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This should have happened already. Murray fits a glaring need (offensive PG) and a coach Mosely requirement (defensive effort & ability). The only offers I hear (LAL) are relatively weak…ORL is uniquely positioned with large expirings and all of their own picks plus an additional DEN frp. The core is very young and hitting some success just before large extensions will be hitting…now is the time to take a big step to pump up their weak backcourt offense with a guy who also can up their already potent defense. ORL should be happy to sit out a couple drafts…they pulled in 5 high picks in the last 3 years…ATL should jump on this while there’s still time to flip assets by this trade deadline - and accelerate their retooling.

ORL sends: Markelle Fultz, Gary Harris (both expiring, both 6’4, 205+, defensive-minded players), ORL 24, ORL 27, DEN 25 (all top 5 protected)

ATL sends: Dejounte Murray, AJ Griffin

*tough to send 3 frps for Murray, but adding Paolo’s college teammate, Griffin (who’s been out of the rotation), makes it palatable. Fultz and Harris are very solid, but limited in what they bring- either or both could actually do well with Trae and/or off the bench. At the very least, they represent about $30m in expiring salary for ATL to work with- which, along with picks, is what I understand ATL to be seeking. If ATL would prefer some young, under contract, less expensive players mixed in - Wendell Carter could make Capela expendable, Cole Anthony could provide a lesser Trae off the bench, Caleb Houstan might well provide what Griffin projects to be at a lower salary. Or, ORL could add Ingles & Okeke (TO & expiring) and take back Bogdonavic. The posted option is my preference for ORL and, I believe what ATL is prioritizing…before ATL fans say they don’t want Fultz or Harris - let me remind them that they are included strictly as expiring salary in my OP…anything they bring on-court is just added value gravy, IMO. If ATL chooses to keep either (likely on reduced deals) or flip either to a contender…that’s just bonus.

Why for ORL: their backcourt defense goes from impactful to frightening. Suggs’ insane energy revitalizes Dejounte’s defensive intensity and they become a truly angry backcourt to face. Anthony Black off the bench keeps it going all game. Dejounte also brings the backcourt scoring and volume shooting ORL presently lacks at that spot. Griffin brings positional versatility and high-volume spot-up 3’s (which are abundant with Paolo & Franz’ gravity inside). Paolo is pumped to be relieved of facing double and triple teams all night and piles up assists with reliable backcourt scoring. He welcomes reuniting with his hometown hero and his college teammate. The “beef” that Paolo & Dejounte had was way overblown and happily forgotten by both. Paolo is icy on the outside, but along with Suggs & Franz, he feeds off of a guy like Dejounte’s hard edges & competitive ferocity.

If Dejounte goes to LAL for Russell and some distant crappy pick, I will never understand it.

Even the Lakers can beat that offer.

BK_2020 wrote:Even the Lakers can beat that offer.

How would they? I doubt it…I would think ATL, having Trae onboard, may not be too excited about a pick in 2030 versus more immediate gratification. If it’s a bidding war, ORL has much more to offer. LAL is scraping around and (rightfully) unwilling to include good players as they are absolutely win-now and their roster is top-heavy with maxed out stars.

I don’t doubt LAL gets him - but only because ORL hasn’t shown any balls in making risky moves and LAL is more desperate/ urgent with their very real title hopes resting on a 39 year old GOAT.

Skybox wrote:ORL could add Ingles & Okeke (TO & expiring) and take back Bogdonavic.

I don't see a reason why Atlanta would do that.

Skybox wrote:If Dejounte goes to LAL for Russell and some distant crappy pick, I will never understand it.

I don't think anyone can say that the Lakers 29 would be acrappy pick. But the rumors are that Atlanta wants Reaves in the deal (probably as well) and the Lakers won't do that.

I personally don't see Griffin as a throw in type player, which it feels like he is in this deal. Yes he has fallen out of the rotation, but Snyder, like Nate, doesn't necessarily play young players and Griffin dealt with personal issues and an injury earlier this season.

