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jbk1234 wrote:The problem, as always, is CJ. The Pelicans aren't in a position to be paying their backcourt $60M when Murphy comes off his rookie deal. Now maybe they can get the Mavs to part with Lively for a few picks and lengthen that runway a bit, but that Lakers matchup is doing a pretty good job of demonstrating the defensive limitations of Zion, JV, and Nance.

Why would Dallas do that for just picks?

daoneandonly wrote:

jbk1234 wrote:The problem, as always, is CJ. The Pelicans aren't in a position to be paying their backcourt $60M when Murphy comes off his rookie deal. Now maybe they can get the Mavs to part with Lively for a few picks and lengthen that runway a bit, but that Lakers matchup is doing a pretty good job of demonstrating the defensive limitations of Zion, JV, and Nance.

Why would Dallas do that for just picks?

No idea. That's why I said maybe. Might have to be a three team trade.

jbk1234 wrote:

daoneandonly wrote:

jbk1234 wrote:The problem, as always, is CJ. The Pelicans aren't in a position to be paying their backcourt $60M when Murphy comes off his rookie deal. Now maybe they can get the Mavs to part with Lively for a few picks and lengthen that runway a bit, but that Lakers matchup is doing a pretty good job of demonstrating the defensive limitations of Zion, JV, and Nance.

Why would Dallas do that for just picks?

No idea. That's why I said maybe. Might have to be a three team trade.

Nah, I doubt Dallas gives New Orleans Derrick Lively without getting something excellent back, just dont see it

This is very close in value, i just dont think it makes the Pelicans a better team. They need to keep Ingram use their picks to trade for a PG IMO.
Edit: i dont know why i didnt read the OP, I was thinking it was Ingram for Murray straight up. I believe they are close in value. Without Griffin and the pick

Skybox wrote:

Threezus wrote:

Euphonetiks wrote:
Does he still play hellacious defense? Every metric shows him as a below average defender this year and worse than Ingram. And despite running point, he only averages 0.2 more assists per 100 posessions than Ingram.

Here is the misconception on that yes he does play hellacious defense still but only at PG. When Trae is on the floor and Murray is forced to be a SG against much bigger guys at times he loses a bit of his advantage and has to cover for Traes mistakes a good bit.

When Trae was out with injuries this last month or so about 20+ games. Our defense as a whole went from like 30th on defense to top 5 to 10 for a good chunk of that run. Murray was a monster when he was back being a PG defending other PG's allowing JJ and Hunter to guard the other SG's.

So if you plan on running Murray at his natural position of PG then yes you will get the Spurs and Traeless Hawks murray defense. If you plan on running him at SG then you probably lose out on it a bit.

Defensive effort is definitely contagious...put him next to Trae, then put him next to Suggs and see what happens. ORL's whole team vibe is defense and DJM is an emotional hard case...I have no doubt he'd buy in all the way.

Yeah Murray 100% plays with his heart on his sleeve thats one of my favorite traits about him. When he buys in he is fully bought in and giving you everything every play. Everyone already knows i want to keep him over Trae at Pg and then trade Trae for a much better package and have a easier chance of building a legit 2 way team.

I think Ingram and Murray are a wash value wise with Murray being locked into a really good contract and Ingram only have one year left. Throwing in the 10th pick and Griffin is overkill. I think the trade makes a lot of sense from a talent perspective for both teams with Ingram being a great fit with the hawks and Murray being a great fit for the pelicans.

On paper it looks nice...but the Hawks' defense does not improve with this trade and it makes things a little more complicated for them financially in the future, that is without taking into account Ingram's availability problems and that Bogdan can do much of what BI would give you...I'm asking for Herb Jones+Daniels+Filling for Murray... If you want to go all out, continue with..

Okongwu+Griffin+Hawks FRP for Miles Turner+Mcconell(TPE)..

TYoung needs good role players to shine..build for the

Trae/Bogdan/Herb/Johnson/Turner
TJ/Bufkin/Daniels/Bey?/Capela

or (select Clingan)

sip wrote:I think Ingram and Murray are a wash value wise with Murray being locked into a really good contract and Ingram only have one year left. .

This is my biggest worry. Hawks can't afford to lose Ingram for nothing.

Yeah I think people are being prisoners of the moment a bit here. BI just returned from injury and he's still rusty. I think the low average games and the one year left on the contract are relevant.

However, this is the first year Murray has ever scored more points per game than Ingram but he was less efficient than BI. Murray has been a bad defender for several years now. Ingram was both significantly better on defense this year and has much more of an ability to switch in the playoffs. In Murray's defense, he shot well and often from 3.

Ingram was much more of a winning player as well generally with a higher net rating.

If the 3 ball holds theres interesting potential to pair Z with Murray, especially if he can get his defensive intensity back up but I think BI is a better player even with the differences in contract.