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Atlanta sends Young to the Pelicans for Ingram, Daniels, 24 FRP and 25 FRP.

Pelicans get the PG they need to make everyone better. Move on from Ingram with Murphy/Jones in waiting. Young makes everything easier for everyone (except defensively)

Hawks get a SF/PF running late for Johnson. Draft someone such as Collier with own pick, draft big with the NOP pick. Move nearly everyone else and rebuild on the fly.

This is probably closer to Murray's value than Trae's.

I like base but think Atl needs a decent amount ore value.

As unrealistic or rare as superstar trades are, I would add a Hunter/CJM swap or a Hunter+Capela for CJM+Nance type deal.

dms269 wrote:This is probably closer to Murray's value than Trae's.

This.

This trade had been discussed a lot. I think:

Murphy is needed. Key piece. Murphy and Jalen Johnson can be key Hawks pillars for many years.

Murphy + McCollum + Picks

FOR

Trae + _________

__________ can be a lot of players. Capela for example. Okongwu. Hunter.

Couple things…I can’t speak for the Pels front office but Trae has minimal appeal for me and although I believe his value is higher than Ingram’s I wouldn’t trade him for Ingram straight up because of how bad his defense is.

Murray has some appeal but I think this idea that he is better than Ingram is a reflection of recency bias. Murray has become a better, more willing shooter than BI but this is the first year he’s ever scored more points than BI and he was a worse defender than BI this year. He has been a bad defender for 3 years. I hope he can turn it around but this is a fact right now.

I think this idea that a BI/ Murray trade will take multiple firsts and a young prospect is kinda overblown.

Also a Murray trade likely requires a CJ trade too which just adds to the complication.

Anyways this one has been discussed a bunch but I think BI has become underrated here which was exacerbated by his play in the playoffs, which is ironic because Murray didn’t make the playoffs and his team has performed worse than BI’s (with or without Zion) for the entirety of the year.

Wolveswin wrote:

dms269 wrote:This is probably closer to Murray's value than Trae's.

This.

This trade had been discussed a lot. I think:

Murphy is needed. Key piece. Murphy and Jalen Johnson can be key Hawks pillars for many years.

Murphy + McCollum + Picks

FOR

Trae + _________

__________ can be a lot of players. Capela for example. Okongwu. Hunter.

Yeah I don’t think that happens. This trade creates as many problems as it solves and Trey is such a complimentary player to whoever we bring back next year that the value has to be a clear win. I just dont see it.

I think more people will see Trae as a player you can’t win with as compared to those that do. And if they do put him on the market, they will not get a better player today than Brandon Ingram. I’m just not so sure the Pels would be interested. There may be something to a BI/CJ for Trae/Capella trade as it sorts some of the salary situation for the Pels (Capella expiring when Trey Murphy’s extension kicks in). But such a big trade with such big money moving seems highly unlikely.

lordjeff05 wrote:Couple things…I can’t speak for the Pels front office but Trae has minimal appeal for me and although I believe his value is higher than Ingram’s I wouldn’t trade him for Ingram straight up because of how bad his defense is.

Murray has some appeal but I think this idea that he is better than Ingram is a reflection of recency bias. Murray has become a better, more willing shooter than BI but this is the first year he’s ever scored more points than BI and he was a worse defender than BI this year. He has been a bad defender for 3 years. I hope he can turn it around but this is a fact right now.

I think this idea that a BI/ Murray trade will take multiple firsts and a young prospect is kinda overblown.

Also a Murray trade likely requires a CJ trade too which just adds to the complication.

Anyways this one has been discussed a bunch but I think BI has become underrated here which was exacerbated by his play in the playoffs, which is ironic because Murray didn’t make the playoffs and his team has performed worse than BI’s (with or without Zion) for the entirety of the year.

In a vacuum BI likely does have more value. But you cannot look at player valuation without factoring in contracts. I think that is why many of us are saying Murray>Ingram because of BI being an expiring and likely commanding double what Murray is getting paid.

In terms of defense, Murray has been having to guard out of position more in Atlanta which isn't maximizing his strengths.

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lordjeff05 wrote:

Wolveswin wrote:

dms269 wrote:This is probably closer to Murray's value than Trae's.

This.