Hawks currently own #9 projected and #21. Magic are currently #15, but with DJM that likely gets worse. I am not sure they are looking to acquire additional 24 firsts as key components. It feels like Atlanta wants 2 futures as a useful player in return.

This one has been discussed a bunch. I think the usual determination is Hawks don’t want to throw in towel for expirings and picks for Murray. Magic should include Jett, and Hawks will as for Black.

Personally I think a 3rd team is needed. One that can produce a better shinny object for Hawks.

To Magic: Murray + Capela + Matthews

To OKC: WCJ + Fultz

To Hawks: Dort (perfect next to Trae) + Bertans + Jett + 24 Magic Swap (Hawks get best 2x of Hawks, Kings, Magic - Magic worst) + 25 Nugs 1st (via Magic) + 25 Magic 1st (top 8 protected)

Skybox wrote:

BK_2020 wrote:Even the Lakers can beat that offer.

How would they? I doubt it…I would think ATL, having Trae onboard, may not be too excited about a pick in 2030 versus more immediate gratification. If it’s a bidding war, ORL has much more to offer. LAL is scraping around and (rightfully) unwilling to include good players as they are absolutely win-now and their roster is top-heavy with maxed out stars.

I don’t doubt LAL gets him - but only because ORL hasn’t shown any balls in making risky moves and LAL is more desperate/ urgent with their very real title hopes resting on a 39 year old GOAT.

If what ATL desperately wants is a bunch of bad picks right away then they can always trade the Lakers 29 or 30 pick to OKC or something. Atlanta's not in a position where they have to make a move with urgency. They can always trade Dejounte in the off-season. If anything, Orlando which has a losing record in 2024 and are 13-18 since December is the more desperate team.

dms269 wrote:

Skybox wrote:ORL could add Ingles & Okeke (TO & expiring) and take back Bogdonavic.

I don't see a reason why Atlanta would do that.

Skybox wrote:If Dejounte goes to LAL for Russell and some distant crappy pick, I will never understand it.

I don't think anyone can say that the Lakers 29 would be acrappy pick. But the rumors are that Atlanta wants Reaves in the deal (probably as well) and the Lakers won't do that.

I personally don't see Griffin as a throw in type player, which it feels like he is in this deal. Yes he has fallen out of the rotation, but Snyder, like Nate, doesn't necessarily play young players and Griffin dealt with personal issues and an injury earlier this season.

Hawks currently own #9 projected and #21. Magic are currently #15, but with DJM that likely gets worse. I am not sure they are looking to acquire additional 24 firsts as key components. It feels like Atlanta wants 2 futures as a useful player in return.

They could take whatever years they like…from ORL perspective, the sooner the better as they have so many young’uns already.

I value Griffin…but, like I alluded to- DJM is not going to get 3 real frps on his own, I figure Griffin, at present, is a late first market value, but maybe less for ATL since Bey has essentially taken his spot with similar profile. I’d add a couple srps so ATL could wave the “look what we got” banner because I think the fit for ORL is so good.

From what I’ve read, my understanding is it’s all about picks and NOT taking on more salary for ATL. I would certainly understand if that’s not true as Trae isn’t going to patiently wait very long…I assume picks & expirings are for a BIG active summer.

BK_2020 wrote:

Skybox wrote:

BK_2020 wrote:Even the Lakers can beat that offer.

How would they? I doubt it…I would think ATL, having Trae onboard, may not be too excited about a pick in 2030 versus more immediate gratification. If it’s a bidding war, ORL has much more to offer. LAL is scraping around and (rightfully) unwilling to include good players as they are absolutely win-now and their roster is top-heavy with maxed out stars.

I don’t doubt LAL gets him - but only because ORL hasn’t shown any balls in making risky moves and LAL is more desperate/ urgent with their very real title hopes resting on a 39 year old GOAT.

If what ATL desperately wants is a bunch of bad picks right away then they can always trade the Lakers 29 or 30 pick to OKC or something. Atlanta's not in a position where they have to make a move with urgency. They can always trade Dejounte in the off-season. If anything, Orlando which has a losing record in 2024 and are 13-18 since December is the more desperate team.

