RealGM

I went back a couple of pages to refresh and review THE Lavine thread and didn't even see one.

IS THERE ANY LAVINE TRADE THAT MAKES SENSE?

I'm an ORL fan and I certainly don't want him, even though his basketball fit would be amazing. That deal combined with his (apparent) lack of elevating a team is killing CHI's chances of cashing out with any chance of a return. The fact that he's hurt and that they are winning without him is making it even worse and reinforcing every negative concern people have. He's an immense talent offensively, he's just a long, fast, effortless, powerful gazelle who happens to shoot beautifully from distance.

I'm resigned to the idea that now it's not a matter of return. CHI will have to settle for just being rid of his contract. Some team with expiring salaries could do it but it'd have to be a good basketball fit and, IMO, a veteran team with a strong hierarchy, because if Zach's your best player - you're in trouble.

Who can take him in?

As always, you have to look at LAL and MIA, who have the locker rooms and leadership to keep him in his lane. They could each probably just cobble together whatever crap they have to match salaries by the time this shakes out. Maybe add some srps for CHI to save face. Both of those orgs have shown a willingness to go all-in for a ring or two, future finances be damned...which is what Lavine is all about, I think.

I'm sure he's a nice guy and, like I said, an immense talent. Can't say we feel sad for somebody making insane money, but it's a curse in that you become a "negative" in the eyes of fans and GMs...even while tearing it up on the court. Ask Tobias Harris.

philly has plenty of expirings

Honestly, I do get that Bulls won a couple of games without him, but it's a matter of fit too. Caruso entering the starting lineup makes so much sense, especially with White already doing some of the things that Lavine is good at. If it was White that was hurt, I believe the wins would come in the same way.

That being said, NYK could go for him, Fournier, Mitchel Robinson and Grimes + Dallas pick for Lavine works money wise. Bulls get a prospect SG, a good Backup C in Robinson for the future and a pick.

tcheco wrote:Honestly, I do get that Bulls won a couple of games without him, but it's a matter of fit too. Caruso entering the starting lineup makes so much sense, especially with White already doing some of the things that Lavine is good at. If it was White that was hurt, I believe the wins would come in the same way.

That being said, NYK could go for him, Fournier, Mitchel Robinson and Grimes + Dallas pick for Lavine works money wise. Bulls get a prospect SG, a good Backup C in Robinson for the future and a pick.

That's pretty good but I'd say Robinson is better than a backup...maybe they flip him somewhere to a team with a need and the patience to wait until next year. Maybe CHI sends Drummond to NYK to finish out the year?

I'd like Robinson in ORL next year - doing all the dirty work so that Franz & Paolo can live their best lives. Maybe, as third team in, ORL could send expiring Fultz salary and DEN 25 frp for Robinson. Maybe NY keeps that DAL pick and passes on the ORL stuff to CHI?

*Edit: looking at Robinson's FT%...no thanks

tcheco wrote:Honestly, I do get that Bulls won a couple of games without him, but it's a matter of fit too. Caruso entering the starting lineup makes so much sense, especially with White already doing some of the things that Lavine is good at. If it was White that was hurt, I believe the wins would come in the same way.

That being said, NYK could go for him, Fournier, Mitchel Robinson and Grimes + Dallas pick for Lavine works money wise. Bulls get a prospect SG, a good Backup C in Robinson for the future and a pick.

Thats an overpay to me. By Mitch at least, potentially Grimes as well.

This works March 1st - Fournier, Precious, Flynn, DAL 24 FRP, WAS or DET future protected FRP for Zach.

Still not sure on sending 2 FRP to be honest.

BlazersBroncos wrote:

tcheco wrote:Honestly, I do get that Bulls won a couple of games without him, but it's a matter of fit too. Caruso entering the starting lineup makes so much sense, especially with White already doing some of the things that Lavine is good at. If it was White that was hurt, I believe the wins would come in the same way.

That being said, NYK could go for him, Fournier, Mitchel Robinson and Grimes + Dallas pick for Lavine works money wise. Bulls get a prospect SG, a good Backup C in Robinson for the future and a pick.

