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Ill offer this deal for:
-Raptors get a replacement SG to Trent Jr. in Mann and get a veteran in Tucker who can play minutes at the 4.
-Clippers get Brown who can start at the 3 and Clippers clear up roster spot

To Toronto
-P.J. Tucker (1 year, $11.5 million player option)
-Terrence Mann (1 year, $11.4 million)
-2030 Clippers 2nd round pick
-2031 Clippers 2nd round pick

To Los Angeles
-Bruce Brown (1 year, $23 million team option)

Why?
The Raptors get Mann who can replace Trent Jr. as Raptors can let him walk and keep flexibility for 2025 off-season. Tucker can get minutes at the 4 and then seek a buyout this time next year. Raptors get 2 distant 2nds as well

Quickley/FA?/Indiana 1st
Mann/Dick/Liberty
Barrett/Agbaji/McDaniels
Barnes/Olynyk/Tucker
Poeltl/Boucher/Pistons 2nd

The Clippers get Brown who could start at the 3 for the Clippers as they clear up a roster spot to use exemption money on young rotational pieces.

Harden/Westbrook/Hyland
George/Powell/Boston
Brown/FA?/Coffee
Leonard/Brown/FA?
Zubac/Plumlee/Theis

Clippers can't combine outgoing salary

I have Mann as more valuable than Brown especially when you account for salary difference

Not taking cba into account, Clippers aren't going to go from refusing to include T for Harden into adding value for a minimal, if even that, move here.

ejftw wrote:Not taking cba into account, Clippers aren't going to go from refusing to include T for Harden into adding value for a minimal, if even that, move here.

Different situation. They knew they had Harden in the bag. Philly wasn’t going to be able to trade anywhere else.

With Brown, they have to put in a real offer. They’re not gonna be able to resign Mann given their payroll. Brown gives them a better chance in the playoffs.

MessiahUjiri wrote:

ejftw wrote:Not taking cba into account, Clippers aren't going to go from refusing to include T for Harden into adding value for a minimal, if even that, move here.

Different situation. They knew they had Harden in the bag. Philly wasn’t going to be able to trade anywhere else.

With Brown, they have to put in a real offer. They’re not gonna be able to resign Mann given their payroll. Brown gives them a better chance in the playoffs.

Not really, they could've avoided the gymnastics to get another first.

And I doubt the latter part. Resigning Mann is much easier considering birds and T likes it here.

ejftw wrote:

MessiahUjiri wrote:

ejftw wrote:Not taking cba into account, Clippers aren't going to go from refusing to include T for Harden into adding value for a minimal, if even that, move here.

Different situation. They knew they had Harden in the bag. Philly wasn’t going to be able to trade anywhere else.

With Brown, they have to put in a real offer. They’re not gonna be able to resign Mann given their payroll. Brown gives them a better chance in the playoffs.

Not really, they could've avoided the gymnastics to get another first.

And I doubt the latter part. Resigning Mann is much easier considering birds and T likes it here.

Harden wasn’t going anywhere else. They knew they could lowball and win.


In this case, the reason they would replace Mann for Brown is because Brown can help them in the post season more than Mann. TBH I think it’s a pure championship maximization play.

I don’t even think it’s a great offer for the Raps. I’m just pointing out not to use the Harden trade as a baseline for getting any good players.

MessiahUjiri wrote:

ejftw wrote:

MessiahUjiri wrote:

Different situation. They knew they had Harden in the bag. Philly wasn’t going to be able to trade anywhere else.

With Brown, they have to put in a real offer. They’re not gonna be able to resign Mann given their payroll. Brown gives them a better chance in the playoffs.

Not really, they could've avoided the gymnastics to get another first.

And I doubt the latter part. Resigning Mann is much easier considering birds and T likes it here.

Harden wasn’t going anywhere else. They knew they could lowball and win.


In this case, the reason they would replace Mann for Brown is because Brown can help them in the post season more than Mann. TBH I think it’s a pure championship maximization play.

I don’t even think it’s a great offer for the Raps. I’m just pointing out not to use the Harden trade as a baseline for getting any good players.

