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Wizards just fired their coach. They started, in some ways, a reset this summer. Might already be time to make a bigger reset.

Wizards in: Doug McDermott, DeVonte Graham, Tre Jones, Cedi Osman, 2024 TOR 1st, and 2025 ATL 1st

Spurs in: Jordan Poole, Delon Wright, Deni Avdija, and Corey Kispert


Wizards

McDermott and Osman are expiring. Graham is partially guranteed. It's a lot of immdiate cap savings along with a first-round pick in each of the next two drafts to jump start changes in DC. New coach, fresh roster.


Spurs:

Spurs add Avdija and Kispert to strengthen their forward spots with floor spacers. Poole, was once a key contributor to a championship team. Can Pop get good play out of Poole? We'll see. Spurs continue adding young talent to see who will emerge alongside Wemby.

I think the trade values are way off. To get Avd, Spurs would have to pay with more picks. As bad as Poole is, he is better than any players returning Wizards.

Why in the hell would SAS want Jordan Poole and his $128 M deal around Wemby jacking up 14 shot a game?

This is such a weird trade. Why are do you think the Spurs would have any interest in paying two very good firsts for a (strongly) negative package?

Chinook wrote:This is such a weird trade. Why are do you think the Spurs would have any interest in paying two very good firsts for a (strongly) negative package?

At first I thought he was just trading starting lineups.

I'm sorry but what? If anyone should be giving up multiple lotto picks to take that bum Jordan Poole off their hands, it's the Wizards.

I agree that Poole has negative value, but the Wizards have absolutely no reason to attach draft capital to move him. I mean who are they signing this summer with that cap space? Who do they need to extend?

Deni is best prospect they've drafted since OPJ and he just signed a reasonable extension. They're years away from being competitive.

Poole is obviously a negative contract but Washington isn't going to pay to get off his deal. This is a multi-year rebuild so they'll wait it out if they have to. No way they give up Avdija and Kispert for this package. Other teams/fans may not agree but Deni Avdija is highly regarded by the team and locked into a team friendly contract. This trade seems like a pass from both sides.

louc1970 wrote:I think the trade values are way off. To get Avd, Spurs would have to pay with more picks. As bad as Poole is, he is better than any players returning Wizards.

No he isn't. Poole is arguably the worst player in the NBA.

Lucky Once wrote:Poole is obviously a negative contract but Washington isn't going to pay to get off his deal. This is a multi-year rebuild so they'll wait it out if they have to. No way they give up Avdija and Kispert for this package. Other teams/fans may not agree but Deni Avdija is highly regarded by the team and locked into a team friendly contract. This trade seems like a pass from both sides.

if Will Dawkins pulls this trade off he gets his name in the rafters tomorrow

Colbinii wrote:

louc1970 wrote:I think the trade values are way off. To get Avd, Spurs would have to pay with more picks. As bad as Poole is, he is better than any players returning Wizards.

No he isn't. Poole is arguably the worst player in the NBA.

Poole is a 24 year old who was playing close to elite basketball when he signed his extension, there were stretches of the nba finals when he was the best player on the floor. He then got assaulted in the workplace and hasn’t been right since. Teams with young rosters, strong culture and cap space can do a lot worse than taking a chance on him.

Poole is far from the worst player in the league.

jarryd3107 wrote:

Colbinii wrote:

louc1970 wrote:I think the trade values are way off. To get Avd, Spurs would have to pay with more picks. As bad as Poole is, he is better than any players returning Wizards.

No he isn't. Poole is arguably the worst player in the NBA.

Poole is a 24 year old who was playing close to elite basketball when he signed his extension, there were stretches of the nba finals when he was the best player on the floor. He then got assaulted in the workplace and hasn’t been right since. Teams with young rosters, strong culture and cap space can do a lot worse than taking a chance on him.

Poole is far from the worst player in the league.

He is definitely the most negative player in the NBA, given his efficiency/usage.

Neither team would do this. No one wants Poole, and the Wizards aren’t trading Avidja.

Colbinii wrote:

jarryd3107 wrote:

Colbinii wrote:
No he isn't. Poole is arguably the worst player in the NBA.

Poole is a 24 year old who was playing close to elite basketball when he signed his extension, there were stretches of the nba finals when he was the best player on the floor. He then got assaulted in the workplace and hasn’t been right since. Teams with young rosters, strong culture and cap space can do a lot worse than taking a chance on him.

Poole is far from the worst player in the league.

He is definitely the most negative player in the NBA, given his efficiency/usage.

By what metric? In the East he’s 34th worst in PER (with 14 players worse than him with similar minutes) and he’s 15th worst in TS%. Even his usage rate (25%) is second on the wizards and not even top 50 in the NBA.

