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Not 100% sure this is legal in the new CBa but I think it is as long as it’s executed before the league year switch.

ORL gets: C Al Horford, G Jaden Springer, #30 pick in 24 draft, unprotected 26 BOS 1st, unprotected BOS 28 Bos 1st (after SA swap rights).

BOS gets: C Wendell Carter Jr.

Magic add 3 1sts to pursue their needed offensive threat. Not the best firsts obviously coming from a contender, but the volume of picks enables them more flexibility in offering their own picks for deals. If they want to pursue a star player, they can offer the draft rights to their pick this year and all of their own 25/26/27/28 1st round picks if they wanted. On the court, Horford can still be a good vet presence for a young team coming off its first playoff run. Springer is salary filler.

Boston makes a somewhat heartless move to swap the older Horford for a younger replacement. WCJ is frequently compared to Horford so it’s a good fit there too.

i think its crazy that WCJ is worth 3 1sts to you.

No for ORL...Horford was good in the 80's and a bunch of really late picks don't begin to bridge the gap...We're coming for you!

It's an overpay. Orlando should take the picks and use them to trade for a star like Trae (along with Black + their own picks).

Yeah, it’s not legal unless Boston can slide under the second apron. Which appears to require moving one of the starters.

It looks really close to ducking the apron by turning Pritchard into two true vet mins? That looks like it gets them under the 190 mark and at 14 roster spots? But not too sure on that.

It’s a nice overpay that Orlando should do. They should be trying to upgrade WCJ this summer anyways.

Not all FRP are created equal lmao.

Orlando wouldn’t entertain this unless it was contingent to another bigger trade.

This is better presented as a 3 team trade.

jayjaysee wrote:Yeah, it’s not legal unless Boston can slide under the second apron. Which appears to require moving one of the starters.

It looks really close to ducking the apron by turning Pritchard into two true vet mins? That looks like it gets them under the 190 mark and at 14 roster spots? But not too sure on that.

It’s a nice overpay that Orlando should do. They should be trying to upgrade WCJ this summer anyways.

Does it matter if they execute before the league year or not? I believe they can still aggregate salaries this year, but not sure if the rules change in pre year-end deals. Horford/Springer combined make more than WCJ this year.

Magic_Johnny12 wrote:Not all FRP are created equal lmao.

Orlando wouldn’t entertain this unless it was contingent to another bigger trade.

This is better presented as a 3 team trade.

It's definitely part of setting themselves up for a bigger trade. Acquiring BOS's '26 and '28 1st round picks allows ORL to trade the rights to their #18 pick this year (and the #30 pick I sent them) and then ALL of their own 25/26/27/28/29 1st rounders while satisfying the Stepien rule. That along with Black and Howard already on the roster of course. They also have the Denver pick to add in as well. Or they could use the BOS picks instead of the DEN picks/their own for 26 and 28, but I'm just trying to highlight the volume of picks this makes them available to trade.

Even if there isn't an immediate deal available to make this a 3-teamer, I still think it would be worth it for ORL. This sets them up extremely well. And while the BOS picks aren't as individually valuable as picks from another team, that's the same reason why other teams wouldn't give you this volume of picks.

I like WCJ as a player - obviously, I'm having my team give 3 1sts for him - but I just don't see him as valuable enough where some team is going to give you a premium asset for him. And I think he's a nominal enough piece that an overpayment in pick volume like this sets you up better for the future. And even on the court, I don't think the downgrade from the younger WCJ to the older Horford is likely to nuke your team's progress or playoff potential. I'd even argue that he could bring some mentorship to help mitigate the on court impact as well.

Godaddycurse wrote:i think its crazy that WCJ is worth 3 1sts to you.

It's just about maximizing the window they have now. The CBA rules are going to make it impossible for them to make many deals. All indications from management are that they're going to extend White and supermax Tatum. They already have Brown/Holiday/Porzingis/Pritchard extended. That's 6 playoff rotation guys locked in. Really all they need around that is one more wing and a backup big. I'm assuming they'd prioritize backup big because of KP's injury history and the flexibility to play 2 big lineups as needed. So might as well push the chips in for that role and then fill in the backup wing with a vet min ring chaser year by year (assuming they won't pay to keep Hauser).

