RealGM

Wolveswin wrote:I still like my trade…

To Pistons: Franz Wagner + Black + #18

To Magic: Cade + Ausar + Rights to Sarr

Pistons: get proven centerpiece to build around
Duren
Stewart
Wagner
Ivey
Black | Sasser
Plus #18

Magic: complete their lineup with Cade as final piece
WCJ | Sarr (when ready)
Banchero | Isaac
Thompson | Jett | Houstan
Suggs
Cade | Anthony
Plus a ton of assets still.

Wagner > Cade > Thompson > Black

Putting this idea to the board for a vote.

Wow, this isn't even close. Pistons wouldn't move Cade for Wagner straight up let alone toss in the #1 pick this year and the #5 pick from last year.

Billl wrote:Wow, this isn't even close. Pistons wouldn't move Cade for Wagner straight up let alone toss in the #1 pick this year and the #5 pick from last year.

And leave out the fact, magic are including the #6 pick from last year and the #18 pick this year - but you do you.

Need to emphasize that the Pistons are giving the assumed #1 overall pick in addition to Cade and Ausar. When I saw it in the original thread I had to do a triple take and still assumed I was reading it wrong lol

BDM22 wrote:Need to emphasize that the Pistons are giving the assumed #1 overall pick in addition to Cade and Ausar. When I saw it in the original thread I had to do a triple take and still assumed I was reading it wrong lol

Ugh. You make this exhausting. Leaving out parts of the trade because you don’t like it.

Wagner > Cade (that would be majority and universal)

Black = Thompson (each team will like their rookie)

#18 for Sarr SWAP (which doesn’t have to be #1 overall)

Terrible

Wolveswin wrote:

BDM22 wrote:Need to emphasize that the Pistons are giving the assumed #1 overall pick in addition to Cade and Ausar. When I saw it in the original thread I had to do a triple take and still assumed I was reading it wrong lol

Ugh. You make this exhausting. Leaving out parts of the trade because you don’t like it.

Wagner > Cade (that would be majority and universal)

Black = Thompson (each team will like their rookie)

#18 for Sarr SWAP (which doesn’t have to be #1 overall)

I don’t value Wagner over Cade.

Wolveswin wrote:

BDM22 wrote:Need to emphasize that the Pistons are giving the assumed #1 overall pick in addition to Cade and Ausar. When I saw it in the original thread I had to do a triple take and still assumed I was reading it wrong lol

Ugh. You make this exhausting. Leaving out parts of the trade because you don’t like it.

Wagner > Cade (that would be majority and universal)

Black = Thompson (each team will like their rookie)

#18 for Sarr SWAP (which doesn’t have to be #1 overall)

Wagner and Cade could be argued either way. I do not think that Franz would be the "universal" response if you asked GM's today who they would take to build around. Regardless, that gap (if it were to exist) is nowhere close to the gap between #18 and #1 overall.

Side note: If Ant Black = Ausar (your opinion) and each team "likes their rookie", why include them in the deal?

Helsbyte wrote:

Wolveswin wrote:

BDM22 wrote:Need to emphasize that the Pistons are giving the assumed #1 overall pick in addition to Cade and Ausar. When I saw it in the original thread I had to do a triple take and still assumed I was reading it wrong lol

Ugh. You make this exhausting. Leaving out parts of the trade because you don’t like it.

Wagner > Cade (that would be majority and universal)

Black = Thompson (each team will like their rookie)

#18 for Sarr SWAP (which doesn’t have to be #1 overall)

I don’t value Wagner over Cade.

You should.

I think the 18 for Sarr swap is a bit too far, however.

Wagner and Black for Cade and Ausar is a fair deal in a vacuum.

But we also know both teams would rather just keep their own young guys, because we're fans and we all do it. And we also know actual GM's would never take a risk like this.

these two teams have realistic deals that make sense... This isn’t one.

I think I’d take Wagner over Cade. But for Detroit, who needs a superstar.. You have to keep squinting and cross your fingers for Cade.