This trade had been discussed a lot. I think:

Murphy is needed. Key piece. Murphy and Jalen Johnson can be key Hawks pillars for many years.

Murphy + McCollum + Picks

FOR

Trae + _________

__________ can be a lot of players. Capela for example. Okongwu. Hunter.

Yeah I don’t think that happens. This trade creates as many problems as it solves and Trey is such a complimentary player to whoever we bring back next year that the value has to be a clear win. I just dont see it.

Clear win for whom?

Trae for Zion


that’s the real deal here, right?

dms269 wrote:

lordjeff05 wrote:Couple things…I can’t speak for the Pels front office but Trae has minimal appeal for me and although I believe his value is higher than Ingram’s I wouldn’t trade him for Ingram straight up because of how bad his defense is.

Murray has some appeal but I think this idea that he is better than Ingram is a reflection of recency bias. Murray has become a better, more willing shooter than BI but this is the first year he’s ever scored more points than BI and he was a worse defender than BI this year. He has been a bad defender for 3 years. I hope he can turn it around but this is a fact right now.

I think this idea that a BI/ Murray trade will take multiple firsts and a young prospect is kinda overblown.

Also a Murray trade likely requires a CJ trade too which just adds to the complication.

Anyways this one has been discussed a bunch but I think BI has become underrated here which was exacerbated by his play in the playoffs, which is ironic because Murray didn’t make the playoffs and his team has performed worse than BI’s (with or without Zion) for the entirety of the year.

In a vacuum BI likely does have more value. But you cannot look at player valuation without factoring in contracts. I think that is why many of us are saying Murray>Ingram because of BI being an expiring and likely commanding double what Murray is getting paid.

In terms of defense, Murray has been having to guard out of position more in Atlanta which isn't maximizing his strengths.

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Yeah I think that makes sense to an extent but I still don’t see the value gap being more than a pick. And I believe Dejounte can turn it around but that drop in defense started when he was still on the spurs.

Wolveswin wrote:

lordjeff05 wrote:

Wolveswin wrote:This.

This trade had been discussed a lot. I think:

Murphy is needed. Key piece. Murphy and Jalen Johnson can be key Hawks pillars for many years.

Murphy + McCollum + Picks

FOR

Trae + _________

__________ can be a lot of players. Capela for example. Okongwu. Hunter.

Yeah I don’t think that happens. This trade creates as many problems as it solves and Trey is such a complimentary player to whoever we bring back next year that the value has to be a clear win. I just dont see it.

Clear win for whom?

For the Pelicans, it’s gotta be a win for the Pelicans. I don’t think Trey is untouchable. I don’t really think anyone is untouchable. But he’s incredibly valuable and complimentary to virtuallY anyone you bring in to your team as opposed to Trae who seems to need some specific things to succeed and even then may be tapped out because of defensive limitations. There’s also the whole priority of who gets to be the alpha. I don’t think Trae comes in to nola or many other places thinking he needs to change his game up to help someone else out.

I think Trey tops out as a championship level third option who can guard his position and switch but his max ceiling is Klay Thompson. And even with that potential he’s still probably not even getting the fun max because he was a later round pick and he comes off the bench. And even that doesn’t start until 25 because he’s got one more year on the rookie scale. So in order to equal or improve the value of that.

Trae has an offensive ceiling even higher than that but his defensive ceiling is maybe what CJ is now? And getting that from what would be your second best player is a problem.

If Trey was part of a package that got you a true blue second option that fit well with Zion I’d think about it. Barring that I don’t see the Pels trading him.

dms269 wrote:In terms of defense, Murray has been having to guard out of position more in Atlanta which isn't maximizing his strengths.

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Also, and I can't stress this enough, Murray is not a good defender. Never has been. He was given credit for the Spurs' D in 2017-2018, when that was due to Danny Green and Kyle Anderson on the perimeter, Aldridge having the best defensive year of his career and Gasol having his last healthy season. Once Green and Anderson moved on and Gasol's body gave out on him, Murray looked just as bad as he does with the Hawks.

If the Hawks become a legit good defense, Murray's talents there will show again. But historically, he's not going to lead the turnaround.

dms269 wrote:This is probably closer to Murray's value than Trae's.