Thats an overpay to me. By Mitch at least, potentially Grimes as well.

This works March 1st - Fournier, Precious, Flynn, DAL 24 FRP, WAS or DET future protected FRP for Zach.

Still not sure on sending 2 FRP to be honest.

The trade deadline is February 8th

Skybox wrote:

tcheco wrote:Honestly, I do get that Bulls won a couple of games without him, but it's a matter of fit too. Caruso entering the starting lineup makes so much sense, especially with White already doing some of the things that Lavine is good at. If it was White that was hurt, I believe the wins would come in the same way.

That being said, NYK could go for him, Fournier, Mitchel Robinson and Grimes + Dallas pick for Lavine works money wise. Bulls get a prospect SG, a good Backup C in Robinson for the future and a pick.

That's pretty good but I'd say Robinson is better than a backup...maybe they flip him somewhere to a team with a need and the patience to wait until next year. Maybe CHI sends Drummond to NYK to finish out the year?

I'd like Robinson in ORL next year - doing all the dirty work so that Franz & Paolo can live their best lives. Maybe, as third team in, ORL could send expiring Fultz salary and DEN 25 frp for Robinson. Maybe NY keeps that DAL pick and passes on the ORL stuff to CHI?

*Edit: looking at Robinson's FT%...no thanks

Oh sure, Robinson can be more of a backup with the proper team around him, just don't see him being traded to a third team for value this year, being injured and all, bulls definitely wouldn't want to keep him rather than rehabilitate his value and trade

Lakers makes sense.

They are waiting until Jan 15 when they can trade DLo and Rui

not the move I'd make, but Dallas is certainly a team to at least consider. They've had rumored interest before and essentially the idea would be he's an amped up THJ. Start a deal with THJ/Holmes as the bulk of the matching, throw in Prosper and Hardy as some token value to sell the fans on, and? It's not a good offer of course if he's deemed to have any value or market at all. But if he doesn't that's still a huge exit ramp.

I think Charlotte has to be mentioned. They could use talent and are rarely looking to bottom out. Washington as well though they really really shouldn't.

I wouldn't mind being part of a three team deal if Chicago would want Huerter as a replacement.

Kings would take a defensive wing or larger guard in return.

No desire to have him in Utah. Not remotely a fan of his game and, if traded there, I would expect him to be as petulant as he was on draft night.

https://youtube.com/shorts/cre2ROrKlRU

I can't see Miami having any interest considering Herro is younger, cheaper, and playing better.

If he was down to come here and the price was right, I think Lavine would make a lot sense in NY starting in place of DiVincenzo and having his minutes staggered to lead the 2nd unit when Brunson & Randle rest. He could help open the court up for Randle & Brunson even more, and he's talented enough to beat up 2nd units with McBride, Hart, Grimes/Anunoby, and a competent big.

Ideally we'd grab Caruso too so that we had a great offensive & defensive option next to Brunson - Anunoby - Randle - Hartenstein, but that's really hard to pull off without including Robinson...would involve flipping Achuiwa or Flynn for someone who made enough to be flipped for Caruso 1-for-1 and hoping the league office is cool with that kind of technically-legal trickery.

Step 1
CHI: Grant + DiVincenzo + Sims + Flynn + DAL FRP
NYK: Lavine + Craig
POR: Fournier + Arcidiacono + POR FRP + DET FRP

Step 2
ORL: Achuiwa + cash + SRP(s?)
NYK: Okeke...assuming they won't add in Goga if we made it a protected FRP

CHI: Okeke + 24 NYK FRP + SRP
NYK: Caruso

- Bulls turn Caruso & Lavine into Grant, DDV, a FRP, flip that POR FRP for one certain to convey, and a backup C prospect
- Blazers turn Grant into an expiring, their pick back, and that Detroit FRP (protected 1-18, 1-13, 1-11, 1-9)
- Knicks hope Mitch's evaluation in early February is positive, while still being able to trade 4 unprotected FRPs + 2 protected FRPs this offseason