BDM22 wrote:

Wolveswin wrote:

BDM22 wrote:Need to emphasize that the Pistons are giving the assumed #1 overall pick in addition to Cade and Ausar. When I saw it in the original thread I had to do a triple take and still assumed I was reading it wrong lol

Ugh. You make this exhausting. Leaving out parts of the trade because you don’t like it.

Wagner > Cade (that would be majority and universal)

Black = Thompson (each team will like their rookie)

#18 for Sarr SWAP (which doesn’t have to be #1 overall)

Wagner and Cade could be argued either way. I do not think that Franz would be the "universal" response if you asked GM's today who they would take to build around. Regardless, that gap is nowhere close to the gap between #18 and #1 overall.

Side note: If Ant Black = Ausar (your opinion) and each team "likes their rookie", why include them in the deal?

My guess would be the reason for those 2 swapping is to try and keep depth charts balanced. But we already know that Detroit's front office preferred Ausar to Black, because just last year they had a chance to take either and choose one over the other. Its possible they liked both and just liked Ausar more. And maybe 1 year of them playing has changed their minds, but maybe it hasn't. So I dont think Detroit would just say thats an even swap for them.

And overall I think even if Wagner is valued over Cade (which I dont think would be as universal a thought as is presented), the difference between the 2 isn't nearly as much as the 18th for Sarr swap (which seems like it would need to be an early lottery pick right now).

Wolveswin wrote:

BDM22 wrote:Need to emphasize that the Pistons are giving the assumed #1 overall pick in addition to Cade and Ausar. When I saw it in the original thread I had to do a triple take and still assumed I was reading it wrong lol

Ugh. You make this exhausting. Leaving out parts of the trade because you don’t like it.

Wagner > Cade (that would be majority and universal)

Black = Thompson (each team will like their rookie)

#18 for Sarr SWAP (which doesn’t have to be #1 overall)

Cade > wagner Tompson>>black. Sarr>>>>#18. Again, not even remotely in the right ballpark.

schaffy wrote:

BDM22 wrote:

Wolveswin wrote:Ugh. You make this exhausting. Leaving out parts of the trade because you don’t like it.

Wagner > Cade (that would be majority and universal)

Black = Thompson (each team will like their rookie)

#18 for Sarr SWAP (which doesn’t have to be #1 overall)

Wagner and Cade could be argued either way. I do not think that Franz would be the "universal" response if you asked GM's today who they would take to build around. Regardless, that gap is nowhere close to the gap between #18 and #1 overall.

Side note: If Ant Black = Ausar (your opinion) and each team "likes their rookie", why include them in the deal?

My guess would be the reason for those 2 swapping is to try and keep depth charts balanced. But we already know that Detroit's front office preferred Ausar to Black, because just last year they had a chance to take either and choose one over the other. Its possible they liked both and just liked Ausar more. And maybe 1 year of them playing has changed their minds, but maybe it hasn't. So I dont think Detroit would just say thats an even swap for them.

And overall I think even if Wagner is valued over Cade (which I dont think would be as universal a thought as is presented), the difference between the 2 isn't nearly as much as the 18th for Sarr swap (which seems like it would need to be an early lottery pick right now).

Yeah, I don't buy the depth chart thing with Ausar/Black as they can really both function in similar positions at 6-6/6-7 and with their play style.

Really I bring it up because Wolveswin had original put in the Ausar/Black swap as an additional value add for Orlando, but seems to be trying to back off of the notion that there's a value add there now by trying to say they're equal value after the response of the #1 to #18 swap.

And let's be clear, if the deal is "Sarr", he is by far the consensus #1 overall pick and has been for some time. This "Right to Sarr, but doesn't have to be #1" thing is not a helpful addition as it's not likely that he would make it to #2.

