RealGM

Pistons receive:
•Keyonte George, 2024-5 $4.1MM, 2025-6 $4.3MM (TO), 2026-7 $6.6MM (TO), 2027 RFA
•Talen Horton-Tucker, 2024 UFA
•2025 FRP (best TWO of: CLE unprotected, MIN unprotected, UTA unprotected)
•2026 FRP (best of: CLE unprotected, MIN unprotected, UTA top-8 protected)

A promising rookie + three unprotected / lightly-protected draft picks.

Jazz receive:
•Cade Cunningham, 2024-5 $13.9 MM, 2025 RFA

Spend draft assets in a swing for the fences move.

Pistons are not trading cade and aren't looking to rebuild around picks.

Billl wrote:Pistons are not trading cade and aren't looking to rebuild around picks.

Fair enough. Just looking at players who are worth spending assets for. Cade meets that criteria, but I understand why the Pistons would want to keep him. If they were to be tempted by an offer, what do you think of the value of this one?

SkyHook wrote:

Billl wrote:Pistons are not trading cade and aren't looking to rebuild around picks.

Fair enough. Just looking at players who are worth spending assets for. Cade meets that criteria, but I understand why the Pistons would want to keep him. If they were to be tempted by an offer, what do you think of the value of this one?

Late first round picks? Pretty crappy. The wolves have a fantastic record and the cavs are top4 in their conf, so those just aren't very good picks. Those are the kind of assets that let you move up a couple spots in the draft, not trade for the #1 pick.

Pistons won't do this but they probably should

Those are late picks

Billl wrote:Late first round picks? Pretty crappy. The wolves have a fantastic record and the cavs are top4 in their conf, so those just aren't very good picks. Those are the kind of assets that let you move up a couple spots in the draft, not trade for the #1 pick.

Thanks. My thoughts were that, though MIN & CLE are both good teams now, there might be a good possibility of variance. After the downward cap projection yesterday, some Wolves fans have voiced concerns about the ability to keep the team together. (Me, I’d reup Conley whatever it takes.) And would it really surprise anyone if Mitchell turned down an extension this summer and (quietly) told the Cavs that he wouldn’t sign a new contract with them the following year? If he’s moved again in a pick-heavy package, their ‘25 & ‘26 picks look really good.

Anyway that was the rationale. Sounds like a swing and a miss regardless.

Saints14 wrote:Pistons won't do this but they probably should

This is where I land. Maybe you negotiate for different picks, but I think Detroit actually pushes their rebuild further back by maxing out Cade in a year. And if he's still on the roster that's going to be the expectation. I'd cash out early instead.

I don't hate this for the Pistons, I like the potencial Keyonte George has, 3 picks can be used in another trade if they see fit before. Won't happen though, let's see how the Pistons will fill their roster with the cap space this year

Texas Chuck wrote:

Saints14 wrote:Pistons won't do this but they probably should

This is where I land. Maybe you negotiate for different picks, but I think Detroit actually pushes their rebuild further back by maxing out Cade in a year. And if he's still on the roster that's going to be the expectation. I'd cash out early instead.

Not to dismiss Weaver's history of bidding against himself, but what other team is offering Cade a max unless he takes a big jump in the next season and a half? Not only has he not been very good, his health seems like a question mark.

Yeah, I can’t see Detroit trading Cade. But if they did, I’d think it should be more than OP.

For Detroit, I’d really try to get Hendricks and picks.. Not sure how many, but Utah has enough.

jayjaysee wrote:Yeah, I can’t see Detroit trading Cade. But if they did, I’d think it should be more than OP.

For Detroit, I’d really try to get Hendricks and picks.. Not sure how many, but Utah has enough.

George + Hendricks + the picks would make it worthwhile. If the 2025 is Utah’s, that should be pretty good.