ORLs best players are 21 and under…they are way ahead of schedule…”desperate “ is an absurd word to label them with

Any year that LAL doesn’t win a ring is a total failure for them…that is a desperate situation. A great situation, but as desperate as it gets. Same with GSW. There’s only one goal for them…like BOS did with their absolutely all-in financial madness. If any of them don’t win it all, they look kind of stupid…I hope ORL gets there- but not close to desperation yet.

BK_2020 wrote:Even the Lakers can beat that offer.

with what, picks in the 2030's?

BK_2020 wrote:

Skybox wrote:

BK_2020 wrote:Even the Lakers can beat that offer.

How would they? I doubt it…I would think ATL, having Trae onboard, may not be too excited about a pick in 2030 versus more immediate gratification. If it’s a bidding war, ORL has much more to offer. LAL is scraping around and (rightfully) unwilling to include good players as they are absolutely win-now and their roster is top-heavy with maxed out stars.

I don’t doubt LAL gets him - but only because ORL hasn’t shown any balls in making risky moves and LAL is more desperate/ urgent with their very real title hopes resting on a 39 year old GOAT.

If what ATL desperately wants is a bunch of bad picks right away then they can always trade the Lakers 29 or 30 pick to OKC or something. Atlanta's not in a position where they have to make a move with urgency. They can always trade Dejounte in the off-season. If anything, Orlando which has a losing record in 2024 and are 13-18 since December is the more desperate team.

i live in Atlanta. i wouldnt say there isnt urgency. The team has floundered since that ECF run years back. they have lost the casual fan support and have never been a big draw. most nights, there is as many fans of the visiting team as the home team. i dont think the Murray/Young pairing has been what they thought and Murray definitely isnt happy with Young's turnstile defense.

And Orlando was dealing with an injuries including to their #2 player in Franz. find me many teams that lose their #2 player and dont lose some games. meanwhile, they have won 3 of last 4 games, including beating Phoenix and Minnesota and 2 pt loss to Dallas. This move wouldnt be out of urgency, but to make a move to go deeper.

Skybox wrote:

BK_2020 wrote:

Skybox wrote:
How would they? I doubt it…I would think ATL, having Trae onboard, may not be too excited about a pick in 2030 versus more immediate gratification. If it’s a bidding war, ORL has much more to offer. LAL is scraping around and (rightfully) unwilling to include good players as they are absolutely win-now and their roster is top-heavy with maxed out stars.

I don’t doubt LAL gets him - but only because ORL hasn’t shown any balls in making risky moves and LAL is more desperate/ urgent with their very real title hopes resting on a 39 year old GOAT.

If what ATL desperately wants is a bunch of bad picks right away then they can always trade the Lakers 29 or 30 pick to OKC or something. Atlanta's not in a position where they have to make a move with urgency. They can always trade Dejounte in the off-season. If anything, Orlando which has a losing record in 2024 and are 13-18 since December is the more desperate team.

ORLs best players are 21 and under…they are way ahead of schedule…”desperate “ is an absurd word to label them with

Any year that LAL doesn’t win a ring is a total failure for them…that is a desperate situation. A great situation, but as desperate as it gets. Same with GSW. There’s only one goal for them…like BOS did with their absolutely all-in financial madness. If any of them don’t win it all, they look kind of stupid…I hope ORL gets there- but not close to desperation yet.

The Lakers gross double the revenue of the Magic. They have the 2nd highest revenue in the NBA, the Magic have the 3rd lowest. Atlanta is middle of the pack. All three are play-in tier teams. You tell me which team has the greatest urgency to get better soon.

BK_2020 wrote:

Skybox wrote:

BK_2020 wrote:If what ATL desperately wants is a bunch of bad picks right away then they can always trade the Lakers 29 or 30 pick to OKC or something. Atlanta's not in a position where they have to make a move with urgency. They can always trade Dejounte in the off-season. If anything, Orlando which has a losing record in 2024 and are 13-18 since December is the more desperate team.