Wolveswin wrote:

BDM22 wrote:Need to emphasize that the Pistons are giving the assumed #1 overall pick in addition to Cade and Ausar. When I saw it in the original thread I had to do a triple take and still assumed I was reading it wrong lol

Ugh. You make this exhausting. Leaving out parts of the trade because you don’t like it.

Wagner > Cade (that would be majority and universal)

Black = Thompson (each team will like their rookie)

#18 for Sarr SWAP (which doesn’t have to be #1 overall)

I have Cade > Wagner, by a good amount.

Thompson > Black, also by a fair margin.

The pick swap is excessive.

Wolveswin wrote:

BDM22 wrote:Need to emphasize that the Pistons are giving the assumed #1 overall pick in addition to Cade and Ausar. When I saw it in the original thread I had to do a triple take and still assumed I was reading it wrong lol

Ugh. You make this exhausting. Leaving out parts of the trade because you don’t like it.

Wagner > Cade (that would be majority and universal)

Black = Thompson (each team will like their rookie)

#18 for Sarr SWAP (which doesn’t have to be #1 overall)

You don't speak for the majority.

Plenty of people, myself included would have Cade > Wagner

This is a pretty terrible trade IMO value wise.

If you look at the players involved, I don’t think it would be the Pistons owing pick value back, let alone pick value to the tune of a pick swap after winning the lottery.

BDM22 wrote:

Wolveswin wrote:

BDM22 wrote:Need to emphasize that the Pistons are giving the assumed #1 overall pick in addition to Cade and Ausar. When I saw it in the original thread I had to do a triple take and still assumed I was reading it wrong lol

Ugh. You make this exhausting. Leaving out parts of the trade because you don’t like it.

Wagner > Cade (that would be majority and universal)

Black = Thompson (each team will like their rookie)

#18 for Sarr SWAP (which doesn’t have to be #1 overall)

Wagner and Cade could be argued either way. I do not think that Franz would be the "universal" response if you asked GM's today who they would take to build around. Regardless, that gap (if it were to exist) is nowhere close to the gap between #18 and #1 overall.

Side note: If Ant Black = Ausar (your opinion) and each team "likes their rookie", why include them in the deal?

Because positional fit (is that not obvious). Black a backfill for Cade, Thompson for Wagner.

balsamic_ducks wrote:

Wolveswin wrote:

BDM22 wrote:Need to emphasize that the Pistons are giving the assumed #1 overall pick in addition to Cade and Ausar. When I saw it in the original thread I had to do a triple take and still assumed I was reading it wrong lol

Ugh. You make this exhausting. Leaving out parts of the trade because you don’t like it.

Wagner > Cade (that would be majority and universal)

Black = Thompson (each team will like their rookie)

#18 for Sarr SWAP (which doesn’t have to be #1 overall)

You don't speak for the majority.

Plenty of people, myself included would have Cade > Wagner

That was to be the poll. I think interesting.

I have Wagner > Cade. Easily by at least a 1st to close the gap.

Wolveswin wrote:

BDM22 wrote:

Wolveswin wrote:Ugh. You make this exhausting. Leaving out parts of the trade because you don’t like it.

Wagner > Cade (that would be majority and universal)

Black = Thompson (each team will like their rookie)

#18 for Sarr SWAP (which doesn’t have to be #1 overall)

Wagner and Cade could be argued either way. I do not think that Franz would be the "universal" response if you asked GM's today who they would take to build around. Regardless, that gap (if it were to exist) is nowhere close to the gap between #18 and #1 overall.

Side note: If Ant Black = Ausar (your opinion) and each team "likes their rookie", why include them in the deal?

Because positional fit (is that not obvious). Black a backfill for Cade, Thompson for Wagner.

Black isn't a point guard any more than Ausar is. They're both 6-6/6-7 defense-first wings that can pass a bit but aren't primary ball handlers/playmakers. There really isn't a positional factor here enough that the Pistons would consider that downgrade since Ausar could play the 2-3-4 depending on the lineup around. Just seems like another way to make the deal even more one-sided than it already is without the Black/Ausar swap.