RealGM

Miami trades Rozier/Duncan/Orlando/15/2029 1st/2031 1st
Receives Mitchell & Strus

Phoenix trades Beal/22
Receives Rozier/Jarrett Allen

Cleveland trades- Mitchell/Strus
Receives Beal/Duncan/Orlando/15/22/2029 & 2031 1st from Miami

Miami pairs Bam with his bestie Mitchell and gets back Strus. Make one last run with Jimmy.

Phoenix- Trades Beal for two positions of need. 3 SG experiment was a disaster. Booker is hopefully going back to SG. Team needs a real PG & Beal can’t play SF, so to the bench he goes.

Cleveland- Obviously Mitchell wants out. They also need to move Mobley to center. They get Beal to pair with Garland and can find a better fitting big to pair with Mobley from the draft. Also gets off the last 2 years of Strus deal. Mitchell to Beal is a drop off but they get to maximize Mobley at center and 4 1sts.

The holdup will obviously be Beal’s dumb NTC. Don’t know if he can find a better situation as a starter than this. East is so weak he may can sneak into ASG as a reserve.

Miami
PG Mitchell
SG Herro
SF Jimmy
PF Jaime
C Bam

Phoenix
PG Rozier
SG Booker
SF Royce
PF KD
C Allen

Cleveland
PG Garland
SG Beal
SF Levert
PF draft
C Mobley

Miami needs to give much more and the Beal for Allen part just isn’t happening.

DowJones wrote:Miami needs to give much more and the Beal for Allen part just isn’t happening.

Three first round picks is enough and you can argue about some of the pieces, but if we're giving three firsts, I don't see us including JJJ or Jovic. Unless he agrees to an extension, your leverage isn't all you think. Yes, you can go elsewhere, but I think you'll find teams are similarly unwilling to cash up.

I agree on the rest though. Not a good deal

BBallFreak wrote:

DowJones wrote:Miami needs to give much more and the Beal for Allen part just isn’t happening.

Three first round picks is enough and you can argue about some of the pieces, but if we're giving three firsts, I don't see us including JJJ or Jovic. Unless he agrees to an extension, your leverage isn't all you think. Yes, you can go elsewhere, but I think you'll find teams are similarly unwilling to cash up.

I agree on the rest though. Not a good deal

I disagree with this a lot!
Cleveland absolutely getting robbed here. And Beal has large negative value now!

The Beal for an asset part, let alone a really good Allen, makes this DOA.

I do agree that CLE may not have a lot of options if Mitchell makes it clear where he will or won’t re-sign. I think MIA is a likely spot and a good fit, but Dame was also already assigned a locker when MIL swooped in. Riley better not overplay his hand again unless he likes watching 2nd round on TV.

BBallFreak wrote:

DowJones wrote:Miami needs to give much more and the Beal for Allen part just isn’t happening.

Three first round picks is enough and you can argue about some of the pieces, but if we're giving three firsts, I don't see us including JJJ or Jovic. Unless he agrees to an extension, your leverage isn't all you think. Yes, you can go elsewhere, but I think you'll find teams are similarly unwilling to cash up.

I agree on the rest though. Not a good deal

I would much rather Cleveland go to Brooklyn and get those Phoenix picks with Cam Johnson. If the best Cleveland can get for Mitchell this summer is a couple of Miami first rounders and Duncan Robinson/Terry Rozier then I am comfortable keeping Donovan and seeing what the team can do with a new coach.

If I am the Cavs then I wouldn't even begin a conversation with Miami unless the core of the deal is Herro/JJJ/2029 unprotected 1st/2031 unprotected 1st. After that we can debate on swaps, Jovic, or the 15th pick. I would be ok with Miami keeping Jovic and adding no swaps with the draft rights of pick# 15 coming back to Cleveland.

Miami just doesn't have much in the way of assets when you remember that they are a play-in team that won't put their 2 best players on the table.

PhillyNj wrote:

BBallFreak wrote:

DowJones wrote:Miami needs to give much more and the Beal for Allen part just isn’t happening.

