RealGM

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10120082-a-4-team-trade-to-convince-pat-riley-to-trade-jimmy-butler

Heat get:
• Donovan Mitchell (via Cavaliers)
• Kyle Kuzma (via Wizards)
• $13.4 million trade exception (Jimmy Butler)
• $2.5 million trade exception (Nikola Jovic)
• $2.3 million trade exception (Tyler Herro)
Cavaliers get:
• Tyler Herro (via Heat)
• No. 15 pick (via Heat)
• 2026 Phoenix Suns second-round pick (via
Wizards)
• 2028 LA Clippers first-round pick (via 76ers)
• 2030 first-round pick (via Heat)
• $6.4 million trade exception (Mitchell)
• $2.6 million trade exception (Ty Jerome)
Sixers get:
• Jimmy Butler (via Heat)
Wizards get:
• Paul Reed Jr. (via 76ers)
• Nikola Jovic (via Heat)
• Ty Jerome (via Cavaliers)
• No. 16 pick (via 76ers)
• 2026 (TBD) first-round pick (via 76ers)
• $23.5 million trade exception (Kuzma)

Seems like a pretty light return for the Cavs, a bit heavy for the Wizards. Thoughts?

SkyHook wrote:.

Please include your reasoning as per board policy. I realize it was someone else's idea, but we still need that.

Thanks!

Yeah agree…why do the Wizards get all the value…for giving up Kuzma?
Cavs need some of or most of that.

The Wizards getting two genuinely great firsts for a guy who has had -1.0 Offensive Win Shares... Over the last five seasons...

Kuzma should be valued as a strongly negative contract, but for some reason, teams think he's very valuable and I don't get it.

brackdan70 wrote:Yeah agree…why do the Wizards get all the value…for giving up Kuzma?
Cavs need some of or most of that.

I don't think Washington needs to be in this deal

This seems like fanfic proposed the reporter who covers the Heat tbh.

So, Miami gives up Butler, Jovic, Herro, and two first round picks for Mitchell and Kuzma? This feels like an overpay to me. It feels like we're valuing Herro as an extreme negative, Kuzma as a positive, and Mitchell as significantly more valuable than Butler.

I'm not seeing it. Take Jovic and one of the picks out and it feels more reasonable, but as is I feel like we're getting robbed.

I think some people are misreading the format?

Washington gets Reed, 16th and Jovic for Kuzma. Its good. Really good. But not great?

Cavs need another first from Miami, and probably don’t want to end up with Herro. But I don’t think they’d kill the deal over it. They can flip him or Caris after this deal for a wing.

3 1sts and giving up on a Max free agent from Philly along with a decent backup pf/center.
It may be Butlers value but the losing of the max free agent plan is a cost born by Philly and not received by Miami, which makes it hard to say yes.

But more than anything this value of Kuzma looks wild to me. Way more than he is worth by a 1st and Jovic.

jayjaysee wrote:I think some people are misreading the format?

Washington gets Reed, 16th and Jovic for Kuzma. Its good. Really good. But not great?

Cavs need another first from Miami, and probably don’t want to end up with Herro. But I don’t think they’d kill the deal over it. They can flip him or Caris after this deal for a wing.

They also get the 26 1st Philly owns. And all that cap space.

HartfordWhalers wrote:3 1sts and giving up on a Max free agent from Philly along with a decent backup pf/center.
It may be Butlers value but the losing of the max free agent plan is a cost born by Philly and not received by Miami, which makes it hard to say yes.

Yeah, I think this is the problem with the trade.

The trade would make sense if Philly was sending out bad salary for Butler (and much of that salary was being absorbed by the Wizards), but in this scenario, Philly is giving up all the assets they have plus all the cap room. Obviously, signing Paul George or OG Anunoby would be MUCH more preferable.

HartfordWhalers wrote:

jayjaysee wrote:I think some people are misreading the format?

Washington gets Reed, 16th and Jovic for Kuzma. Its good. Really good. But not great?