White | Carter | Flynn
DeRozan | DiVincenzo
Williams | Dosunmu
Grant | Okeke
Vucevic | Sims | Drummond

Brunson | Caruso | McBride
Lavine | Grimes
Anunoby | Hart | Craig
Randle
Hartenstein | Robinson | Gibson (Bitadze )

1st Unit: Brunson - Lavine/Caruso/Grimes/Hart - Anunoby - Randle - Hartenstein
2nd Unit: Lavine - Caruso/Grimes - Grimes/Hart - Hart/Anunoby - Robinson/Anunoby

The Knicks deal makes the most sense for the Bulls because Robinson being out for the year comes back next season and the Bulls move either Vucevic or Drummond during the summer Fournier expires while Grimes tries to work himself into the mix at guard, easier if they move Caruso

There's no way the Bulls give up anything to get Grant's extra long contract, he would be signed for more money and longer than anybody on the roster. And if you look, he rolls up his best stats when he's on losing teams, that's the argument people make against Lavine. Why get Simms when there are no minutes for him, have you seen that Drummond gets 20 rebounds when he's been starting? Of course any pick helps the Bulls who still owe their 2025 to SAS. that also puts Flynn in and leaves out Dalen Terry who has been getting quality minutes.

To LAL for peanuts.

I think the Knicks/Lakers offers are most likely.

Both make some basketball sense and both have moderate value pieces to send back (Reaves for LAL, Dallas pick and/or future picks for NYK).

Only hold-up is if either both NYK/LAL just don't think his contract is palatable.

ChettheJet wrote:The Knicks deal makes the most sense for the Bulls because Robinson being out for the year comes back next season and the Bulls move either Vucevic or Drummond during the summer Fournier expires while Grimes tries to work himself into the mix at guard, easier if they move Caruso

There's no way the Bulls give up anything to get Grant's extra long contract, he would be signed for more money and longer than anybody on the roster. And if you look, he rolls up his best stats when he's on losing teams, that's the argument people make against Lavine. Why get Simms when there are no minutes for him, have you seen that Drummond gets 20 rebounds when he's been starting? Of course any pick helps the Bulls who still owe their 2025 to SAS. that also puts Flynn in and leaves out Dalen Terry who has been getting quality minutes.

I dunno how realistic Robinson being moved is. He's not guaranteed to be out for the season, he'll be re-evaluated in early February, and we only have Early-Bird rights on Hartenstein, so can't offer him a deal starting any higher than 14.5M. Unless our FO is expecting Embiid to ask out, moving Mitch could leave us without a center next year.

And the Bulls FO has just held onto Lavine for too long. Letting him sulk and ruin the atmosphere around the team has just pushed too many potential buyers away. So they'll have to decide whether they want to get off money and get what picks/prospects they can, or if they'll continue gunning for the 10th seed with someone like Grant who could slide Pat down to the 3.

I think LAL bottoms the offer at DLO, Rui, JHS, Christie, and 2nds. They need do to something.

Think Dallas bottoms their offer like Chuck said.

If RJ could be aggregated.. and Toronto was maxing Pascal.. I’d like RJ, Dennis, Thad, 2026 first for Lavine.. But being tied to RJ’s contract, I can’t see it. Would need to be some layered RJ deal tied in.

jayjaysee wrote:I think LAL bottoms the offer at DLO, Rui, JHS, Christie, and 2nds. They need do to something.

Even that feels like too much. His contract would pretty much prevent LA from improving the roster in the offseason because Bron, AD, and Lavine would take up nearly $140 million of cap space.

The only place a LaVine trade makes sense is to a team with a lot of rookie contracts that do not get increased until LaVine's ends. His game play does not take a team close to winning across the next threshold.

Teams like the Pistons, Spurs, Wizards could be targets but Chicago would have to include some picks and be willing to eat some short term money.

Chicago sends: LaVine, 24 FRP (Portland - won't convey this year)
Hawks send: Murray, Hunter

Hawks stop the 2 PG try and get a scorer next to Young.
Chicago gives up pick that will not convey for a PG (can move Caruso) and a SF, better team balance.