going to the Raps, OG has to be coming back
Re: NYK / TOR - Quickley to Raptors
Posted: Thu Nov 2, 2023 2:35 pm
by cgf
Thaddy wrote:Colbinii wrote:This is extremely favored towards Toronto.
Quickley isn't only a better basketball player than Gary Trent Jr--he is much better.
Same age and similar scoring numbers. Trent is more suited to be a system player. IQ needs the ball in his hands, and I'd rather have the ball in a more star players hands. A direct swap makes sense.
The Knicks need a guy that complements Barrett, Brunson, or Randle. They have too many guys who need the ball in their hands. He would be a good fit next to Barrett but Grimes is already in that role. The Raptors need more creation but I have doubts of IQ fitting in Darko's FIBA like system.
If they're so similar then how about we just keep Quickley, because a Quickley - Trent swap would make us a worse team on both ends of the court.
Re: NYK / TOR - Quickley to Raptors
Posted: Thu Nov 2, 2023 2:40 pm
by Thaddy
cgf wrote:Thaddy wrote:Colbinii wrote:This is extremely favored towards Toronto.
Quickley isn't only a better basketball player than Gary Trent Jr--he is much better.
Same age and similar scoring numbers. Trent is more suited to be a system player. IQ needs the ball in his hands, and I'd rather have the ball in a more star players hands. A direct swap makes sense.
The Knicks need a guy that complements Barrett, Brunson, or Randle. They have too many guys who need the ball in their hands. He would be a good fit next to Barrett but Grimes is already in that role. The Raptors need more creation but I have doubts of IQ fitting in Darko's FIBA like system.
If they're so similar then how about we just keep Quickley, because a Quickley - Trent swap would make us a worse team on both ends of the court.
Trent is the bigger player and better on defense. The Raptors only have 2 guys that really demand the ball whereas the Knicks have 3 between Barrett, Brunson, and Randle.
If he's such a great player why isn't he a starter? IQ looks like a Crawford clone, maybe not as selfish but he holds the ball more than you'd want him to.
Re: NYK / TOR - Quickley to Raptors
Posted: Thu Nov 2, 2023 2:41 pm
by Colbinii
Thaddy wrote:Colbinii wrote:This is extremely favored towards Toronto.
Quickley isn't only a better basketball player than Gary Trent Jr--he is much better.
Same age and similar scoring numbers. Trent is more suited to be a system player. IQ needs the ball in his hands, and I'd rather have the ball in a more star players hands. A direct swap makes sense.
The Knicks need a guy that complements Barrett, Brunson, or Randle. They have too many guys who need the ball in their hands. He would be a good fit next to Barrett but Grimes is already in that role. The Raptors need more creation but I have doubts of IQ fitting in Darko's FIBA like system.
This just isn't true.
Quickley has made huge impacts on the game of basketball and winning in all 4 years of his career. He has led the Knicks in total +/- all 3 years [I believe, or the very least has the highest over the past 3 seasons]. He can shoot, he can pass [Gary Trent JR can not pass, he has an All-time LOW AST%] and he is a good defensive player.
The idea that he needs the ball in his hands is completely Ludacris and shows a lack of understanding who Quickley is as a basketball player and what his strengths are.
Furthermore, the idea that Quickley needs his ball in his hands [and let's change it to CAN have the ball in his hands, unlike GTJ] isn't a negative--it is a positive. He can be a secondary or third creator, an excellent connector offensively who can take his man off the dribble against a switching defence, penetrate into the paint and create open shots for teammates or simply knock-down the open shot.
I really urge you to take off the RAPTOR glasses on this one.
Re: NYK / TOR - Quickley to Raptors
Posted: Thu Nov 2, 2023 2:43 pm
by cgf
Thaddy wrote:cgf wrote:Thaddy wrote:Same age and similar scoring numbers. Trent is more suited to be a system player. IQ needs the ball in his hands, and I'd rather have the ball in a more star players hands. A direct swap makes sense.
The Knicks need a guy that complements Barrett, Brunson, or Randle. They have too many guys who need the ball in their hands. He would be a good fit next to Barrett but Grimes is already in that role. The Raptors need more creation but I have doubts of IQ fitting in Darko's FIBA like system.
If they're so similar then how about we just keep Quickley, because a Quickley - Trent swap would make us a worse team on both ends of the court.
Trent is the bigger player and better on defense. The Raptors only have 2 guys that really demand the ball whereas the Knicks have 3 between Barrett, Brunson, and Randle.
If he's such a great player why isn't he a starter? IQ looks like a Crawford clone, maybe not as selfish but he holds the ball more than you'd want him to.
If you say so. We're much happier having IQ than we would be with Trent.
Re: NYK / TOR - Quickley to Raptors
Posted: Thu Nov 2, 2023 2:47 pm
by Thaddy
cgf wrote:Thaddy wrote:cgf wrote:
If they're so similar then how about we just keep Quickley, because a Quickley - Trent swap would make us a worse team on both ends of the court.
Trent is the bigger player and better on defense. The Raptors only have 2 guys that really demand the ball whereas the Knicks have 3 between Barrett, Brunson, and Randle.
If he's such a great player why isn't he a starter? IQ looks like a Crawford clone, maybe not as selfish but he holds the ball more than you'd want him to.
If you say so. We're much happier having IQ than we would be with Trent.
Who is we? Last I checked he wasn't offered an extension and he has a 2nd round pick starting over him. But you think he's worth an All NBA defensive player and first round picks? What do you think IQ is worth?
Re: NYK / TOR - Quickley to Raptors
Posted: Thu Nov 2, 2023 2:48 pm
by Colbinii
Thaddy wrote:cgf wrote:Thaddy wrote:Same age and similar scoring numbers. Trent is more suited to be a system player. IQ needs the ball in his hands, and I'd rather have the ball in a more star players hands. A direct swap makes sense.