ORLs best players are 21 and under…they are way ahead of schedule…”desperate “ is an absurd word to label them with

Any year that LAL doesn’t win a ring is a total failure for them…that is a desperate situation. A great situation, but as desperate as it gets. Same with GSW. There’s only one goal for them…like BOS did with their absolutely all-in financial madness. If any of them don’t win it all, they look kind of stupid…I hope ORL gets there- but not close to desperation yet.

The Lakers gross double the revenue of the Magic. They have the 2nd highest revenue in the NBA, the Magic have the 3rd lowest. Atlanta is middle of the pack. All three are play-in tier teams. You tell me which team has the greatest urgency to get better soon.

color me surprised that a town with 10x the population has double the revenue. who has the greatest urgency? its LA by far. Lebron isnt 29 anymore

tiderulz wrote:

BK_2020 wrote:

Skybox wrote:
ORLs best players are 21 and under…they are way ahead of schedule…”desperate “ is an absurd word to label them with

Any year that LAL doesn’t win a ring is a total failure for them…that is a desperate situation. A great situation, but as desperate as it gets. Same with GSW. There’s only one goal for them…like BOS did with their absolutely all-in financial madness. If any of them don’t win it all, they look kind of stupid…I hope ORL gets there- but not close to desperation yet.

The Lakers gross double the revenue of the Magic. They have the 2nd highest revenue in the NBA, the Magic have the 3rd lowest. Atlanta is middle of the pack. All three are play-in tier teams. You tell me which team has the greatest urgency to get better soon.

color me surprised that a town with 20x the population has double the revenue. who has the greatest urgency? its LA by far. Lebron isnt 29 anymore

That's my point. If you are a small-market team you have to strike when the iron is hot. You are not the Lakers and you won't gross top 3 revenue just by existing. You as fan might not care how many millions go into the owner's pockets but I assure you the Magic FO does.

BK_2020 wrote:

tiderulz wrote:

BK_2020 wrote:The Lakers gross double the revenue of the Magic. They have the 2nd highest revenue in the NBA, the Magic have the 3rd lowest. Atlanta is middle of the pack. All three are play-in tier teams. You tell me which team has the greatest urgency to get better soon.

color me surprised that a town with 20x the population has double the revenue. who has the greatest urgency? its LA by far. Lebron isnt 29 anymore

That's my point. If you are a small-market team you have to strike when the iron is hot. You are not the Lakers and you won't gross top 3 revenue just by existing. You as fan might not care how many millions go into the owner's pockets but I assure you the Magic FO does.

Magic Owners have never skimped on spending money. they arent cheap owners only in it for the revenue. and this front office definitely doesnt move with urgency. and the Magic arent like the Lakers or Boston, paying tens of millions in luxury penalties, the owners are making money

Skybox wrote:

dms269 wrote:

Skybox wrote:ORL could add Ingles & Okeke (TO & expiring) and take back Bogdonavic.

I don't see a reason why Atlanta would do that.

Skybox wrote:If Dejounte goes to LAL for Russell and some distant crappy pick, I will never understand it.

I don't think anyone can say that the Lakers 29 would be acrappy pick. But the rumors are that Atlanta wants Reaves in the deal (probably as well) and the Lakers won't do that.

I personally don't see Griffin as a throw in type player, which it feels like he is in this deal. Yes he has fallen out of the rotation, but Snyder, like Nate, doesn't necessarily play young players and Griffin dealt with personal issues and an injury earlier this season.

Hawks currently own #9 projected and #21. Magic are currently #15, but with DJM that likely gets worse. I am not sure they are looking to acquire additional 24 firsts as key components. It feels like Atlanta wants 2 futures as a useful player in return.

They could take whatever years they like…from ORL perspective, the sooner the better as they have so many young’uns already.

I value Griffin…but, like I alluded to- DJM is not going to get 3 real frps on his own, I figure Griffin, at present, is a late first market value, but maybe less for ATL since Bey has essentially taken his spot with similar profile. I’d add a couple srps so ATL could wave the “look what we got” banner because I think the fit for ORL is so good.

From what I’ve read, my understanding is it’s all about picks and NOT taking on more salary for ATL. I would certainly understand if that’s not true as Trae isn’t going to patiently wait very long…I assume picks & expirings are for a BIG active summer.