Is it? I have real questions as to why the Pelicans would do this

lordjeff05 wrote:

Wolveswin wrote:

lordjeff05 wrote:
Yeah I don’t think that happens. This trade creates as many problems as it solves and Trey is such a complimentary player to whoever we bring back next year that the value has to be a clear win. I just dont see it.

Clear win for whom?

For the Pelicans, it’s gotta be a win for the Pelicans. I don’t think Trey is untouchable. I don’t really think anyone is untouchable. But he’s incredibly valuable and complimentary to virtuallY anyone you bring in to your team as opposed to Trae who seems to need some specific things to succeed and even then may be tapped out because of defensive limitations. There’s also the whole priority of who gets to be the alpha. I don’t think Trae comes in to nola or many other places thinking he needs to change his game up to help someone else out.

I think Trey tops out as a championship level third option who can guard his position and switch but his max ceiling is Klay Thompson. And even with that potential he’s still probably not even getting the fun max because he was a later round pick and he comes off the bench. And even that doesn’t start until 25 because he’s got one more year on the rookie scale. So in order to equal or improve the value of that.

Trae has an offensive ceiling even higher than that but his defensive ceiling is maybe what CJ is now? And getting that from what would be your second best player is a problem.

If Trey was part of a package that got you a true blue second option that fit well with Zion I’d think about it. Barring that I don’t see the Pels trading him.

So Hawks are trading the best player - their superstar. And it needs to be a clear win for Pels?

Wolveswin wrote:

lordjeff05 wrote:

Wolveswin wrote:Clear win for whom?

For the Pelicans, it’s gotta be a win for the Pelicans. I don’t think Trey is untouchable. I don’t really think anyone is untouchable. But he’s incredibly valuable and complimentary to virtuallY anyone you bring in to your team as opposed to Trae who seems to need some specific things to succeed and even then may be tapped out because of defensive limitations. There’s also the whole priority of who gets to be the alpha. I don’t think Trae comes in to nola or many other places thinking he needs to change his game up to help someone else out.

I think Trey tops out as a championship level third option who can guard his position and switch but his max ceiling is Klay Thompson. And even with that potential he’s still probably not even getting the fun max because he was a later round pick and he comes off the bench. And even that doesn’t start until 25 because he’s got one more year on the rookie scale. So in order to equal or improve the value of that.

Trae has an offensive ceiling even higher than that but his defensive ceiling is maybe what CJ is now? And getting that from what would be your second best player is a problem.

If Trey was part of a package that got you a true blue second option that fit well with Zion I’d think about it. Barring that I don’t see the Pels trading him.

So Hawks are trading the best player - their superstar. And it needs to be a clear win for Pels?

So there are two or three separate issues here. First, generally, I don’t want Trae at all because of his defensive limitations. He’s the better play in this specific trade, I get that but his overall style of play is difficult to mesh with and build around.

Also, generally, I’m explaining the type of player you’d need to get for this to make sense for the Pels to trade Trey. I don’t think young is the type of player that makes it worth it.

And thirdly, specific to the trade, I’m not a fan because again Trae creates as many problems as he solves for this roster and that’s before factoring losing a wing defender that could mitigate some of those issues.

Zion is already difficult enough to construct a roster around. Adding Trae with his defensive limitations at the cost of assets makes filling out a contending roster damn near impossible.

If we were just trying to make the playoffs and have fun with a limited ceiling, then a Trae-Zion pairing would be entertaining. Or if Zion was more versatile, then we could maybe hide Trae. But adding Trae means we have to play a defensive big which means they can’t shoot.

Herb-Zion-non-shooting big compresses the floor and makes Zion’s and Trae’s life difficult.

dms269 wrote:This is probably closer to Murray's value than Trae's.

Maybe? But man that feels like a pretty sizable overpay for Murray especially since we know the Hawks shopped him hard this deadline and if they had gotten an offer anywhere near this, he surely was gone.

no comment

dms269 wrote:

Texas Chuck wrote:

dms269 wrote:This is probably closer to Murray's value than Trae's.

Maybe? But man that feels like a pretty sizable overpay for Murray especially since we know the Hawks shopped him hard this deadline and if they had gotten an offer anywhere near this, he surely was gone.

You do realize that my statement and your statement can both be right? This offer likely falls in between the value of Murray and Trae, I just believe it is closer to the Murray end than the Trae end. We know your stance with most Hawks player.

Yes I do.