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Cavs - Dallas
Posted: Thu May 16, 2024 2:49 pm
by bgrep14
Cavs: Allen and Niang
Mavs: Washington, Lively, Exum, and Powell
Mavs: Get an all star center with multiple years under contract
Cavs: get a Sf/PF who can space the floor better next to Mobley and young center with upside
Re: Cavs - Dallas
Posted: Thu May 16, 2024 2:55 pm
by BeiBeau
Absolutely No.
Dallas has Gafford, Lively for a full 48 minutes right now on cheap deals(2 season from now they will cost 20 million combined). Replacing Lively(who very well could be better than Allen in 2 years) with Allen means we play Gafford what? 17 minutes a night? Hardly the best use of Gafford. And all of this is at the expense of Washington who is fantastic and Exum who is still a good piece even if he’s struggling in the playoffs.
Re: Cavs - Dallas
Posted: Thu May 16, 2024 2:59 pm
by jbk1234
I don't hate it, but Dallas is likely headed towards the WCF and is unlikely to trade PJ with no real means of replacing him.
Re: Cavs - Dallas
Posted: Thu May 16, 2024 3:06 pm
by Texas Chuck
Allen simply isn't enough of an upgrade on Gafford/Lively to give up Washington whom Dallas can't replace. Particularly since Jones may be playing himself off the team as well.
Not to mention, this mix has been really really good for Dallas. Dominant to end the regular season a game away from the Final Four against two of the title favorites. Why is Dallas changing that up?
Re: Cavs - Dallas
Posted: Thu May 16, 2024 3:11 pm
by jayjaysee
Yeah, this should be a no for Dallas. Based on value and roster needs.
Ignoring value, Dallas just does not have the assets to go find two starting forwards after doing this trade.
As PJ’s biggest fan on this forum for years, it’s nice to see him finally getting flowers…
Re: Cavs - Dallas
Posted: Thu May 16, 2024 3:30 pm
by bgrep14
I feel like opinions may change once Dallas get Joker next round.
Re: Cavs - Dallas
Posted: Thu May 16, 2024 3:35 pm
by daoneandonly
bgrep14 wrote:I feel like opinions may change once Dallas get Joker next round.
That's an if all around, neither team has won yet, lets not disrespect OKC or Minny. But this is a massive No regardless. You're 100% looking at this from a Cavs fan perspective. Lively is on a rookie deal playing very well, PJ has been everything the Mavs could hope for. They're not trading them for a guy who cant even tough it out and play to help his team in the most critical time. This trade is putrid.
Re: Cavs - Dallas
Posted: Thu May 16, 2024 3:38 pm
by Texas Chuck
bgrep14 wrote:I feel like opinions may change once Dallas get Joker next round.
You mean if Dallas can't stop the MVP? A player nobody can stop? That Rudy Gobert can't stop?
You think Allen is some Jokic stopper? And you think Dallas having zero forwards stops being an issue lol?
No. I get why you want this trade for Cleveland. Washington's addition solves more problems for the Cavs than the downgrade from Allen to Lively creates. But you have to understand the reverse is true for Dallas. And Jokic being an unstoppable force doesn't change that. At all.
Re: Cavs - Dallas
Posted: Thu May 16, 2024 3:41 pm
by jayjaysee
bgrep14 wrote:I feel like opinions may change once Dallas get Joker next round.
Does Allen match up well against Joker? Does anyone really? It is a weird bar to have. Joker is the best player in the league..
Re: Cavs - Dallas
Posted: Thu May 16, 2024 4:12 pm
by Mavrelous
Factoring age, contract and size, I think Lively alone is worth more than Allen, that's on value, on need/fit, PJ is a local DAL guy who has quickly gained popularity and fits perfectly as 2nd forward next to Luka.
Re: Cavs - Dallas
Posted: Thu May 16, 2024 4:40 pm
by mademan
Mavrelous wrote:Factoring age, contract and size, I think Lively alone is worth more than Allen, that's on value, on need/fit, PJ is a local DAL guy who has quickly gained popularity and fits perfectly as 2nd forward next to Luka.
+1. I have Lively worth more than Allen without even considering the PJ Washington addition (and Exum isnt exactly a throw in either considering the Dallas RS guard depth)
Re: Cavs - Dallas
Posted: Thu May 16, 2024 4:44 pm
by psman2
If a team is getting good production from a cheap center rotation then they very likely are going to be content there. Allen while an upgrade is just not going be a deemed as worth it for teams like that. When you can get close to his per minute production from your existing combo and close to the same paint production as well then teams are just not going to deem a trade like this worth it.