A better move for Detroit, better than trading Cade, would be to move him into a playmaking SF role. He can still run some offense, but his on-ball usage is just way too high right now. It’s become pretty clear that his current role isn’t the right one.

tmorgan wrote:A better move for Detroit, better than trading Cade, would be to move him into a playmaking SF role. He can still run some offense, but his on-ball usage is just way too high right now. It’s become pretty clear that his current role isn’t the right one.

You would have to believe that lessening his offensive utilization would outweigh his defensive shortcomings AND be worth more than this trade in order to pass on a deal like this.

The problem with Cade is that he's not a two-way player, so in order to maximize his value, he monopolizes the ball every offensive possession he's in the game. If he's not used heavily on offense, he doesn't have much value. He's not a catch-and-shoot threat. He's not a defensive stopper. He's not especially athletic. What is he providing without the ball in his hands?

The best way to use him is with the Doncic playbook, hoping he becomes a similar player. That's what Monty is doing, for better or for worse. If Cade can't become Doncic-like, his comp is basically Bojan with less 3pt accuracy. If this season gave us nothing else, at least we know what we're getting with Cade.

Patrick27 wrote:

tmorgan wrote:A better move for Detroit, better than trading Cade, would be to move him into a playmaking SF role. He can still run some offense, but his on-ball usage is just way too high right now. It’s become pretty clear that his current role isn’t the right one.

You would have to believe that lessening his offensive utilization would outweigh his defensive shortcomings AND be worth more than this trade in order to pass on a deal like this.

The problem with Cade is that he's not a two-way player, so in order to maximize his value, he monopolizes the ball every offensive possession he's in the game. If he's not used heavily on offense, he doesn't have much value. He's not a catch-and-shoot threat. He's not a defensive stopper. He's not especially athletic. What is he providing without the ball in his hands?

The best way to use him is with the Doncic playbook, hoping he becomes a similar player. That's what Monty is doing, for better or for worse. If Cade can't become Doncic-like, his comp is basically Bojan with less 3pt accuracy. If this season gave us nothing else, at least we know what we're getting with Cade.

Disagree, at least to some extent. Cade can’t guard speed, which is another reason, at least defensively, to get him on a forward. I assume he’ll get stronger as he ages, furthering the need.

As for offense, he doesn’t need to change his role much, just the frequency in which he’s allowed to dictate the whole possession. His vision is actually quite good, even for a PG, but his handle remains sloppy for a point guard and he still makes ill-advised passes too often. There needs to be another initiator on the floor with him at all times, and it can’t be someone completely inept at scoring (Killian) or just as loose with turnovers (Ivey).

Cade is making some progress this year. He’s shooting better (tho not where he needs to be) in particular, and his assists are up, but the turnover issue remains. I again contend he’s just not a lead ball handler for a good team. Sure, we can get him more reps and hope there’s progress, but it shouldn’t prevent us from looking elsewhere for PG minutes. Heck, I wish Sasser would get a lot more run with Cade. Sasser is a POA defender and scorer with a tight handle, but he’s not a natural passer. Him at the 1 with Cade as a 2/3 seems like a great fit. Ivey probably isn’t the guy to fit with them, tho, and current Ausur isn’t great either, tho I’d try it for a while.

SkyHook wrote:

Billl wrote:Late first round picks? Pretty crappy. The wolves have a fantastic record and the cavs are top4 in their conf, so those just aren't very good picks. Those are the kind of assets that let you move up a couple spots in the draft, not trade for the #1 pick.

Thanks. My thoughts were that, though MIN & CLE are both good teams now, there might be a good possibility of variance. After the downward cap projection yesterday, some Wolves fans have voiced concerns about the ability to keep the team together. (Me, I’d reup Conley whatever it takes.) And would it really surprise anyone if Mitchell turned down an extension this summer and (quietly) told the Cavs that he wouldn’t sign a new contract with them the following year? If he’s moved again in a pick-heavy package, their ‘25 & ‘26 picks look really good.

Anyway that was the rationale. Sounds like a swing and a miss regardless.

