Make the best win now moves for the Jazz.

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Make the best win now moves for the Jazz. 

Post#1 » by HadAnEffectHere » Wed Apr 10, 2024 7:14 pm

Let's say the Jazz's players (Markkanen and Sexton) would like to win now and the Jazz front office decides to go with that. What are some win now moves the Jazz can make with their assets other than Markkanen, Sexton, and Kessler?
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Re: Make the best win now moves for the Jazz. 

Post#2 » by JRoy » Wed Apr 10, 2024 7:21 pm

If Lauri and Sexton want to win now they should be traded somewhere to accommodate them while UTA continues to build.
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Re: Make the best win now moves for the Jazz. 

Post#3 » by tcheco » Wed Apr 10, 2024 7:44 pm

Hard to find a trade that makes them contenders right now. They could use a solid SF there that can defend at a good level, but none is available it seems. Keyonte and Hendricks being available for trade can make some pretty good packages, but still
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Re: Make the best win now moves for the Jazz. 

Post#4 » by jayjaysee » Wed Apr 10, 2024 7:52 pm

Utah can trade for any player available, they have the volume pick offer and have Hendricks (and George)..… The issue is there’s likely no “best player on contender” available. And that’s what Utah needs. The closest is Trae if he’s actually made available?

I really like them just trading for Murray using 2025 firsts this summer, locking up Lauri and being in the play-in and ready in case a true star becomes available. Seems realistic and doable, worst case you trade Lauri and Murray before they hit free agency in 3-4 years and start over then..

Something I was playing with that lacks some realism.. Could you trade George and “??” firsts and end up with both Bridges and Murray. Complicate it with a fourth team ending up with Collins to maximize the money you give Lauri… Still lacking a best player but that’s a really strong starting five and you’ve got Hendricks and some other pieces on the bench while still being in an asset surplus of some level..

Maybe instead if you’re willing to overpay Demar, you can probably get Demar for Collins+ done. Improves Utah. It’s not perfect, but it would be cheap and leaves room for Lauri money, while Demar might end up being the contract matching for “star” in a year or two..

IMO Utah would be better off trading Sexton and Lauri both and bottoming out completely. But I don’t know if that’s an option.
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Re: Make the best win now moves for the Jazz. 

Post#5 » by ChettheJet » Wed Apr 10, 2024 11:37 pm

I'd look at signing Demar DeRozan and moving John Collins to the Bulls. Gives the Jazz Lauri stretch and Demar mid range to score on the front line. The Bulls welcome an actual 6-10 PF something unheard of in CHI for quite some time
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Re: Make the best win now moves for the Jazz. 

Post#6 » by drosestruts » Wed Apr 10, 2024 11:52 pm

I see Spotrac estimating Utah to have ~$40m in cap space this summer, I think they use that and some future picks to take on some veteran players from Portland who should still be in tanking/re-building mode.

Utah in: Malcom Brogdon, Jerami Grant, and Robert Williams

Portland in: John Collins, Taylor Hendricks, 2025 Utah 1st, 2027 Lakers 1st
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Re: Make the best win now moves for the Jazz. 

Post#7 » by AingesBurner » Thu Apr 11, 2024 12:27 am

drosestruts wrote:I see Spotrac estimating Utah to have ~$40m in cap space this summer, I think they use that and some future picks to take on some veteran players from Portland who should still be in tanking/re-building mode.

Utah in: Malcom Brogdon, Jerami Grant, and Robert Williams

Portland in: John Collins, Taylor Hendricks, 2025 Utah 1st, 2027 Lakers 1st


Portlands players are not worth that.
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Re: Make the best win now moves for the Jazz. 

Post#8 » by babyjax13 » Thu Apr 11, 2024 12:55 am

drosestruts wrote:I see Spotrac estimating Utah to have ~$40m in cap space this summer, I think they use that and some future picks to take on some veteran players from Portland who should still be in tanking/re-building mode.

Utah in: Malcom Brogdon, Jerami Grant, and Robert Williams

Portland in: John Collins, Taylor Hendricks, 2025 Utah 1st, 2027 Lakers 1st

Take out the picks and I still wouldn't do that.
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Re: Make the best win now moves for the Jazz. 

Post#9 » by babyjax13 » Thu Apr 11, 2024 12:57 am

We need cap space to R+E Lauri, which is essential for this. That means a lot of these deals need to happen after clearing space or during the year.
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Re: Make the best win now moves for the Jazz. 