Re: Cavs - Dallas
Posted: Thu May 16, 2024 4:51 pm
by BeiBeau
psman2 wrote:If a team is getting good production from a cheap center rotation then they very likely are going to be content there. Allen while an upgrade is just not going be a deemed as worth it for teams like that. When you can get close to his per minute production from your existing combo and close to the same paint production as well then teams are just not going to deem a trade like this worth it.
Dallas has a top 3 defense in the league in large part because of this center rotation that cost us less than 20mil a year for the next 3 years. We have no reason to **** that up. And that doesn’t even consider Lively’s development.
Re: Cavs - Dallas
Posted: Thu May 16, 2024 4:52 pm
by psman2
BeiBeau wrote:psman2 wrote:If a team is getting good production from a cheap center rotation then they very likely are going to be content there. Allen while an upgrade is just not going be a deemed as worth it for teams like that. When you can get close to his per minute production from your existing combo and close to the same paint production as well then teams are just not going to deem a trade like this worth it.
Dallas has a top 3 defense in the league in large part because of this center rotation that cost us less than 20mil a year for the next 3 years. We have no reason to **** that up. And that doesn’t even consider Lively’s development.
Isn't that the jest of what I just wrote?
Re: Cavs - Dallas
Posted: Thu May 16, 2024 4:53 pm
by BeiBeau
psman2 wrote:BeiBeau wrote:psman2 wrote:If a team is getting good production from a cheap center rotation then they very likely are going to be content there. Allen while an upgrade is just not going be a deemed as worth it for teams like that. When you can get close to his per minute production from your existing combo and close to the same paint production as well then teams are just not going to deem a trade like this worth it.
Dallas has a top 3 defense in the league in large part because of this center rotation that cost us less than 20mil a year for the next 3 years. We have no reason to **** that up. And that doesn’t even consider Lively’s development.
Isn't that the jest of what I just wrote?
I’m agreeing with you? Adding more context cause Op is in the comments defending his idea.
Re: Cavs - Dallas
Posted: Thu May 16, 2024 4:56 pm
by Astaluego
Others have already explained the reasons for Dallas' No... I would say that the players are not cards and there is also an emotional/human part involved in this, I could be wrong but I think this matters for the Mavs (we still have Powell on the team) bet Lively won't be traded, especially With everything that has happened to him recently, there are several reports that he has taken refuge in the team, like his new family... I doubt that the team leaders (KI/Luka/Kidd) would approve of this... besides that the child is incredibly good... although again it is just my opinion and I could be wrong
Re: Cavs - Dallas
Posted: Thu May 16, 2024 5:07 pm
by Apz
Allen just a weak ass B. Why would u trade grwat teamplayers for a diva that pisses off his teammates for refusing to play a knockout game in the po? Not the mentality teams that want to win are looking for. To me he got the value of thj now
Re: Cavs - Dallas
Posted: Thu May 16, 2024 5:09 pm
by Texas Chuck
Apz wrote:Allen just a weak ass B.
Nope. Post without this kind of General Board hot take nonsense in the future please.
Re: Cavs - Dallas
Posted: Thu May 16, 2024 5:14 pm
by jbk1234
Texas Chuck wrote:bgrep14 wrote:I feel like opinions may change once Dallas get Joker next round.
You mean if Dallas can't stop the MVP? A player nobody can stop? That Rudy Gobert can't stop?
You think Allen is some Jokic stopper? And you think Dallas having zero forwards stops being an issue lol?
No. I get why you want this trade for Cleveland. Washington's addition solves more problems for the Cavs than the downgrade from Allen to Lively creates. But you have to understand the reverse is true for Dallas. And Jokic being an unstoppable force doesn't change that. At all.
It's a single game sample size, but the last time those two squared off, Allen frustrated him enough to get Joker tossed from the game.
The Mavs still say no. Building a roster around conference finals, or league finals matchups, is a last resort after you've been a bride's maid a couple times.
Re: Cavs - Dallas
Posted: Sat May 18, 2024 12:26 am
by Baz
That's a no. Washington has been a great acquisition, Lively is already a quality starter and still has a lot of upside. No need for the Mavs to pivot.