That’s a lot of ‘what ifs’ for a trade for a guy like Cade. The most likely outcome is that none of those assets come close to Cade, so why would a team with a desperate need for high end young talent say ‘well there’s like a 15-20% chance George becomes as good as Cade soon, and maybe a 50% chance one pick in 2016 is late lotto, so we gotta do that!’

Patrick27 wrote:The best way to use him is with the Doncic playbook, hoping he becomes a similar player. That's what Monty is doing, for better or for worse. If Cade can't become Doncic-like, his comp is basically Bojan with less 3pt accuracy. If this season gave us nothing else, at least we know what we're getting with Cade.

Small point but where in tarnation did the Bojan comp come from?

HotelVitale wrote:

Patrick27 wrote:The best way to use him is with the Doncic playbook, hoping he becomes a similar player. That's what Monty is doing, for better or for worse. If Cade can't become Doncic-like, his comp is basically Bojan with less 3pt accuracy. If this season gave us nothing else, at least we know what we're getting with Cade.

Small point but where in tarnation did the Bojan comp come from?

About 6'6, 225lbs
Creates his own shot in ISO situations
Poor defender
High BBIQ
Good work ethic
Good shooting
Poor athleticism
Somewhat injury prone
I'm giving Cade the benefit of improved 3pt shooting with this comp
Plus the eye test - they have similar movesets to slowly make their way around their defender and probe the defense.

Assuming we get away from Cade as a PG and make him more of a wing that runs the offense part-time, what other comp would you give him?

Patrick27 wrote:

HotelVitale wrote:

Patrick27 wrote:The best way to use him is with the Doncic playbook, hoping he becomes a similar player. That's what Monty is doing, for better or for worse. If Cade can't become Doncic-like, his comp is basically Bojan with less 3pt accuracy. If this season gave us nothing else, at least we know what we're getting with Cade.

Small point but where in tarnation did the Bojan comp come from?

About 6'6, 225lbs
Creates his own shot in ISO situations
Poor defender
High BBIQ
Good work ethic
Good shooting
Poor athleticism
Somewhat injury prone
I'm giving Cade the benefit of improved 3pt shooting with this comp
Plus the eye test - they have similar movesets to slowly make their way around their defender and probe the defense.

Assuming we get away from Cade as a PG and make him more of a wing that runs the offense part-time, what other comp would you give him?

Now you’re making me rethink my proposal.

Patrick27 wrote:

HotelVitale wrote:

Patrick27 wrote:The best way to use him is with the Doncic playbook, hoping he becomes a similar player. That's what Monty is doing, for better or for worse. If Cade can't become Doncic-like, his comp is basically Bojan with less 3pt accuracy. If this season gave us nothing else, at least we know what we're getting with Cade.

Small point but where in tarnation did the Bojan comp come from?

About 6'6, 225lbs
Creates his own shot in ISO situations
Poor defender
High BBIQ
Good work ethic
Good shooting
Poor athleticism
Somewhat injury prone
I'm giving Cade the benefit of improved 3pt shooting with this comp
Plus the eye test - they have similar movesets to slowly make their way around their defender and probe the defense.

Assuming we get away from Cade as a PG and make him more of a wing that runs the offense part-time, what other comp would you give him?

I never like comps so don't really want to labor this, but Cade's signature is his vision and ability to control pace, he's been disappointing at applying that but it's still what defines him. Bojan has been able to create his own shot since Indiana days, but it took him a while to get there and he's still just a service-able ball-handler with mediocre vision. Uses his size and smarts to get his own shots off more or less.

Even if Cade isn't given the ball all day to create like now, he's still going to play the same basic role--using picks to get into space and spray the ball around or attack. He'll still be a guy who passes a ton and creates for others, and he's also probably never going to be the type of sizzling shooter Bojan can be when he's hot. Just more of a point forward with a streaky shot, while Bojan is a scoring big wing with a helluva jumper.