Three first round picks is enough and you can argue about some of the pieces, but if we're giving three firsts, I don't see us including JJJ or Jovic. Unless he agrees to an extension, your leverage isn't all you think. Yes, you can go elsewhere, but I think you'll find teams are similarly unwilling to cash up.

I agree on the rest though. Not a good deal

I disagree with this a lot!
Cleveland absolutely getting robbed here. And Beal has large negative value now!

No, I agree with you on most of this.

My point was that three first round picks, a starting caliber point guard, and one of the best three point shooters in the game is kind of a lot for a flight risk. Beal for Allen absolutely destroys this deal for Cleveland, but you shouldn't take the Miami deal either - not without flipping those players for assets that fit what you want.

This is basically S&T value for Mitchell which raises the question why is it happening in the summer of 2024.

As for the Allen part, that's a pretty big miss on value.

BBallFreak wrote:

PhillyNj wrote:

BBallFreak wrote:Three first round picks is enough and you can argue about some of the pieces, but if we're giving three firsts, I don't see us including JJJ or Jovic. Unless he agrees to an extension, your leverage isn't all you think. Yes, you can go elsewhere, but I think you'll find teams are similarly unwilling to cash up.

I agree on the rest though. Not a good deal

I disagree with this a lot!
Cleveland absolutely getting robbed here. And Beal has large negative value now!

No, I agree with you on most of this.

My point was that three first round picks, a starting caliber point guard, and one of the best three point shooters in the game is kind of a lot for a flight risk. Beal for Allen absolutely destroys this deal for Cleveland, but you shouldn't take the Miami deal either - not without flipping those players for assets that fit what you want.

It’s really not a lot. Like at all. If Miami really thinks that is a lot to give up for Mitchell, then Miami isn’t even in the conversation this summer. Like jbk said, maybe next summer in a sign and trade or maybe near the trade deadline if things still look rocky and no better offers emerge.

Keep in mind that future unprotected first round picks from Miami have a depressed value because Miami is a destination city where players will always force their way to.

DowJones wrote:Keep in mind that future unprotected first round picks from Miami have a depressed value because Miami is a destination city where players will always force their way to.

They force their way here because we're well run, but that's in jeopardy. Pat Riley is going to retire soon. The destination thing is ridiculous. Players don't force their way to a destination city if they're run like crap. Miami is going to lose Butler and Riley before 2029 so you honestly have no clue what we'll be.

I don’t like this for Cleveland. Phoenix and Miami need to add value that goes to Cleveland or figure it out with out send Allen.

BBallFreak wrote:

DowJones wrote:Keep in mind that future unprotected first round picks from Miami have a depressed value because Miami is a destination city where players will always force their way to.

They force their way here because we're well run, but that's in jeopardy. Pat Riley is going to retire soon. The destination thing is ridiculous. Players don't force their way to a destination city if they're run like crap. Miami is going to lose Butler and Riley before 2029 so you honestly have no clue what we'll be.

I just strongly disagree with your opinion on why players force their way to Miami. I think it is primarily about living in Miami during the winter. You think it is primarily Heat culture. We will agree to disagree on that one.

I just think it will be tough for Miami to even get in the conversation if they refuse to put JJJ on the table. Cleveland will rightfully demand that he be included. I know Cleveland won't value Rozier/Duncan beyond simple salary filler, so those 3 draft picks are carrying all of the weight--and I just think there are other teams that can easily beat that offer.

DowJones wrote:

BBallFreak wrote:

DowJones wrote:Keep in mind that future unprotected first round picks from Miami have a depressed value because Miami is a destination city where players will always force their way to.

They force their way here because we're well run, but that's in jeopardy. Pat Riley is going to retire soon. The destination thing is ridiculous. Players don't force their way to a destination city if they're run like crap. Miami is going to lose Butler and Riley before 2029 so you honestly have no clue what we'll be.

I just strongly disagree with your opinion on why players force their way to Miami. I think it is primarily about living in Miami during the winter. You think it is primarily Heat culture. We will agree to disagree on that one.