For Atlanta, the sooner isn't necessarily better. I highly doubt Atlanta would even use the picks. They don't control their next 3 firsts after this season, so they are likely going to use them to flip for talent.

From Atlanta perspective, I think cutting salary is important. Ressler doesn't want to pay the tax. However there are other options in doing so (getting rid of Capela, not signing Bey to a deal, ect.). I with a DJM trade expiring salary is nice, but they also want a usable piece.

Like has been reported from the Atlanta camp, they are not in a rush to move DJM by the deadline. If the market isn't giving them what they want, they likely sit on him until the offseason. They have been reported to want 2 picks and a usable talent.

tiderulz wrote:

BK_2020 wrote:

tiderulz wrote:color me surprised that a town with 20x the population has double the revenue. who has the greatest urgency? its LA by far. Lebron isnt 29 anymore

That's my point. If you are a small-market team you have to strike when the iron is hot. You are not the Lakers and you won't gross top 3 revenue just by existing. You as fan might not care how many millions go into the owner's pockets but I assure you the Magic FO does.

Magic Owners have never skimped on spending money. they arent cheap owners only in it for the revenue. and this front office definitely doesnt move with urgency. and the Magic arent like the Lakers or Boston, paying tens of millions in luxury penalties, the owners are making money

The Lakers gross over $250 mil more than the Magic. Their luxury tax bill is $3 mil.

tiderulz wrote:

BK_2020 wrote:

Skybox wrote:
How would they? I doubt it…I would think ATL, having Trae onboard, may not be too excited about a pick in 2030 versus more immediate gratification. If it’s a bidding war, ORL has much more to offer. LAL is scraping around and (rightfully) unwilling to include good players as they are absolutely win-now and their roster is top-heavy with maxed out stars.

I don’t doubt LAL gets him - but only because ORL hasn’t shown any balls in making risky moves and LAL is more desperate/ urgent with their very real title hopes resting on a 39 year old GOAT.

If what ATL desperately wants is a bunch of bad picks right away then they can always trade the Lakers 29 or 30 pick to OKC or something. Atlanta's not in a position where they have to make a move with urgency. They can always trade Dejounte in the off-season. If anything, Orlando which has a losing record in 2024 and are 13-18 since December is the more desperate team.

i live in Atlanta. i wouldnt say there isnt urgency. The team has floundered since that ECF run years back. they have lost the casual fan support and have never been a big draw. most nights, there is as many fans of the visiting team as the home team. i dont think the Murray/Young pairing has been what they thought and Murray definitely isnt happy with Young's turnstile defense.

And Orlando was dealing with an injuries including to their #2 player in Franz. find me many teams that lose their #2 player and dont lose some games. meanwhile, they have won 3 of last 4 games, including beating Phoenix and Minnesota and 2 pt loss to Dallas. This move wouldnt be out of urgency, but to make a move to go deeper.

This is far from accurate. First hawks were at 104% capacity in 2023 which was #2 in the nba behind the Mavs. Since hawks have had Trae they regularly sell out games.

Also not sure where you got that Murray info. Hawks are better on defense when Trae is on the floor this year so not sure how Murray would blame that all on Traes defense.

Ball4life32 wrote:

tiderulz wrote:

BK_2020 wrote:If what ATL desperately wants is a bunch of bad picks right away then they can always trade the Lakers 29 or 30 pick to OKC or something. Atlanta's not in a position where they have to make a move with urgency. They can always trade Dejounte in the off-season. If anything, Orlando which has a losing record in 2024 and are 13-18 since December is the more desperate team.

i live in Atlanta. i wouldnt say there isnt urgency. The team has floundered since that ECF run years back. they have lost the casual fan support and have never been a big draw. most nights, there is as many fans of the visiting team as the home team. i dont think the Murray/Young pairing has been what they thought and Murray definitely isnt happy with Young's turnstile defense.

And Orlando was dealing with an injuries including to their #2 player in Franz. find me many teams that lose their #2 player and dont lose some games. meanwhile, they have won 3 of last 4 games, including beating Phoenix and Minnesota and 2 pt loss to Dallas. This move wouldnt be out of urgency, but to make a move to go deeper.