I get the idea from a Boston perspective with Horford coming to the end, and Carter Jr. playing the same position in a similar style and being able to have him longer. I just don't think he's any better, and if Boston runs into a healthy Embiid next year in the playoffs, Horford's 20-25 mpg could be a difference maker.

Magic_Johnny12 wrote:Not all FRP are created equal lmao.

Orlando wouldn’t entertain this unless it was contingent to another bigger trade.

This is better presented as a 3 team trade.

I was going to say this exactly. I think this needs to be part of the framework because the Magic will be trading from a position of weakness if they try with picks already in hand.

Sort of as an off topic or side story here but do 30th picks have the kind of value to claim it is 3 1sts? Seems like this would be closer to 2 or 3 seconds (I assume heavy protections on the non swap pick) more so than 1sts with real value.

I don't know that Carter is better than Horford. I'm definitely not paying anything close to this to swap them

I don't know what's crazier here. The idea that a non-Orlando fan believes WCJ is worth 3 firsts (yes, likely all in the 20-30 range, but still), or that Orlando fans would actually snub their noses at this kind of offer. I'd take this package for WCJ and run. Getting two more tradeable, unprotected firsts alone is reason enough to do this.

Maybe if Orlando opens this up to a 3rd team who needs a C. Orlando has plenty picks to be dangerous if a star becomes available.

Reminds me of that one time Stevens traded Kemba during the playoffs to trade him under a lower salary figure. Not sure if the new CBA closed that loophole though.

hugepatsfan wrote:

jayjaysee wrote:Yeah, it’s not legal unless Boston can slide under the second apron. Which appears to require moving one of the starters.

It looks really close to ducking the apron by turning Pritchard into two true vet mins? That looks like it gets them under the 190 mark and at 14 roster spots? But not too sure on that.

It’s a nice overpay that Orlando should do. They should be trying to upgrade WCJ this summer anyways.

Does it matter if they execute before the league year or not? I believe they can still aggregate salaries this year, but not sure if the rules change in pre year-end deals. Horford/Springer combined make more than WCJ this year.

No. It’s not legal as of the day after the regular season. If they aggregate salaries this summer, they would hard cap themselves at the 2nd apron for the rest of this offseason, and the following season.

To clear up confusion, this CBA specifically defined that actions taken anytime after the last day of the regular season would apply toward the following season. Boston needed to aggregate before the trade deadline.

hugepatsfan wrote:

jayjaysee wrote:Yeah, it’s not legal unless Boston can slide under the second apron. Which appears to require moving one of the starters.

It looks really close to ducking the apron by turning Pritchard into two true vet mins? That looks like it gets them under the 190 mark and at 14 roster spots? But not too sure on that.

It’s a nice overpay that Orlando should do. They should be trying to upgrade WCJ this summer anyways.

Does it matter if they execute before the league year or not? I believe they can still aggregate salaries this year, but not sure if the rules change in pre year-end deals. Horford/Springer combined make more than WCJ this year.

They would be hard capped at the 2nd Apron.

I think it’s an overpay for WCJ as well. I can understand why Orlando wouldn’t mover him for this though.

Ron Swanson wrote:I don't know what's crazier here. The idea that a non-Orlando fan believes WCJ is worth 3 firsts (yes, likely all in the 20-30 range, but still), or that Orlando fans would actually snub their noses at this kind of offer. I'd take this package for WCJ and run. Getting two more tradeable, unprotected firsts alone is reason enough to do this.

This Magic fan doesn't think he is worth three first but I certainly wouldn't trade him for the 30th pick 3 times.

Ducklett wrote:

Ron Swanson wrote:I don't know what's crazier here. The idea that a non-Orlando fan believes WCJ is worth 3 firsts (yes, likely all in the 20-30 range, but still), or that Orlando fans would actually snub their noses at this kind of offer. I'd take this package for WCJ and run. Getting two more tradeable, unprotected firsts alone is reason enough to do this.

This Magic fan doesn't think he is worth three first but I certainly wouldn't trade him for the 30th pick 3 times.

Well yeah because that's not possible. But I think any smart fan would absolutely trade him for 30 and two unprotected 1sts. Even if you want to make assumptions that Boston will still be really good in 4 years. Because you never know. Weird things happen and the potential upside is worth the chance for a player like Carter. Sure maybe you end up with 3 picks in the late 20's and none of them pan out. But having two upside plays like that? Yeah a team couldn't pass on that especially not with money/picks to replace Carter after getting overpaid for him.