I'm a Bruce Brown fan, and have been since watching him during his rookie season with Detroit. I also had multiple posts on this board suggesting Toronto make Brown their top priority in 2022 (instead of Thad+OPJ) when he was a FA. I might prefer Brown over Mann if they were paid the same salaries because of Brown's track record in the PS, although it's probably a fit/culture choice more than anything about on-court contribution.

But Brown at twice Mann's salary? Easy choice in favour of Mann. IMO there's zero chance LAC would add assets to a Brown-Mann swap.

oldncreaky wrote:

MessiahUjiri wrote:

ejftw wrote:
Not really, they could've avoided the gymnastics to get another first.

And I doubt the latter part. Resigning Mann is much easier considering birds and T likes it here.

Harden wasn’t going anywhere else. They knew they could lowball and win.


In this case, the reason they would replace Mann for Brown is because Brown can help them in the post season more than Mann. TBH I think it’s a pure championship maximization play.

I don’t even think it’s a great offer for the Raps. I’m just pointing out not to use the Harden trade as a baseline for getting any good players.

I'm a Bruce Brown fan, and have been since watching him during his rookie season with Detroit. I also had multiple posts on this board suggesting Toronto make Brown their top priority in 2022 (instead of Thad+OPJ) when he was a FA. I might prefer Brown over Mann if they were paid the same salaries because of Brown's track record in the PS, although it's probably a fit/culture choice more than anything about on-court contribution.

But Brown at twice Mann's salary? Easy choice in favour of Mann. IMO there's zero chance LAC would add assets to a Brown-Mann swap.

That math is not correct, because LAC are not taking on extra salary when trading for Brown.

The proposed trade here is Mann + Tucker (who would be dead weight salary and bought out).

The salary numbers are almost identical.

I don’t like the trade from Torontos pov either, but we need to be honest that LAC are not doubling Manns salary cap hit.

MessiahUjiri wrote:

ejftw wrote:

MessiahUjiri wrote:

Different situation. They knew they had Harden in the bag. Philly wasn’t going to be able to trade anywhere else.

With Brown, they have to put in a real offer. They’re not gonna be able to resign Mann given their payroll. Brown gives them a better chance in the playoffs.

Not really, they could've avoided the gymnastics to get another first.

And I doubt the latter part. Resigning Mann is much easier considering birds and T likes it here.

Harden wasn’t going anywhere else. They knew they could lowball and win.


In this case, the reason they would replace Mann for Brown is because Brown can help them in the post season more than Mann. TBH I think it’s a pure championship maximization play.

I don’t even think it’s a great offer for the Raps. I’m just pointing out not to use the Harden trade as a baseline for getting any good players.

Yet, they didn't, and had to go through extra lengths to "win." And it isn't just Harden, it's numerous other rumors throughout the year which T was kept out of. T also won a series for the Clips when he started at C, opposite of Gobert.

It's not like T is Amir Coffey, he's stepped up and did what was asked in the playoffs, same as Brown, just wasn't on a side that won it all to get this extra praise. Swap the two last year, and same result.

Bentley1225 wrote:Ill offer this deal for:
-Raptors get a replacement SG to Trent Jr. in Mann and get a veteran in Tucker who can play minutes at the 4.
-Clippers get Brown who can start at the 3 and Clippers clear up roster spot

To Toronto
-P.J. Tucker (1 year, $11.5 million player option)
-Terrence Mann (1 year, $11.4 million)
-2030 Clippers 2nd round pick
-2031 Clippers 2nd round pick

To Los Angeles
-Bruce Brown (1 year, $23 million team option)

Why?
The Raptors get Mann who can replace Trent Jr. as Raptors can let him walk and keep flexibility for 2025 off-season. Tucker can get minutes at the 4 and then seek a buyout this time next year. Raptors get 2 distant 2nds as well

Quickley/FA?/Indiana 1st
Mann/Dick/Liberty
Barrett/Agbaji/McDaniels
Barnes/Olynyk/Tucker
Poeltl/Boucher/Pistons 2nd

The Clippers get Brown who could start at the 3 for the Clippers as they clear up a roster spot to use exemption money on young rotational pieces.

Harden/Westbrook/Hyland
George/Powell/Boston
Brown/FA?/Coffee
Leonard/Brown/FA?
Zubac/Plumlee/Theis

Oh my word Bentley. Mann was the huge sticking point in a Harden deal with Philly. LA very easily says no. This is ridiculously short sighted.