This is far from accurate. First hawks were at 104% capacity in 2023 which was #2 in the nba behind the Mavs. Since hawks have had Trae they regularly sell out games.

Also not sure where you got that Murray info. Hawks are better on defense when Trae is on the floor this year so not sure how Murray would blame that all on Traes defense.

Atlanta arena holds just over 19k people. Hawks averaged 17k in attendance in 2023. Not sure how that equals 104% capacity. And again, i live in Atlanta, close to half the people that go wear colors from the visiting team. the Hawks behind in popularity to UGA, Braves and Falcons. Trae has helped somewhat, but they still need to win to get more fans and the current team isnt doing it.

tiderulz wrote:

Ball4life32 wrote:

tiderulz wrote:i live in Atlanta. i wouldnt say there isnt urgency. The team has floundered since that ECF run years back. they have lost the casual fan support and have never been a big draw. most nights, there is as many fans of the visiting team as the home team. i dont think the Murray/Young pairing has been what they thought and Murray definitely isnt happy with Young's turnstile defense.

And Orlando was dealing with an injuries including to their #2 player in Franz. find me many teams that lose their #2 player and dont lose some games. meanwhile, they have won 3 of last 4 games, including beating Phoenix and Minnesota and 2 pt loss to Dallas. This move wouldnt be out of urgency, but to make a move to go deeper.

This is far from accurate. First hawks were at 104% capacity in 2023 which was #2 in the nba behind the Mavs. Since hawks have had Trae they regularly sell out games.

Also not sure where you got that Murray info. Hawks are better on defense when Trae is on the floor this year so not sure how Murray would blame that all on Traes defense.

Atlanta arena holds just over 19k people. Hawks averaged 17k in attendance in 2023. Not sure how that equals 104% capacity. And again, i live in Atlanta, close to half the people that go wear colors from the visiting team. the Hawks behind in popularity to UGA, Braves and Falcons. Trae has helped somewhat, but they still need to win to get more fans and the current team isnt doing it.

I regularly go to games and there is no way half the fans are opposing fans. This is maybe old hawks when they played big market teams like the Lakers. I do agree they aren’t as popular as those other teams though.

Also according to the State Farm site the arena holds 16,888 for basketball while hawks averaged 17,555 in 2023.
https://www.espn.com/nba/attendance/_/year/2023/sort/homePct

BK_2020 wrote:

tiderulz wrote:

BK_2020 wrote:The Lakers gross double the revenue of the Magic. They have the 2nd highest revenue in the NBA, the Magic have the 3rd lowest. Atlanta is middle of the pack. All three are play-in tier teams. You tell me which team has the greatest urgency to get better soon.

color me surprised that a town with 20x the population has double the revenue. who has the greatest urgency? its LA by far. Lebron isnt 29 anymore

That's my point. If you are a small-market team you have to strike when the iron is hot. You are not the Lakers and you won't gross top 3 revenue just by existing. You as fan might not care how many millions go into the owner's pockets but I assure you the Magic FO does.

this is a completely irrelevant sidebar. Both teams make money. LAL's valuation is off the charts of course...not news. That doesn't make ORL in danger of going bankrupt or being moved...LBJ is 39 - that's the urgency! This is a basketball question not a microeconomics comparison of two markets. You're not thinking on a higher level than us mere fans - you're injecting an irrelevant concept into a basketball issue. It's not news that small market teams rake in less, are more tax averse, and face a harder road in attracting FA's. There's also a very different level of expectation. LAL CANNOT simply ignore a window of opportunity - their fans and stars are there because they never do.

ORL can muddle along as they have, striving for mediocrity and maintaining it...and probably will. But this is a unique opportunity to capitalize on a perfect storm of inexpensive stars in the making, extra picks and a ton of cap space available to address a glaring basketball need. They could improve tremendously without breaking the bank or getting into the tax aprons. That's opportunity - not desperation. See how LBJ reacts if LAL were to just say "we had some options but decided to opt for fiscal responsibility and organic internal growth".