That's why players flocked to New York for so many years, because in spite of their (previously) terrible location, people wanted to be there. Right? Right?

I just think it will be tough for Miami to even get in the conversation if they refuse to put JJJ on the table. Cleveland will rightfully demand that he be included. I know Cleveland won't value Rozier/Duncan beyond simple salary filler, so those 3 draft picks are carrying all of the weight--and I just think there are other teams that can easily beat that offer.

We may have to include him for a bigger fish, I agree. But unless he agrees to extend, Mitchell's size as a fish decreases exponentially. We won't pay for a player who can leave.

Why is it that every trade that involves cleveland has them getting the ass end of it? What do we with a crappy ass beal with the worst contract in the league? With duncan Robinson. Who also has the worst contract in the league. These ideas are complete ass

BBallFreak wrote:

DowJones wrote:

BBallFreak wrote:They force their way here because we're well run, but that's in jeopardy. Pat Riley is going to retire soon. The destination thing is ridiculous. Players don't force their way to a destination city if they're run like crap. Miami is going to lose Butler and Riley before 2029 so you honestly have no clue what we'll be.

I just strongly disagree with your opinion on why players force their way to Miami. I think it is primarily about living in Miami during the winter. You think it is primarily Heat culture. We will agree to disagree on that one.

That's why players flocked to New York for so many years, because in spite of their (previously) terrible location, people wanted to be there. Right? Right?

I just think it will be tough for Miami to even get in the conversation if they refuse to put JJJ on the table. Cleveland will rightfully demand that he be included. I know Cleveland won't value Rozier/Duncan beyond simple salary filler, so those 3 draft picks are carrying all of the weight--and I just think there are other teams that can easily beat that offer.

We may have to include him for a bigger fish, I agree. But unless he agrees to extend, Mitchell's size as a fish decreases exponentially. We won't pay for a player who can leave.

I don't have any interest in debating Heat Culture with a Miami fan. My opinion is that the main reason players want to play for the Heat is because living in Miami during the NBA season is really nice and that will continue to make them a destination city after Riley has left. That is why I don't value Miami's unprotected 1's in 2029 and 2031 as much as I would a team like Indiana or New Orleans.

I actually agree with your second part. The only reason Miami would trade for Mitchell at all is with the understanding that he would stay long-term. That assumption is baked in when I mention Herro/JJJ/2029 unprotected 1/2031 unprotected 1 would have to be the core of any offer if I am running the Cavs.

I mean its pretty clearly both. We can't pretend the city doesn't matter because it definitely does. We also can't pretend that Riley, Spo, etc don't matter because they definitely do.

We saw the Nets bring in competent management and play competent basketball and then the stars started coming to Brooklyn. Same with the Knicks. They finally got competent and Brunson didn't consider any other teams. Clippers got Ballmer and suddenly they weren't just that other team in LA. This stuff matters too.

No matter how well run some teams are they can't compete with Miami, LA, NY. But also no matter how alluring your city is if your organization is incompetent you have to count on Lebron just saying I want to be a Laker and let him make you relevant again.

Phoenix can’t get Allen without including one of their two stars. Not saying Allen is worth either..

Cleveland just tossing in Allen and Strus for no reason in a Mitchell trade feels unlikely..

Miami part - I think in a Mitchell trade, Miami really needs to send both Herro and Rozier to clear enough salary.. I think JJJ is needed as well, but maybe you can do it without him. Herro to Orlando, Rozier and 4-5 firsts to Cleveland. Or that Cleveland package to a fourth team for the win Cleveland wants.. Or the picks and Caris for a wing and keep Rozier anyways.

I'm ALL for a Mitchell trade, but this is just... NO... Those picks are super "meh"! Swap out Allen for Niang would be closer for that return, but then why would PHX want Niang?

Phoenix needs to add value to move $50M Beal. They don’t have much to add, but I would not take Beal’s contract vs production.

CLE isn't taking that Beal contract unless there's so much value packed with it's spilling out of their hands.