Cavs need another first from Miami, and probably don’t want to end up with Herro. But I don’t think they’d kill the deal over it. They can flip him or Caris after this deal for a wing.

They also get the 26 1st Philly owns. And all that cap space.

FWIW, that pick looks like it'll be the OKC pick, so probably the 29th or 30th pick in the draft. Basically, a second rounder. I think one mid-first and one late-first is the value for Kuzma on his good contract. It's what Dallas was rumored to have offered. The overpay part is that the Wizards are also landing Jovic and are not eating much bad salary.

jayjaysee wrote:I think some people are misreading the format?

Washington gets Reed, 16th and Jovic for Kuzma. Its good. Really good. But not great?

Cavs need another first from Miami, and probably don’t want to end up with Herro. But I don’t think they’d kill the deal over it. They can flip him or Caris after this deal for a wing.

I'd 100% kill the deal over Herro. The deal isn't good for the Cavs to begin with so it wouldn't be difficult to do.

I feel like people are ignoring the fact that the Herro-as-an-asset debate happened last summer, when the Blazers didn't want Herro either, the Heat shopped him, and his market was soft.

HartfordWhalers wrote:

jayjaysee wrote:I think some people are misreading the format?

Washington gets Reed, 16th and Jovic for Kuzma. Its good. Really good. But not great?

Cavs need another first from Miami, and probably don’t want to end up with Herro. But I don’t think they’d kill the deal over it. They can flip him or Caris after this deal for a wing.

They also get the 26 1st Philly owns. And all that cap space.

So I was right some people are misreading the format

Yeah. They don’t really deserve cap space or Jovic.

If we assume that OKC is picking 29, and we assume 29 is the. Instead a second rounder, can we also assume a Dallas pick is 2 2nds ?

jbk1234 wrote:I feel like people are ignoring the fact that the Herro-as-an-asset debate happened last summer, when the Blazers didn't want Herro either, the Heat shopped him, and his market was soft.

And his value would seem to have gone down since.

Or put another the ‘two picks’ from a team drafting 25 now might be both combined worth a single mid term pick.
And might have had not just lotto protection but also dumping a multi year bad contract included.

I wouldn’t at all have Kuzma value as a mid 1st a late 1st a 1st rounder prospect, and cap relief.
I think stopping that at just 16 looks right to me, and I would not be a fan of Reed and 16 for Kuzma at all for instance.
But maybe Washington will really get all that. Will be fascinating to see.

Texas Chuck wrote:

jbk1234 wrote:I feel like people are ignoring the fact that the Herro-as-an-asset debate happened last summer, when the Blazers didn't want Herro either, the Heat shopped him, and his market was soft.

And his value would seem to have gone down since.

Which begs the question; why would we include him in a trade with Butler? Why would we kill the Butler value just to move Herro?

It seems to me, the logical step is to cut Washington out and do something around Butler, Mitchell, and Philly.

BBallFreak wrote:]Which begs the question; why would we include him in a trade with Butler? Why would we kill the Butler value just to move Herro?

I'm not arguing the Heat should. I'm commenting on value. Direction is always much more subjective.

I believe the market for Herro is soft. That felt more pertinent that the trade in the OP which is honestly just a giant mess.

Washington just complicates things.

Cleveland Trades: Donovan Mitchell
Philly Trades: Draft rights to 16th pick, 2028 LAC unprotected 1st
Miami Trades: Butler, Jovic, 2030 unprotected 1st

-Butler to Philly, Mitchell to Miami, and all the other stuff to Cleveland

That is a trade package for Cleveland that might beat a Brooklyn package that features 2 PHX first rounders or a package of Rui/Reaves/draft rights to #17, and 2029/2031 unprotected 1st rounders.

edit* I would actually push for Herro to be added as a Cavs fan. Cleveland will be in desperate need of scoring if they trade Mitchell and I don't think there is any chance the Cavs do better than Herro for 3 years/$93 million in the free agent market. Heck, we are more likely to end up with another Niang.