Post#10 » by jazzfan1971 » Thu Apr 11, 2024 1:43 am

Assume Philly puts Embiid on the market. Offer everything other than Lauri and sexton. Try to convince them to use held as filler.

Embiid
Lauri

Held
Sexton

Fill rest of roster holes as best as you can.
"Thibs called back and wanted more picks," said Jorge Sedano. "And Pat Riley, literally, I was told, called him a mother-bleeper and hung up the phone."
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Re: Make the best win now moves for the Jazz. 

Post#11 » by babyjax13 » Thu Apr 11, 2024 1:58 am

Best non rookie contract players on bad to okay teams:
Atlanta: Trae Young, DeJounte Murray, Clint Capela, Bogdan Bogdanovic
Brooklyn: Cam Johnson, Mikal Bridges, Dorian Finney-Smith, Nic Claxton
Charlotte: LaMelo Ball, Miles Bridges (free agent)
Chicago: Zach LaVine, De Mar DeRozan (free agent), Alex Caruso, Ayo Dosunmu
Detroit: Isaiah Stewart, Simone Fontecchio (free agent)
Houston: Dillon Brooks, Fred VanVleet (probably not trading)
Portland: Jerami Grant, Anfernee Simons, Robert Williams, Matisse Thybulle, Malcolm Brogdon
San Antonio: Keldon Johnson, Devin Vassell
Toronto: Bruce Brown, Jakob Poeltl
Washington: Deni Avdija (probably not trading), Tyus Jones (free agent)

I think the exercise is easiest if you are going for players from teams that might be about to rebuild, or who have young players who are about to overtake older counterparts. Not all of these guys fit that, but some do. With what the Jazz have + these players, can you create a contender? It feels like to do that the best chance is building around Trae, but I don't believe he's actually available...so, how would something like:

DeJounte Murray
Mikal Bridges
Cam Johnson
Lauri Markkenen
Jakob Poeltl

look? Is that a contender? I'm not convinced it is, and I think you can make some reasonable substitutions with other guys on the list (I just think these players might look nice together to where "the sum is greater than its parts") and not end up with a contender.

The next question would be: given the assets you trade, can you trade for an available star afterward? Seems like the answer is probably not.
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Re: Make the best win now moves for the Jazz. 

Post#12 » by Wolveswin » Thu Apr 11, 2024 3:41 am

Like others, I am going after Murray. I think Hawks would like Clarkson as a SG backfill. Add some picks.

Then, I am helping Suns rebuild. As much as I would like Booker direct, I know they need their picks back.

To Nets: Booker

To Suns: Collins + George + Hendricks + All Suns 1sts back + Jazz picks

To Suns: KD + Filler

Final win-now roster:

Kessler
Markkanen or KD
KD or Markkanen
Sexton
Murray
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Re: Make the best win now moves for the Jazz. 

Post#13 » by bkohler » Thu Apr 11, 2024 3:47 am

I think it very much depends on how you define 'winning now.' As Babyjax, I think, has shown, you can put together a team that might compete for the 6 spots in the west, maybe? I don't see a world where the Jazz can add one or two mid-level stars and be better than the Nuggets, Wolves, Thunder, Mavs, or Pels in the next few years. Add Mikal and Dejounte to Lauri and are you better than any of those teams as currently constructed? I'd say probably not.
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Re: Make the best win now moves for the Jazz. 

Post#14 » by meekrab » Thu Apr 11, 2024 4:01 am

jazzfan1971 wrote:Assume Philly puts Embiid on the market.

Could just as well assume Dallas puts Luka on the market.
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Re: Make the best win now moves for the Jazz. 

Post#15 » by Chinook » Thu Apr 11, 2024 4:12 am

I wouldn't discount how Utah's pick this year would come into play. One of the places their draft capital will go farthest is trading up, and they still do have a realistic chance at winning a top spot straight out. Draft the right guy, make a big signing, swing a trade and bring in some vet competition, and I think they'd have a play-in team. It's going to be hard to get a top-six spot locked down unless some teams decline really fast.
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Re: Make the best win now moves for the Jazz. 