I think it’s fair to say he’s not having a great year but he is far from the worst/most negative player in the NBA.

Sorry but if in return for Deni you got to dump Poole and got 2 1st round picks you could never work as an executive again if you turned that down. The Deni values have gotten way out of hand. He's a good role player on a really bad team. He's not a good role on a championship team so you want to hold on to him. If someone wants to give you crazy value, you take crazy value.

Spurs would never consider this. I think 2 firsts for Deni is too much as is, much less saying sure we'll eat the giant mistake of Poole. Wizards gave the Warriors a get of jail free card, no other team is going to repeat that for them.

Just not close here.

I have this as a massive yes for Washington. And a no for SAS.

jarryd3107 wrote:

Colbinii wrote:

louc1970 wrote:I think the trade values are way off. To get Avd, Spurs would have to pay with more picks. As bad as Poole is, he is better than any players returning Wizards.

No he isn't. Poole is arguably the worst player in the NBA.

Poole is a 24 year old who was playing close to elite basketball when he signed his extension, there were stretches of the nba finals when he was the best player on the floor. He then got assaulted in the workplace and hasn’t been right since. Teams with young rosters, strong culture and cap space can do a lot worse than taking a chance on him.

Poole is far from the worst player in the league.

He got unsustainably hot in the finals then when his team was down he got passed up in the rotation by Gary Payton II and his team went from trailing the series to winning the title.

jarryd3107 wrote:

Colbinii wrote:

louc1970 wrote:I think the trade values are way off. To get Avd, Spurs would have to pay with more picks. As bad as Poole is, he is better than any players returning Wizards.

No he isn't. Poole is arguably the worst player in the NBA.

Poole is a 24 year old who was playing close to elite basketball when he signed his extension, there were stretches of the nba finals when he was the best player on the floor. He then got assaulted in the workplace and hasn’t been right since. Teams with young rosters, strong culture and cap space can do a lot worse than taking a chance on him.

Poole is far from the worst player in the league.

No, he actually is the worst player this year by most objective measures. He's been awful. He may not be the least valuable player which is something else. He is young with no injury issues and has been a good NBA player in the past, he certainly can turn it around so he may have some value. On the other hand that's a huge contract for a maybe that has been bad for 2 years in a row after he got paid.

I don't see this trade working, though. Anyone trading for Poole is tanking and no one is further from contention than Washington, not even Detroit. Deni and Kispert, on the other hand, are young win now pieces. If you are going to trade them that leaves Washington with Coulibaly and not much else; why dilute their value by attaching Poole?

Texas Chuck wrote:Sorry but if in return for Deni you got to dump Poole and got 2 1st round picks you could never work as an executive again if you turned that down. The Deni values have gotten way out of hand. He's a good role player on a really bad team. He's not a good role on a championship team so you want to hold on to him. If someone wants to give you crazy value, you take crazy value.

Spurs would never consider this. I think 2 firsts for Deni is too much as is, much less saying sure we'll eat the giant mistake of Poole. Wizards gave the Warriors a get of jail free card, no other team is going to repeat that for them.

Just not close here.

I don't think Wizards fans are trying to say that Deni (and Kispert) hold the value of (2) firsts and relief from Jordan Poole's contract. I think that most of us just believe it strategically wouldn't make sense for Washington to bother using assets to get off Poole, due to his massive negative value. From a value perspective, it's unlikely Avdija or Kispert could be replaced with those 24 and 25 firsts. Both are still improving and locked into relatively team friendly deals at least through next season, at which point Kispert will become a RFA. There is no rush to move either if the goal is just extending the window of that asset.

Poole is an anchor of a contract but the Wizards do have to pay someone to maintain the salary floor and will not be even attempting to compete for multiple years. The only value cap space has to this team is the ability to take on bad salary in exchange for assets. They will not be signing any free agents of consequence to improve the team. Even with Poole's contract on the books the team has adequate cap space and TPE's available to take on bad salary in return for assets.

Creating cap space by getting off Poole's contract now just doesn't contribute enough to a long term rebuild to justify spending moving the team's few assets. It's entirely possible this is something the team revisits closer to the expiration of his contract if the team has greatly improved, but today I believe the team's best (and probably only) option is to ride out his deal. Acquiring him in the first place was a mistake and paying to unload him now is just doubling down.

^^^Exactly. This trade comes down to whether I value the Raptors pick in a weak draft this year, and a 2025 ATL pick over Avdija and Kispert. I don't. Poole is terrible but the Wizards aren't going to attach assets to move him. It's that simple.