The Knicks need a guy that complements Barrett, Brunson, or Randle. They have too many guys who need the ball in their hands. He would be a good fit next to Barrett but Grimes is already in that role. The Raptors need more creation but I have doubts of IQ fitting in Darko's FIBA like system.
If they're so similar then how about we just keep Quickley, because a Quickley - Trent swap would make us a worse team on both ends of the court.
Trent is the bigger player and better on defense. The Raptors only have 2 guys that really demand the ball whereas the Knicks have 3 between Barrett, Brunson, and Randle.
If he's such a great player why isn't he a starter? IQ looks like a Crawford clone, maybe not as selfish but he holds the ball more than you'd want him to.
Jamal Crawford?
No offense, but Quickley is a good defender and savvy passer--he plays nothing like Crawford.
FWIW, IQ's average touch time was 4.5 seconds with 4.0 dribbles per touch in 2023.
Luka, Brunson, Trae and Ja led the league around 6.0 Seconds/Touch.
Dinwiddie, Monte Morris, Delon Wright, Ricky Rubio, Tyus Jones and the likes were around 5.0 Seconds/Touch [These are all back-up PG types].
He ranks 41st among guards > 600 Minutes Played in 2023 for Seconds/Touch.
I don't really think you know what you are talking about.
Re: NYK / TOR - Quickley to Raptors
Posted: Thu Nov 2, 2023 2:51 pm
by jbk1234
Just to be clear, GTJ's options last summer where opt out and sign a new deal with the Raptors, opt out and sign with a new team, or opt in on a smaller number than the extension he's rumored to have turned down. He opted in. I don't know what about that sequence of events has Raptors fans thinking he has anything other than minimal trade value.
This is before you get to their free agency status and the fact that the Knicks can match on IQ or the fact that the Knicks just signed DiVencenzo to the exact role GTJ would be playing. This isn't close.
Re: NYK / TOR - Quickley to Raptors
Posted: Thu Nov 2, 2023 2:54 pm
by Thaddy
Colbinii wrote:
This just isn't true.
Quickley has made huge impacts on the game of basketball and winning in all 4 years of his career. He has led the Knicks in total +/- all 3 years [I believe, or the very least has the highest over the past 3 seasons]. He can shoot, he can pass [Gary Trent JR can not pass, he has an All-time LOW AST%] and he is a good defensive player.
The idea that he needs the ball in his hands is completely Ludacris and shows a lack of understanding who Quickley is as a basketball player and what his strengths are.
Furthermore, the idea that Quickley needs his ball in his hands [and let's change it to CAN have the ball in his hands, unlike GTJ] isn't a negative--it is a positive. He can be a secondary or third creator, an excellent connector offensively who can take his man off the dribble against a switching defence, penetrate into the paint and create open shots for teammates or simply knock-down the open shot.
I really urge you to take off the RAPTOR glasses on this one.
Koloko has a better +/- than IQ
I guess it means he's worth more and we shouldn't actually watch games to see what the player is capable of.
IQ has a very high TO% compared to Trent Jr so going by the stats I would have to say he's turnover prone and a target on defense against NBA teams who look bigger every year.
If IQ is this generational talent or worth more than what you think I have him listed at. Then why does he have Grimes starting over him? Chuck and the rest of the TNT group mentioned that the Knicks seem like a low ceiling team, shouldn't they be starting their absolute best talent? Because based on your media and your front office. Grimes, a below average prospect, is starting over him.
Re: NYK / TOR - Quickley to Raptors
Posted: Thu Nov 2, 2023 2:56 pm
by dakomish23
kds92 wrote:If Quickley's going to the Raps, OG has to be coming back
Re: NYK / TOR - Quickley to Raptors
Posted: Thu Nov 2, 2023 2:57 pm
by dakomish23
Thaddy wrote:cgf wrote:Thaddy wrote:Trent is the bigger player and better on defense. The Raptors only have 2 guys that really demand the ball whereas the Knicks have 3 between Barrett, Brunson, and Randle.
If he's such a great player why isn't he a starter? IQ looks like a Crawford clone, maybe not as selfish but he holds the ball more than you'd want him to.
If you say so. We're much happier having IQ than we would be with Trent.
Who is we? Last I checked he wasn't offered an extension and he has a 2nd round pick starting over him. But you think he's worth an All NBA defensive player and first round picks? What do you think IQ is worth?
He was offered an extension. The number he wanted wasn't met.
So did you actually check?
Re: NYK / TOR - Quickley to Raptors
Posted: Thu Nov 2, 2023 2:58 pm
by dakomish23
Thaddy wrote:cgf wrote:Thaddy wrote:Same age and similar scoring numbers. Trent is more suited to be a system player. IQ needs the ball in his hands, and I'd rather have the ball in a more star players hands. A direct swap makes sense.
The Knicks need a guy that complements Barrett, Brunson, or Randle. They have too many guys who need the ball in their hands. He would be a good fit next to Barrett but Grimes is already in that role. The Raptors need more creation but I have doubts of IQ fitting in Darko's FIBA like system.
If they're so similar then how about we just keep Quickley, because a Quickley - Trent swap would make us a worse team on both ends of the court.
Trent is the bigger player and better on defense. The Raptors only have 2 guys that really demand the ball whereas the Knicks have 3 between Barrett, Brunson, and Randle.
If he's such a great player why isn't he a starter? IQ looks like a Crawford clone, maybe not as selfish but he holds the ball more than you'd want him to.
B/C basketball isn't just about putting the best players on your team on the floor to start the game. Grimes starts b/c of the needs of the starting 5 and IQ closes a ton of games regardless.