Post#16 » by HadAnEffectHere » Thu Apr 11, 2024 12:19 pm

Chinook wrote:I wouldn't discount how Utah's pick this year would come into play. One of the places their draft capital will go farthest is trading up, and they still do have a realistic chance at winning a top spot straight out. Draft the right guy, make a big signing, swing a trade and bring in some vet competition, and I think they'd have a play-in team. It's going to be hard to get a top-six spot locked down unless some teams decline really fast.


None of the players this year are ready to contribute other than maybe Clingan. Every other player is either badly lacking in the shooting, defense, or physical maturity needed to help win games in the first couple years.
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Re: Make the best win now moves for the Jazz. 

Post#17 » by Chinook » Thu Apr 11, 2024 12:53 pm

HadAnEffectHere wrote:
Chinook wrote:I wouldn't discount how Utah's pick this year would come into play. One of the places their draft capital will go farthest is trading up, and they still do have a realistic chance at winning a top spot straight out. Draft the right guy, make a big signing, swing a trade and bring in some vet competition, and I think they'd have a play-in team. It's going to be hard to get a top-six spot locked down unless some teams decline really fast.


None of the players this year are ready to contribute other than maybe Clingan. Every other player is either badly lacking in the shooting, defense, or physical maturity needed to help win games in the first couple years.


Yeah, I don't believe that for a second.
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Re: Make the best win now moves for the Jazz. 

Post#18 » by HadAnEffectHere » Thu Apr 11, 2024 12:56 pm

Chinook wrote:
HadAnEffectHere wrote:
Chinook wrote:I wouldn't discount how Utah's pick this year would come into play. One of the places their draft capital will go farthest is trading up, and they still do have a realistic chance at winning a top spot straight out. Draft the right guy, make a big signing, swing a trade and bring in some vet competition, and I think they'd have a play-in team. It's going to be hard to get a top-six spot locked down unless some teams decline really fast.


None of the players this year are ready to contribute other than maybe Clingan. Every other player is either badly lacking in the shooting, defense, or physical maturity needed to help win games in the first couple years.


Yeah, I don't believe that for a second.


There were 7 total players from the 2023 draft who

1. Played more than 400 minutes
2. Had a VORP of greater than 0 (meaning that they were better than a replacement level player)

And this draft is much worse than 2023.

Rookies just don't contribute to winning much at all other than truly transcendent players like Wemby or limited role players who are usually already older.

Going through ESPN's big board:

Risahcer-Currently too thin to defend and defense is his main strength.
Sarr- Too thin to defend in the post right now
Clingan - Maybe
Dillingham - Too horrible at defense to help a team win right now
Topic - Too afraid to shoot to help on offense right now, too thin to defend right now
Matas - Too thin and slow on defense, can't shoot right now
Sheppard - Maybe
Knecht - Too horrible at defense to help a team win right now
Castle - Too afraid of shooting to help a team win right now
Cody Williams - Too thin and slow and unskilled to help a team win
Isaiah Collier - Too horrible at shooting and uncaring about winning to help a team win
JaKobe Walter - Too thin to defend right now
Ron Holland - Too horrible at shooting right now
Zach Edey - Needs massive adjustment offensively in NBA, terrible defender, not ready at all
Tidjane Salaun - Too horrible at defense and offense, huge project
Filipowski - Too bad at shooting right now

You have to shoot and defend to your positional average at least to help a team win in the NBA unless you're an elite scorer (none of these guys are) and almost no one is there yet. Too young.
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Re: Make the best win now moves for the Jazz. 

Post#19 » by brackdan70 » Thu Apr 11, 2024 7:59 pm

Utah is not in a position to make win now moves. It’s a process and will take several years to get into that position unless they luck out and get a superstar in the draft.
Jordan Walsh > Lonnie Walker and Charles Bassey
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Re: Make the best win now moves for the Jazz. 

Post#20 » by brackdan70 » Thu Apr 11, 2024 8:04 pm

Wolveswin wrote:Like others, I am going after Murray. I think Hawks would like Clarkson as a SG backfill. Add some picks.

Then, I am helping Suns rebuild. As much as I would like Booker direct, I know they need their picks back.

To Nets: Booker

To Suns: Collins + George + Hendricks + All Suns 1sts back + Jazz picks

To Suns: KD + Filler

Final win-now roster:

Kessler
Markkanen or KD
KD or Markkanen
Sexton
Murray

I can’t see Suns doing that. Utah needs to give up Markanen, Kessler and reverse protect picks to get even close
Jordan Walsh > Lonnie Walker and Charles Bassey

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